Gilgamesh VS Darquesse

[Monarch_Laciel]

King of Heroes VS Queen of Darkness

Backstory

Darquesse shunts into a new universe for the lols and finds herself in a timeline of Fate/stay night (so that Key) where Gil won the war (Saber was a second too slow with Avalon's activation or something). As Gil is about to sieze the Grail, Darquesse recognises it as a different type of magic to analyse, and immediately challenges him for it. Gil is rather annoyed at this girl showing up out of nowhere at his moment of victory.

Stipulations

Speed equalised

In character for both (including the given situation)

Takes place at the top of Fuyuki Temple

Votes

Darquesse:

Gilgamesh:

Inconclusive:

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

ÔÖ½ All I want for christmas is some Darquesse threads ÔÖ½

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Just wait for the new year eve, I'm gonna unleash some abomination to this wiki. Uhehehhehehe.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I'd have made Homura vs Darquesse, but "lol 2-A mind hax + drain"

... but what if... I restricted that...?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Can darq resist time stop?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Discuss it when I make the thread.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Okay.

About this match tho, perhaps I will wait for any other fate expert before making an argument.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

In character, Stay Night Gilgamesh.

He is only winning this if he can resist most of the things his opponent has and tends to use from the start, or if his opponent is stupid.

So, we can start with that.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Let's say he's a bit annoyed that this random chick showed up out of nowhere at his moment of victory.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Well, that means he is willing to fire Merodach.

Does she have have anything to kill him from the start or what is she gonna start with?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Depends on how quickly she wants to kill him.

Telekinetically atomising him would be the most likely and in-character one, but I feel she'd be a bit too interested in analysing his magical abilities to instantly kill him.

Isn't Merodach more like "survive this and you have the honour of me hitting you with Ea" than "Now I'm angry, have a Merodach"?

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Well when Shirou fought Gilgamesh in close quarters, he was using Caliburn. Gilgamesh got annoyed and decided to show him how inferior he and his sword are. Broke his sword with a single strike and unleashed the light to finish off Shirou.

Strange/Fake has "Merodach until you prove worthy of Ea".

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I'd personally think that's more along the lines of "look how great the original is compared to your version" than "now I'm angry, have a Merodach", but ok

 

[Kaltias]

I'd have made Homura vs Darquesse

Plz no

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

I would also like to know if she can respond to time hax

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

It was a combination of both, but he was pretty annoyed that Shirou refused to die under the relentless assault of his blows.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

bump

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

bumpo

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

bumpy

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

bump

 

[Delta3000]

I see this going one of two ways:

1) Gil overwhelms and kills her with his first salvo of attacks.

2) Darquess senses the attack(s) coming and manages to evade them. Then she prevents him from using GOB rendering Gil defenceless (more or less) and she can absorb him or otherwise gain his treasury/powers for herself.

 

[Embracetophats]

Full disclosure, i love either of these characters. I see Gil winning some 70% of the time though.


If you equalize speed, she becomes able to react to GoB and she can alter her density to hopefully be able to tank it.


The problem with that is the crazy ammount of different abilities that are being fired at you, including conceptual abilities, so she would probably get screwed over really quickly if she decided to just tank them.


Plus, Gil's armour is supposed to give him OP magic resistance and he can easily pull out the prototype to Astolfo's book to nullify her magic.


the only way i can see her winning in any fashion is if she spams that reality erasing black fire of hers

 

[Delta3000]

You Know she can just prevent him from using GOB as well as copy and counter the powers of any of his treasures with Nano-seconds of analysis.

 

[Embracetophats]

You Know she can just prevent him from using GOB as well as copy and counter the powers of any of his treasures with Nano-seconds of analysis.

those nanoseconds will be enough for her to die. Mevolent isnt anything special by servant standards and he managed to basically kill her by physically ripping off her head.


and when has she ever actually prevented anyone from using their powers? Vile would be the only example, but she had plenty of time to study him and even then, necromancy basically separates your magic from yourself, so it is an exception to most of the rules of conventional magic in the verse.


and the Gate of Babylon is more magical technology rather than just magic to begin with

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Malovent didn't kill her, so I don't know what you're talking about here. And he only ripped her head off when she was far weake than she is now.

I can't pull the quote here, but if you go to the darq vs AoC thread and scroll down a bit, you will find an example of her nulling someone else's magic who is neither a necromancer nor someone Darquesse had spent a lot of time studying.

And the GoB itself is magic, not magical technology.

 

[Embracetophats]

not really. the Gate is technically created by a golden key with magical abilities and the rest is just a storehouse, so it isnt "just magic". it has a very instrinsic physical and technological component to it.


besides, the Gate is described as being constantly shifting in form and content. it is far from easy to figure out. once Gil died, no other people figured out how to operate the Gate up until the modern day, despite having an actual key to it.


furthermore, NPs are crystalization of the existence of heroic spirits, which are higher dimensional entities to begin with, which exist on the throne, outside of the multiverse and even causality. Darquesse by the end of the series hasnt reached that level of existence yet, so i wouldnt bet money that she could figure something that dimensionally abstract on the fly during a battle

 

[Delta3000]

You assume she won't dodge or block whilst analysing, she has instinctively evaded attacks that can kill her before.

True but your forgetting 3 things: she barely used any magic in that fight; after reattaching her head she stomped him; her 'power increase with time' ability means she is now much stronger Malevolent, she also absorbed Argeddion and a few thousand remnants amplifying herself further.

5 times of note/that I recall; Vile as you mentioned, China's suicide spell, Fletchers teleportation (though this one might have been in the vision), the magic that held skulduggery's body together (in the vision) and the accelerator boosted sorcerer that she displayed her density increase power against.

No it isn't, there is even another magic, called Inhabiting, that uses items the same way necromancy does (I could also point out that Darquesse's own necromancy isn't stored inside an object).

No GOB (much like Erza Scarlet's, from Fairy Tale, requip magic) is, primarily, Gilgamesh's ability to summon equipment from his treasury. if Darquess prevents him using magic he will not be able use any of his items, assuming he doesn't already have them out by the time his magic is suppressed.

 

[Embracetophats]

No GOB (much like Erza Scarlet's, from Fairy Tale, requip magic) is, primarily, Gilgamesh's ability to summon equipment from his treasury. if Darquess prevents him using magic he will not be able use any of his items, assuming he doesn't already have them out by the time his magic is suppressed.

the Gate isnt 100% magic, which is what i am saying. unlike Erza's magic, it isnt even Gil's ability to begin with. to say that it is Gil's ability would be like saying Excalibur is Arturia's ability. they are weapons, objects, intended to work in a specific way. the most you can say a NP needs is basic magical energy, like putting fuel into a car. you yourself arent really required for the car to function.


and magical energy (odd, mana, prana, whatever you want to call it) is so basic to anything in existence that it basically exists everywhere. you dont even need to refine it with any sort of knowledge. For example, Excalibur fires basic life energy.


and i can name as many servants with next to null magical reserves and 0 magecraft proficiency that can use NPs as you want (honestly, just look at the japanese roster. it is the easiest example) (also some greeks, not to mention a lot of the more modern servants).


and finally, you shouldnt just think that NPs are abilities like the ones you find in any random manga that uses either magic or genetic mutations. you should before any of that consider the sort of entity that servants are, on a lore and cosmological scale and then follow that reasoning to think about whether or not Darquesse has exhibitted any feats with dealing or affecting entities of that sort.

once we get more info on what the faceless ones are exactly and you show me that he can supress their powers, i can accept the fact that she would be able to influence certain forms of NPs, but as it stands, i dont see any evidence for it. if Gil was alive and GoB was an ESP ability or something, i could believe it, but not as it stands

 

[Embracetophats]

You assume she won't dodge or block whilst analysing, she has instinctively evaded attacks that can kill her before.

True but your forgetting 3 things: she barely used any magic in that fight; after reattaching her head she stomped him; her 'power increase with time' ability means she is now much stronger Malevolent, she also absorbed Argeddion and a few thousand remnants amplifying herself further.

1- do you have any idea what fighting GoB is like? it would be like saying you can dodge every drop of rain during a storm, if it is raining from all sides, including left, right, back and front. i can get you the quotes if you want. also, pretty damn sure that darquesse knows about the god killers from tanith and other people. and said instinctual awareness of threats isnt perfect because she didnt react to the magic draining gun that Mevolent later developed until she got a big wake up call as to how dangerous the thing was and she also thought that fighting a creature that she knew for a fact was immune to magic, with years in advance (and that didnt have any issues negating pre-Valkyrie separation Darquesse's magic, which the book pushes forwards as being her at her peak in the story) and that gave her significant trouble was a good idea.


2- she didnt use much magic after she literally tried to kill the guy by snapping her fingers and breaking all his bones. afterwards, he came at her with a sword so relentlessly that she couldnt spare the focus to use magic (same with the scepter of the ancients in the final battle. she was so busy dodging single attacks that she couldnt counter in any fashion). now compare that to the 360 degree continuous downpour of attacks from the gate of babylon


3- i re-read all the darquess scenes a couple of months back and she didnt absorb Argedion. she killed him (almost in a surprise attack fashion) when he didnt have most of his power and couldnt defend himself. she didnt absorb him. she just killed him.


4- the remnants are hard to quantify. we know they granted her memories and knowlege, but a few minutes after eating them she was described as either not being able to kill 2 faceless ones (which mind you, they can get one-shotted by god-killers and at the start of the fight, before eating the remnants and tiring herself out with the fight, she easily broke at least one of them, so you can argue that she wouldnt even be as strong as she was at the start of the fight) or as getting bitchstomped by amped ville and melacholia, which i wouldnt put at servant level in regards to physical feats. either way, the remnants werent a significant boost

 

[Embracetophats]

ÔÖ½ All I want for christmas is some Darquesse threads ÔÖ½

>not desiring for more threads regarding best spandex girl Lethe


you bloody heathen!


also, i want to private chat with you in regards to other posts i have seen from you. please tell me when you are available and remind me how to do it in the VS wiki. thank you

 

[Delta3000]

Seriously? servants need their masters magical energy to even exist and you say them and their abilities not 100% magical. Darquess has easily defeated spiritual entities before; the obvious ones being the remnants who are literally evil disembodied souls and then there are the Jitter girls who are a trio of intangible (or at least semi-tangible), size shifting, possibly demonic children that can **** with your mind (or soul, I forget) just by touching you. So I'm pretty sure that a servant wouldn't be an unsolvable problem for her. She can fly (potentially shadow walk) and with speed equalised it should make dodging a bit easier. Gil also has rather poor aim given that most of his weapons miss. and what's stopping Darquess deflecting or destroying his weapons with her TK and flames.

 

[Embracetophats]

Seriously? servants need their masters magical energy to even exist and you say them and their abilities not 100% magical.

The servants need the mana.


the weapons they carry, not necessarily. NPs are just weird like that


and the jitter girls are, from an ability standpoint, basically Phantoms, which are 90% discount servants. the remnants are really just servant snacks.


servants are basically avatars of the collective human uncounscious and human history and civilization. they arent anything as simple as those beings you mentioned

 

[Delta3000]

The only weirdly real NP I know of is Avalon and the other items used as catalysts for the summoning's and only a few of those were weapons.

So the magically generated fictional characters are not magical (unlike the creatures you say are discount servants) so Darquess's ability to control magic is useless; is that what you are saying.

 

[Embracetophats]

The only weirdly real NP I know of is Avalon and the other items used as catalysts for the summoning's and only a few of those were weapons.

So the magically generated fictional characters are not magical (unlike the creatures you say are discount servants) so Darquess's ability to control magic is useless; is that what you are saying.

any sort of NP that can remain in the world would qualify honestly.


look, before i go through the trouble of relating nasuverse cosmology to dereke landy's verse concepts, you need to actually reply to my previous points.


peak darquesse (in both peaks) couldnt use magic against Mevolent and Valkyria because she was too busy dedicating 100% of her focus towards reactively dodging their frontal, 1V1 attacks.


you tell me how she would even deal with 360 degree weapons of similar caliber flying at her with far greater speed that any of the attacks she had to dodge in her verse did and after that we can move on to other things.


the black fire excuse wont work because then, what was keeping her from using it on mevolent, which was the slower, by far easier to manage of the 2 situations?

 

[Delta3000]

Darquess's peak was during the battle of Roarhaven not when she first fought malevolent, I mean at that point she hadn't even developed any of her haxes. Speed is equalized so saying Gil's attacks are faster than anything she had to deal with, whilst true is irrelevant. I do agree that a GOB barrage will be a problem for Darquess, it's literally how i said Gil would win this in my first comment on this thread.

 

[Embracetophats]

Darquess's peak was during the battle of Roarhaven not when she first fought malevolent, I mean at that point she hadn't even developed any of her haxes.


>the book constantly pushes the idea that she isnt as strong without Valkerye, even if she develops more skills. by the logic that the book itself pushes, she would be stronger against Mevolent, when viewed under a certain perspective.


and speed equalization shouldnt even be a factor here. the speed is equalized with Gil, not the GoB and even then, the number of attacks is too high for the speed to help.


let us say you and me have the same speed, but i have a machine gun. a whole lot of good having the same speed as me will do to you when it comes to dodging or reacting to those bullets

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Embrace. Heroic Spirits are not the "avatars of the collective human unconscious". The closest thing to that would be the counter guardians, and even that definition of them is incorrect. And Gil isn't a counter guardian. Heroic Spirits are heroes (by a very loose definition in some cases) who have their souls preserved in the Throne of Heroes, and the Grail War servants (including the Gilgamesh here) are artificial copies of those souls. Gil is certainly not some conceptual being

Additionally, while Darq may be unlikely to null the magic inherent to weapons from the gate, she can still make Gil unable to open the gate in the first place by observing, precogging, hijacking and smothering the mana/magic he uses to open it, because it is his own mana being used to activate the key/gate, not the magical power of the key.

You can PM me on my fanfic account. It has the same name as this one

 

[FDrybob]

Darquesse wins due to magic nullification and other reasons above. Plus, Gil will never use his full power when in character unless he either hugely respects his enemy, is extremely infuriated, or thinks there's no other way. He'd never use his winning moves first. I cannot stress this enough in vs battles with Gil. Even if he knows a way to win, he's unlikely to use it right away, and considering how the chances are already in Darquesse's favor, she gets my vote.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Embrace, also, while Darq does say that she is weaker in the reflection as opposed to when she is part of Valkyrie, this reduction in power is quickly overwhelmed by her growth rate, and serves only as a plot point to keep Val as a key figure.

And speed being equal would affect Gil's weapons as well as him