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GER VS Yukari Yakumo

Since Giorno's willpower manip doesn't work like it used to anymore, Yukari doesn't immediately get incapped

Not voting for now, will wait for further arguments
 
Actually, I do believe GER's infinite will need to be downgraded. The "moving in place without time" is not enough as of a CRT some time ago.

Anyway, speed equal seems to be the way to go. I will just be checking this out.
 
>not enough as of a CRT some time ago.

Pretty sure that's only the case if the source material doesn't make an effort to keep consistent with those claims, simply saying it has no time isn't enough, you have to show it doesn't as well, bad examples would be like the distortion world from Pokemon or the world of the void from DBZ, in which time is said not to flow but time clearly passes and even normal people can act within it. As far as GER's feat is concerned, the manga goes through tremendous length to explain that time doesn't exist numerous times and isn't moving and nobody can act within it (Even has some special-temporal side effects).

Plus for what it's worth, GER's stats are apparently so high they can't be properly judged on the Stand Stats hence the None rating, which I guess in context means N/A? in the same part that introduces a Stand that can go up to Infinite speed.
 
There doesn't exist any Stand that strong though? There'd have to be a High 3-A Stand first for him to be that strong via being stronger than it. Where there's literally Stands with Infinite as a speed rating (And I'm not talking about MIH). It'd mean GER is stronger than every other Stand though, but given he literally punched King Crimson's face off, he already was via feats.
 
I don't think she's ever done anything even slightly comparable. She has limitations, a few are quite big, just ;look at the steps needed for the plan in SSIB.
 
Yea GER definitely still has infinite speed even after the recent CRT about timeless voids. As written in the Timeless Voids Standards page , if a character moves in a place mentioned to be a timeless void by reliable characters, time is shown to not pass and "normal" people are shown to be completely unable to move in such an area, any character being capable of moving in said timeless void has infinite speed.

King Crimson's erased time fits all those criteria.

And as Chariot said, GER'S rating is so high that all of his stats read "N/A", which suggests that his stats are so high that they cant be meassured. Which should put him above Notorous Big which has infinite speed. Other stands with "N/A" or "Null " ratings have that in stats that are obviously non-existant, such as 20th Century Boy and Under World that are confirmed to have literally no destructive capabilities and thus have "Null" in destructive power
 
she can manipulate the boundary of speed she can even manipulate the boundary of stillness and motion speaking of which what's stopping her from just manipulating the stillness and motion of twoh and dio making them both unable to move and also if a person came from a different universe won't that concern yukari? She might be cocky but ensuring the safety of gensokyo is her top priority i haven't read ssib but i've seen somewhere that the main antagonist are the watasuki sisters ya know the same sisters that were confirmed to be stronger than yukari between a battle between reality benders or those who have power similar to reality bending the one that comes out on top are those with less restrictions and less limitations to their abilities and i doubt that twoh has less restrictions and limitations than yukari does
 
Ignoring the fact you clearly aren;t paying much attention, Dio isnt even involved in this thread.

She has limits? As good as her ability is don't try and force NLF's on it, there's limits to what she can do even if said limits are quite high, if she's never manipulated the boundary of something like speed, then she ain't manipulating the boundary of speed. Not that it would matter given she still has to manipulate it in the first place, meaning she has to move first to negate the speed, assuming she could even do that in the first place.

SBA is Central Park, she won't be worried about any danger befalling her land.

No i mean the whole convuluted to plan to even get into the capital, let alone fighting them. She needed outside help to do something as simple as creating a portal to the dark side. While there's a bit more in play, it shows us that Boundary Manipulation isn't invincible, there's limits to what it can do. Honestly with a power as vague as that, you gotta actually go with what's shown or been stated, otherwise you, as said, fall into the NLF trap, made even worse because we know she isn't invincible in her own verse. Also neither of them fight with reality warping, one uses high tech weaponary and the other is Reimu on steroids with countless summons.

> twoh has less restrictions and limitations than yukari does

Ignoring TWOH isn't even here, TWOH honestly has much less limitations, he isn't restricted to manipulating the concept of boundaries. His main drawback is he needs to interact with what he's manipulating but at his peak it's enough to rewrite the universe and timelines. Then again, this is Giorno, who uses causality manip, which she doesn't resist so...

Why's this even an argument? She can't even do anything. It's probably an inconclusive all things considered.
 
I just gave you an example of how it isn't infalliable. I even named off the source,

It's up to you to prove it doesn't have any limits and can do absolutely everything (Heads up, it can't). Also you failed to respond to 99% of my post.
 
but she can still manipulate the boundrys of stilness and motion one of her moves are literal called balance of stillness and motion
 
So? She'd have to actualy be fast enough to get it off first. Or resist c&e manip, neither of which are true.

Of course GER can't do much either except make it an endless tie.
 
Actually wait, Stillness and motion literally doesn't effect GER going by his feat against King Crimson.
 
Chariot190 said:
>not enough as of a CRT some time ago.
Pretty sure that's only the case if the source material doesn't make an effort to keep consistent with those claims, simply saying it has no time isn't enough, you have to show it doesn't as well, bad examples would be like the distortion world from Pokemon or the world of the void from DBZ, in which time is said not to flow but time clearly passes and even normal people can act within it. As far as GER's feat is concerned, the manga goes through tremendous length to explain that time doesn't exist numerous times and isn't moving and nobody can act within it (Even has some special-temporal side effects).

Plus for what it's worth, GER's stats are apparently so high they can't be properly judged on the Stand Stats hence the None rating, which I guess in context means N/A? in the same part that introduces a Stand that can go up to Infinite speed.
Click to expand...
Wrong. It was literally agreed if it outright says there is no time or context implies it, you simply don't get it.

It was argued again and again that time is not 0 in a place without time, time is outright not any value because it doesn't exist, and many agreed with simply discarding use of voids unless they have very explicit comments of time being frozen, not being non existent. If time is erased, obviously it isn't frozen. Characters not actually showing a capacity to do anything resembling infinite speed outside said specific circumstances would also damn the evidence, which was the exact reason "resistance to time stop" became a thing instead of just giving everyone infinite speed.

Though Sera is bogged down with the issue of the virus so the rewrite hasn't been done yet sadly.
 
Ger still moved a place void of space time. Giving him mftl+ just doesnt quite cut it,he's way faster than that
 
Dude, actually read. Moving in a place void of time is the standard fair for most infinite people, and it has been discussed as inapplicable. If the character doesn't show speed resembling that on any level outside of such a dimension, it is more damning.

Is the main reason resistance to time stop is a thing and why this change was discussed after being brought up recently. Everybody and their mother can move in it in various series, but never showcase the capacity for infinite speed outside those specific circumstances.
 
Cool I guess this thread is about to become a GER thread now.

no offense Lance but for one claiming to have others read, you failed to do so yourself. GER was capable of performing actions within a space that time doesn't exist, you could claim that yes, just because time doesn't exist it doesn't mean they have infinite speed, which is true I guess in general, see DBZ world of void, and you'd be right, unfortunately Time Erase is shown time and time again to not have any time, is explained to not have any time but also takes place within no time at all, between the moment time erase begins and time erase ends, there is no passage of time (no shit because there isn't any), yet GER still performed actions in a timeframe that is so small it doesn't actually happen, hell in some cases the start and end of time erase can literally overlap, see Bruno hitting himself, despite that GER moved in an infintasmly small timeframe. Are you going to say GER moving and acting within an infinitely small time frame isn't enough either? I'd also like to point out GER literally appears to teleport at one point.

Also the whole allegedly faster than any Stand thing applies.
 
Yes, which would put him at at least MFTL+

Okay, thanks for agreeing with me that if time is erased, there is no time, which is what is agreed not to be applicable anymore, movement in lack of any time. Infinitely small is still not 0, but that would need to be argued in it's proper tread when the changes to the page can be made (seriously **** Corona).

Anyway, not gonna derail this anymore.
 
>Moving in such a small time frame that the time that passes between Point A and Point B is 0 and can even overlap and happen at the exact same time is only MFTL+.

I hope you're joking or just don't know how to read. Actually no, you have to be joking. One of the qualifications for infinite speed is performing actions in a timeframe that is 0, yet you just said performing actions in a timeframe that is 0 and can even overlap due to being 0 is only MFTL+? At this point I'm convinced you don't even know what you're talking about, yeah one justification is being taken, the act of moving in voids, cool, performing actions in an infinitely small timeframe is still infinite. Unless you're going to say infinitely small to the point it doesn't even happen isn't infinite? Then what is it Lance? You even implied yourself that moving in 0 time is a qualificatio it's just that voids aren't considered to have 0 time but rather no time, impying that if they did have 0 time it would count.

Reading comprehension Lance, I agreed in some cases that yeah it's clearly not the case, don't get ahead of yourself and be a smartass. I even followed up saying that Time Erase in context has several key factors that would warrant it, such as the fact it happens instantly and the timeframe between it starting and ending is instant and can even overlap. If something is instant and you can perform an action in an instant timeframe, well I'm sure you've seen how often on this wiki people say Goku's Instant Transmission is Infinite speed because it's instant and isn't just him moving fast (In canon anyway).

>Infinitely small is still not 0

That's literally what it means, infinitely small, the absolute smallest timeframe possible, none at all.

Also I noticed you decided to ignore several points, why the cherry picking? Hell you brought it up, you're why it's getting derailed.
 
You are free to see the thread. As Sera brought up along with other users that I think are into actually learning physics, 0 is a value even if it's 0. Lack of time it's not a value, is outright crossing out zero or leaving a blank space. So you don't end with Speed = D/T where T is 0 and D is any distance, but Speed = D/ Blank where there's an entirely blank space and therefore, completely unapplicable. As said on the thread, that's not movement in 0 time, is movement in indeterminable/nonexistent/whatchamacallit time. Mathematically speaking, is not only not the same it is not translatable. Logically speaking, an equation entirely missing even a null value on one side is just... there I guess?

Going off official encyclopedia, infinitesimal means either "extremely small", "vallue approaching zero", etc. Am going off both the Cambridge and Oxford online dictionaries, and some others I checked just in case, and even this definition for it's mathematical use, "of, relating to, or involving a small change in the value of a variable that approaches zero as a limit". So really doesn't seem to be "none at all" which would be 0. Regardless, whether it could be excusable as an instance of actual infinite speed, since I am simply going off your own words, would merit it's own separate discussion with the adjunct proof.
 
I did see the thread, and now you're just backpedaling (That or outright ignoring what I have said) which is why I'm saying case by case unless the thing in question has sufficient evidence to suggest otherwisethere's more going on that just GER moving in a place with no time, the more in question would apply even if we don't consider voids a feat anymore. And again, you made claims earlier telling others to read yet you have shown yourself incapable of doing so yoourself, why the hypocrisy Lance? I already made note that yeah, maybe moving in a void isn't quantifiable but you know what is? Something you've said multiple times now. Moving in a timeframe that is 0, GER can move and perform actions in a span of time that is instant, 0, Time Erase starts and ends instantly, yet GER can act within that instant timeframe, performing actions within an instant, a literal instant mind you, not a hyperbolic one, would need infinite speed as actions wouldn't be able to even move in anywhere if the timeframe it needs to happen in is instant. If you want to ignore GER moving in erased time fine but we still have an actual timeframe for him, on top of shit like seemingly teleporting. Or being faster than Stands with a top speed literally said to be infinite.

My bad then, I used the wrong word, replace infintesmly with infinitely small (Already said as much anyway in the same post). Regardless of what words you or I want to use, the time between the start and end of time erase is 0, instant, so instant that the start and end can even overlap, yet GER can do actions in a timeframe so short it's instant. Which is what you're failing to understand, you keeping going on about how there's no value in a void so it doesn't count but are ignoring we have a value outside of that, which is instantantaneous, arguably encroaching on some Ness earthbound shit. (Not withstanding the anime and manga depictions of Time Erase are different and I'm pretty sure the manga version needs infinite speed not because it's a timeless void but because of all the descriptions and flavour text and explanations surrounding it and fleshing it out even if we assume moving in erased time isn't a feat. Anime depiction on the other hand acts a bit differently, pretty sure that version lacks what's needed).

GER, who can act in an instant, is the fastest Stand allegedly above even Stands with top speeds of infinite and has done things that appear to be teleporting (While definitely is not even slightly enough to warrant infinite speed, that's if it's alone, it's a nice thing to have as support though) and can't even be perceived moving, even by Epitaph, which is described in the manga to essentially act as a frame by frame of time? Idk dude, that plus the lack of any contradictions suggests otherwise. It's not like if Hierophant Green suddenly showed an infinite feat, we know that thing isn't infinite, not even close, GER on the other hand has things going for it yet nothing against.
 
At this point I'd suggest to suspend all GER/Heaven DIO/Heaven Jotaro matches at speed unequal until the Infinite Speed CRT is done as they become a shitstorm like this one
 
Nope, no reason to make a CRT, the page about Timeless Voids makes it pretty clear what counts and doesnt count as an actual timeless void. Diavolo's erased time fits that perfectly, it acts exactly like a Type 3 True timeless void. and of course the fact that GER's stats are so high they cant be meassured, implying they are above Notrious Big's infinite speed.
 
Actually, I quite literally said that the page hasn't been changed at all because that was on the list of things to do but they wanted Sera to do it, but life issues and now the virus along with the soon-ish move to the new serves is keeping that in lockdown until further notice. The fact that the page is the exact same before and after the thread shows this.

And you are free to think it is still applicable, will have to see after this is properly applied. But moving in a void ain't it chief, especially one that explicitly lacks time.
 
Yeah I got that the first 4 times you said it, repeating yourself when I already made it clear I got your point is a waste of time, and even if they didn't get it, still doesn't change the fact this is the 4th time you repeated it, the prior two aren't really excused. The page being the exact same as before doesn't matter because even ignoring that the whole time erase thing, there's at least 3 other supporting factors. All of which you've yet to even heed. Stop acting like the only thing that's been said is he moved in erased time, because most of what's been said is excluding that. Actually why are you still going on about voids in general? The fact it's a void hasn't been brought up, other then him, for like 3 posts.

Hell, GER is treated faster than MIH in outside material, non-canon but hey, it goes to show that even licensed material seems to think GER is fast as ****. Actually why did you even bring up a non-applied change like it's been implemented? It isn't even relevant yet.
 
I have no clue why are you so hostile, but I was saying that to Door. And I really think they are, when exposing case by case doesn't make it not fall under the cases that were called unusable.

I mentioned it because it is likely to change if the other stuff is found nonrelevant. If it isn't, great, it stays. You could also curve the attitude when I haven't even said anything is definitive or have shit talked you. I have perfectly read and you simply sound far too irritable for such a small thing. I know you can be absurdly upfront but this is absurd out of nowhere.

Edit: Actually, with that kinda attitude, I'll just **** off.
 
if it hasnt changed yet, then dont bring it up yet.and again, GER's speed stat is still immeasurable, implying it's faster than Notrious Big who has infinite speed as his rating.
 
Yet it has been decided. If all the other stuff is proof enough, good, ******* perfect.

But that is obviously not reflected on the profile, and those additional things being added would certainly help since the erased time stuff isn't gonna be allowed soon. Less the hassle to have it prepared ahead of time.

And yeah, immeasurable is never happning.
 
Hostile? I'm not being hostile, although I am making use of statements like learn to read and the like, but you've done the same, seems a bit hypocritical if you take issue with that.

>when exposing case by case doesn't make it not fall under the cases that were called unusable.

It doesn't make it fall under them either, hence case by case. Literally what it means. Just because something is true for most doesn't mean it's true for all.

>I haven't even said anything is definitive

Actually the way you worded it initially lacked any words that would imply as much like May or Possibly, then proceeded to explain why GER definitely doesn't qualify. If you weren't trying to be definitive, pick your words more carefully.


>I have perfectly read and you simply sound far too irritable for such a small thing.

Then why ignore most of it and cherry pick? That's my main issue, you're stuck on one thing yet I've made several points, yet you've failed to even imply you read those points. Also how does one pick up irritability through text? If I'm coming off as confrontantional, that's a deliberate choice.

>I know you can be absurdly upfront but this is absurd out of nowhere.

I like to think I'm blunt and thorough opposed to absurdly upfront. Although I realize a lot of what I can say comes off as rude sometimes, only realizing it after rereading it but eh, very rarely intentional.
 
Why are you necroing threads? This is the second one I got notified from alone.
 
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