Genshin Impact Tier Revision

[Ricsi-viragosi]

This skill doesn't use energy though, and the idea that he spent 7-B levels of energy to summon a single bolt of lighting to strike the enemy with is bizarre.

 

[Solacis]

This skill doesn't use energy though, and the idea that he spent 7-B levels of energy to summon a single bolt of lighting to strike the enemy with is bizarre.

You're mixing up the gameplay energy with the in-universe elemental energy. Every use of elemental power uses elemental energy, which the Vision channels.

 

[Solacis]

Bumperino

 

[Solacis]

Ok, seeing as no one's responding, I'm just going to try and summarize the noteworthy arguments so far:

• MAIN POINT:
  • Razor uses a universal energy system (Elemental Energy) to create clouds as part of his lightning-based elemental skill.
  • This results in a yield of Low 7-B.
• SUPPORTING POINTS:
  • Razor is a student of Lisa, who displays the exact same feat of creating clouds in her own elemental skill.
  • Razor is powerful enough to hold back attacks from a bloodlusted Andrius, who was superior to the Mondstadt Traveler, and continues to regularly train with the Liyue Traveler. Dainsleif in his World Quest states that Abyss Heralds, one of which fought on even ground with the Liyue Traveler after the Windblume Festival, would not wish to make trouble with Andrius.
• COUNTER-POINTS:
  • "The skill description says the chant is a summoning, not a creation."
    False. There is no mention of "summoning" in either of Razor or Lisa's elemental skill descriptions.
  • "Razor only says that Lisa's lightning makes the sky dark, not that she can create storms."
    Invalid. The important thing in the feat is that the clouds are created with the use of an Electro Vision's lightning. The fact that Razor says this in reference to her lightning abilities, in conjunction with the fact that her E-Skill's attack animation clearly lines up with this statement, means that her ability to create the clouds is unquestionable.
  • "Razor is scared mindless of one of Lisa's ability to create storm clouds, so he can't do the same thing."
    Contradictory. One cannot acknowledge Lisa's ability to create black clouds while claiming that Razor cannot do the same, when the game clearly shows them both performing the exact same feat that has been calc'ed in the OP. Razor being afraid of Lisa's power, while being capable of performing the same feat of creating clouds only means that Lisa is stronger than Razor. Considering that neither Lisa nor Razor's cloud creation feats are in any way their maximum power, then it only means that Razor is afraid of Lisa's full power, which is far greater than his own full power.

This is the most important point. We have established that the feat on its own is absolutely valid, and with the fact that it is performed using a universal energy system, it is equally valid to scale to AP. The only question here is whether this conflicts with the lore of canonically more powerful beings.

Razor being Low 7-B isn't nearly as contradictory to the lore as some people are making it out to be, and here's why.

• Barbatos in his prime casually reshaped the once-mountainous region of Mondstadt to the smooth plains and clear plateaus it has in the current time period. He also relocated the tallest mountain currently known in Teyvat deep in the ocean.
  • Prime Barbatos is vastly more powerful than he was when he defeated Decarabian.
  • Decarabian was so much more powerful than Prime Andrius, that the latter could not even make it to Decarabian's tower after declaring war on him.
  • Prime Andrius is immensely more powerful than the current Andrius, who is only an elemental vessel that cannot display strength even close to the full extent of his original power.
  • Current Andrius is vastly superior to Abyss Heralds, who are each capable of holding their own against the current Liyue Traveler.
  • Razor was able to hold back attacks from the current Andrius.

The god-tiers of the verse are still well beyond anything the current cast of playable characters can even fathom, so I don't see how this is in any way lore-breaking. Especially when, in the first place, we have characters like Beidou who, even without a Vision, slew Haishan; a feat acknowledged as praiseworthy by someone as powerful as Xiao.

And before someone bring this up:

A character named Beidou has many exaggerated feats, which are then hyperbolically described as "sea splitting".

This is taken horribly out of context. The source is this:

People love to tell epic tales of her earth-shattering (or rather, sea-splitting) feats; tales in which her abilities are exaggerated to almost superhuman levels.

One rumor is that she can channel Electro energy with her sword. It is said that she once used this to cut in half a formidable sea monster from the depths of the ocean abyss with just one hit.

Bystanders who overhear such tales generally dismiss them as drunken ramblings. But to any who have ever voyaged with Beidou themselves, these stories are no joke. In their view, if this world really were home to a giant sea monster from the ocean abyss... Beidou would certainly be capable of cutting it in half.

The actual meaning of this quote is that the so-called exaggerations of her abilities are, to the people who know her true strength, things she could actually do.

There is a clear power-level established for playable characters, and it is clear, through statement after statement of superiority alone, that the god-tiers are simply on another level entirely. There is nothing in the lore that contradicts Razor and other playable characters being 7-B.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

I agree with mitch and the upgrade

 

[Solacis]

That's four in addition to myself who are in agreement with the upgrades. (ZephyrosOmega, Cyberblader90, DarkDragonMedeus and DemonGodMitchAubin).

 

[MrKerf]

I agree. Looks good.

 

[Naito-desu]

What is the gist of this? Genshin Impact characters retaining their 7-B status?

 

[Solacis]

What is the gist of this? Genshin Impact characters retaining their 7-B status?

The old 7-B calc wasn't accepted when the profiles were first made, so this is pretty much just implementing a revised calc of the same feat that has been accepted; which yields a Low 7-B.

 

[Naito-desu]

So it's a downgrade then? Rip, my 7-B genshin matchups then

 

[Naito-desu]

Otherwise I agree with the change

 

[Avengershows]

I agree with the upgrades

 

[Solacis]

Considering the agreements now number at 7, not including myself, I'll give it a week to see if anyone has anything else to say. If not, then this can be concluded.

 

[Solacis]

Ok, seeing as no one's responding, I'm just going to try and summarize the noteworthy arguments so far:

• MAIN POINT:
  • Razor uses a universal energy system (Elemental Energy) to create clouds as part of his lightning-based elemental skill.
  • This results in a yield of Low 7-B.
• SUPPORTING POINTS:
  • Razor is a student of Lisa, who displays the exact same feat of creating clouds in her own elemental skill.
  • Razor is powerful enough to hold back attacks from a bloodlusted Andrius, who was superior to the Mondstadt Traveler, and continues to regularly train with the Liyue Traveler. Dainsleif in his World Quest states that Abyss Heralds, one of which fought on even ground with the Liyue Traveler after the Windblume Festival, would not wish to make trouble with Andrius.
• COUNTER-POINTS:
  • "The skill description says the chant is a summoning, not a creation."
    False. There is no mention of "summoning" in either of Razor or Lisa's elemental skill descriptions.
  • "Razor only says that Lisa's lightning makes the sky dark, not that she can create storms."
    Invalid. The important thing in the feat is that the clouds are created with the use of an Electro Vision's lightning. The fact that Razor says this in reference to her lightning abilities, in conjunction with the fact that her E-Skill's attack animation clearly lines up with this statement, means that her ability to create the clouds is unquestionable.
  • "Razor is scared mindless of one of Lisa's ability to create storm clouds, so he can't do the same thing."
    Contradictory. One cannot acknowledge Lisa's ability to create black clouds while claiming that Razor cannot do the same, when the game clearly shows them both performing the exact same feat that has been calc'ed in the OP. Razor being afraid of Lisa's power, while being capable of performing the same feat of creating clouds only means that Lisa is stronger than Razor. Considering that neither Lisa nor Razor's cloud creation feats are in any way their maximum power, then it only means that Razor is afraid of Lisa's full power, which is far greater than his own full power.

This is the most important point. We have established that the feat on its own is absolutely valid, and with the fact that it is performed using a universal energy system, it is equally valid to scale to AP. The only question here is whether this conflicts with the lore of canonically more powerful beings.

Razor being Low 7-B isn't nearly as contradictory to the lore as some people are making it out to be, and here's why.

• Barbatos in his prime casually reshaped the once-mountainous region of Mondstadt to the smooth plains and clear plateaus it has in the current time period. He also relocated the tallest mountain currently known in Teyvat deep in the ocean.
  • Prime Barbatos is vastly more powerful than he was when he defeated Decarabian.
  • Decarabian was so much more powerful than Prime Andrius, that the latter could not even make it to Decarabian's tower after declaring war on him.
  • Prime Andrius is immensely more powerful than the current Andrius, who is only an elemental vessel that cannot display strength even close to the full extent of his original power.
  • Current Andrius is vastly superior to Abyss Heralds, who are each capable of holding their own against the current Liyue Traveler.
  • Razor was able to hold back attacks from the current Andrius.

The god-tiers of the verse are still well beyond anything the current cast of playable characters can even fathom, so I don't see how this is in any way lore-breaking. Especially when, in the first place, we have characters like Beidou who, even without a Vision, slew Haishan; a feat acknowledged as praiseworthy by someone as powerful as Xiao.

And before someone bring this up:

This is taken horribly out of context. The source is this:

The actual meaning of this quote is that the so-called exaggerations of her abilities are, to the people who know her true strength, things she could actually do.

There is a clear power-level established for playable characters, and it is clear, through statement after statement of superiority alone, that the god-tiers are simply on another level entirely. There is nothing in the lore that contradicts Razor and other playable characters being 7-B.

Another thing I feel is worth adding to this:

While Klee and Alice explicitly require strategic placement of their explosives in order to bring down mountains, this is in no way an anti-feat for Low 7-B.

The fragmentation value for a minimum-sized mountain as outlined by this page is 1.45 Megatons. Considering we have no way to know the actual height of Starsnatch Cliff and the Stormbearer Mountains prior to Alice and Klee's family bonding exercises, and that the level of destruction is described as "razing the Stormbearer Mountains flat", that is to say, at least Pulverization; then 2.04 Megatons is well-within what can be considered reasonable for being "not strong enough to brute-force the destruction of the average mountain" while also being "strong enough to level one given sufficient knowledge in demolitions".

 

[Solacis]

Ok, considering I'll probably be busy all of next week starting tomorrow, seeing as no one has made any further comments I'm just going to assume this can be concluded and start making edits to the profiles.

 

[Lodestar]

i agree