Genshin Impact General Discussion!

[Yoyco]

Update is near

Zhongli's burst looks awesome....I fear I might waist everything to try and attain him. May the Gacha Gods smile upon me

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Damn the new questline starting from the Childe boss fight up to the Liyue Harbour defence is sheer hype. Also kinda showed that Ningguang is a level above most playable characters in terms of power level. Massacring Fatui troops while amped by the adepti feels ******* cathartic.

Also, got Childe with my very first pull (am F2P). All in all, very satisfying day for me.

 

[RatherClueless]

Soooo, we gonna talk scaling?

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Soooo, we gonna talk scaling?

Archon Zhongli easily 6-C if not higher if the entire Guyun Stone Forest Archipelago is just his stone spears. He was also prepared to do it again if Ningguang and gang were unable to stop the Yamata-no-Orochi looking thingie. Depowered Zhongli is anyone's guess.

Also, Archon Zhongli doesn't scale to anyone. Not even Archon Venti.

 

[RatherClueless]

Archon Zhongli easily 6-C if not higher if the entire Guyun Stone Forest Archipelago is just his stone spears. He was also prepared to do it again if Ningguang and gang were unable to stop the Yamata-no-Orochi looking thingie. Depowered Zhongli is anyone's guess.

Also, Archon Zhongli doesn't scale to anyone. Not even Archon Venti.

How? Even if I am super generous, I couldn't calc it above 7-B, even if I wanted. Unless you are going to say that the mountains in the stone forest are around 2.5kmX2.5kmX1.25km and he yeeted them into outer space >. > (And I mean that quite literally. That's actually what it would take to get 6-C). Depowered Zhongli would scale to around venti . . . probably. We now also know: Active Archon >>>> random god >>>>> Adepti/4 Winds >=< Fatui Harbinger >>>>>>>>>>>>> main cast.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

We don't know how deep those islands go so it could reach those levels. Also, Zhongli gameplay leaks seem to have attacks that come from space.

Also, 4 Winds aren't equally powerful. From what I can tell, God Vanessa > Dvalin > Andrius > Jean.

 

[RatherClueless]

Well, lion of the south is kind of an honorary wind, kek. That aside, I don't think we ever got any clear statement on that. Zhongli's attack is very clearly a summon. From the largest island we can see roughly 250x250x100m (and that is generous, considering it's mostly hollow). That means that the island is actually 1250x larger than what we see? Not even mountains that are known for having a great base to summit/sea level to summit discrepancy get into this range.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Ok, who made this?

We have not agreed on a tier yet.

 

[MrKerf]

Solacis did and you can look it in the page's history.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

@Solacis What are the motivations behind 8-A.

 

[Solacis]

How did I not see this thread

It's from this old blog. I just took the lowest value since I didn't want to inflate anything I didn't have a proper calc for yet. Asked for said proper calc for the feat on the request thread earlier, so I'm just waiting on that.

Imma just read through this and smother my shame for forgetting to check for a thread like this.

 

[Solacis]

What's the consensus on the non-Archon scaling? Also any thoughts on Ursa? Nevermind.

From what I can tell, the biggest point of contention is whether or not Traveler/Jean/Diluc/Venti scales to Dvalin via being able to hurt him. I don't understand why not, since it's a prerequisite of the fight to damage Dvalin enough to force him to rest on the platform, where you can then target his blood clots. It's impossible to entirely dismiss what goes on in the gameplay. The gameplay of the boss fight gives you some unquestionable truths:

1. The Traveler, Venti, Jean and Diluc confront Dvalin.
2. Venti himself says that in order to break Dvalin free from the Abyss Order's control, you need to destroy the blood clots, which have been cursed to corrupt his mind.
3. In order to reach the blood clot on Dvalin's neck, you need to damage Dvalin enough to force him to rest on the platform.

There's nothing else to imply that the fight could've went on differently than what's established through gameplay. There are two possibilities to choose from:

A) We either follow the portrayal of the boss fight as shown through gameplay.
OR
B) We assume that it somehow happened entirely differently, in a way that would somehow end with both the blood clots destroyed and with the main 4 completely uninjured.

Thus, Occam's Razor comes into effect, and the only correct answer is A, which has the least assumptions inherent.

 

[RatherClueless]

What's the consensus on the non-Archon scaling? Also any thoughts on Ursa? Nevermind.

From what I can tell, the biggest point of contention is whether or not Traveler/Jean/Diluc/Venti scales to Dvalin via being able to hurt him. I don't understand why not, since it's a prerequisite of the fight to damage Dvalin enough to force him to rest on the platform, where you can then target his blood clots. It's impossible to entirely dismiss what goes on in the gameplay. The gameplay of the boss fight gives you some unquestionable truths:

1. The Traveler, Venti, Jean and Diluc confront Dvalin.
2. Venti himself says that in order to break Dvalin free from the Abyss Order's control, you need to destroy the blood clots, which have been cursed to corrupt his mind.
3. In order to reach the blood clot on Dvalin's neck, you need to damage Dvalin enough to force him to rest on the platform.

There's nothing else to imply that the fight could've went on differently than what's established through gameplay. There are two possibilities to choose from:

A) We either follow the portrayal of the boss fight as shown through gameplay.
OR
B) We assume that it somehow happened entirely differently, in a way that would somehow end with both the blood clots destroyed and with the main 4 completely uninjured.

Thus, Occam's Razor comes into effect, and the only correct answer is A, which has the least assumptions inherent.

It is stated in game that the storm doesn't scale to the Dvalin you fight later on.

 

[00potato]

Scan for that?

 

[RatherClueless]

Sure, let me go and get it

 

[RatherClueless]

There you go

 

[Yoyco]

Is there anyway we can calc the storm the Overlord of the Vortex performed and Geo Archons spears that sealed it ?

 

[RatherClueless]

Is there anyway we can calc the storm the Overlord of the Vortex performed and Geo Archons spears that sealed it ?

We can calc both, yes.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

What do you make of this item description?

 

[Solacis]

So if Dvalin during the fight with him doesn't scale to the storms, what does he scale to? If I recall, he still uses tornadoes during the battle, so at the very least, he scales to the tornadoes he could already make before.



Then there's also the storms occurring during the fight, around the battlefield. The winds throwing around those huge pillars and debris. Then the winds after the fight that were destroying the battlefield. Wouldn't he still scale to those? It's not as big a storm as the one he made during his first appearance, since it doesn't stretch to the horizon, but it's still a pretty massive storm.



These are all after the Temples' power have been cut off from Dvalin, and we know those storms can't be from anyone other than Dvalin, since the storms that were originally there from Decarabian's time were already dispelled by Barbatos when Decarabian died.

 

[RatherClueless]

The storm doesn't disappear after defeating Dvalin tho, no? And even if, that'd just be a normal tornado anyways. The small one he created is more like a whirlwind.

 

[RatherClueless]

What do you make of this item description?

This would only scale to gods. That aside, what exactly was the conclusion on heat based calcs? Weren't people debating on whether they could be used?

Edit: Nvm. Spirit Locket of Boreas: "This land was once a realm of sub-zero blizzards and ice storms filled with razor-sharp ice shards, all at the command of Boreas"

With that it can't be calced anyways.

 

[Solacis]

The storm doesn't disappear after defeating Dvalin tho, no? And even if, that'd just be a normal tornado anyways. The small one he created is more like a whirlwind.

A normal tornado that just so happened to be there during the fight with the wind dragon? Just because it didn't disappear when Dvalin saved them doesn't mean he wasn't the one that created/sustained it. The only supernatural storms in that area either came from Decarabian or Dvalin, and we know Venti got rid of the storms created by Decarabian. Assuming that a storm was conveniently occurring in that exact location during the battle is a bigger leap in logic than assuming that Dvalin, who explicitly controls wind to a massive degree, was the one who created said storm.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Just saying, I found some stuff for Tier 4 Genshin.

 

[00potato]

You wat?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Yup, it apparently has to do with Genesis Crystals and Primogems which are more than just currency. A friend of mine showed me this information.

Here is their reasoning for this scaling to characters.

"Well, I'm going to present you to Primogems, which are comparable to Genesis Crystals and we know this because if they weren't, why would Genesis Crystals be traded in for something far inferior to it's purpose. The point being is, they are comparable and thus, the energy in Primogems should also be 4-C. Now, this is coming full circle to the final point, which is that Primogems and their energies are used to empower the characters of the game. This is mainly present in Original Resin system, which canonically what gives your character power and energy. So, what this means is, characters literally have 4-C levels of power, as they can absorb and empower themselves with objects of this level."

 

[Solacis]

That sounds like a massive outlier.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I am sick of hearing outlier. Are there really any anti-feats here?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So there is also this he told me.

"Some are quick to call outlier, but when you consider there are items capable of causing solar eclipses (or at least implied to), weapons that can effect the cosmos, blot out the moon or even warp it to become red, yeah, I don't think this is as outlierish as one would seem."

 

[Solacis]

I mean, we have Osial being pinned down by stone spears at the Guyun Stone Forest, and our guys being helpless against it if it weren't for the Adepti. Then, said Osial is killed by a divebomb from a structure that could not be any larger than a mansion. I really don't see how people like the Traveler can be considered Tier 4.

 

[00potato]

Most of that seems like LS rather then AP.

 

[RatherClueless]

A normal tornado that just so happened to be there during the fight with the wind dragon? Just because it didn't disappear when Dvalin saved them doesn't mean he wasn't the one that created/sustained it. The only supernatural storms in that area either came from Decarabian or Dvalin, and we know Venti got rid of the storms created by Decarabian. Assuming that a storm was conveniently occurring in that exact location during the battle is a bigger leap in logic than assuming that Dvalin, who explicitly controls wind to a massive degree, was the one who created said storm.

He only dispelled the anemo barrier at the entrance tho, no?

That aside, @Dragonmasterxyz
You trolling, right?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I am merely posting information I was given to see if it is useful for anything. I myself haven't played much of Genshin so I don't know how these items interact with the main story. So no, I am not trolling.

 

[00potato]

That clearly came from another source since you were quoting someone.
Could you link it?

 

[RatherClueless]

Well, genesis crystals are not implied to scale to primo gems, which are not implied to scale to resin, which does not scale to characters anyways.

We also have statements like Keqing being able to bring down stars, but honestly, that seems more hyperbolic and over the top than anything else.

Honestly, from what I can tell the main cast will likely end up being around 9-B to 8-C. Adepti and the like probably around 8-B, gods around 8-A to low 7-C and Archons around 7-C, maybe 7-B. Tier 4 would make no sense.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

That clearly came from another source since you were quoting someone.
Could you link it?

Considering the person's history here and dislike of the site, they'd prefer to stay anonymous. So their stuff is being sent through me (it's also over Discord).

 

[Solacis]

He only dispelled the anemo barrier at the entrance tho, no?

From what I recall, Barbatos dispelled the storm walls created by Decarabian to free the people trapped inside the original capital. That's what I was referring to. The storms from Decarabian's time were dispelled, and considering Decarabian himself was already dead, the new storms could only have been the work of Dvalin.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Following. I did have GI, but deleted it because it requires too much space and is uber laggy

 

[RatherClueless]

From what I recall, Barbatos dispelled the storm walls created by Decarabian to free the people trapped inside the original capital. That's what I was referring to. The storms from Decarabian's time were dispelled, and considering Decarabian himself was already dead, the new storms could only have been the work of Dvalin.

Wasn't it stated that that area has a naturally great amount of anemo energy, regardless bof Dvalin? Pretty sure they mentioned that when Venti wanted to dispell the barrier, but they got attacked by Hilichurls. They then went like: "That's weird. This area has an abundance of anemo energy. They shouldn't be here"

But even if we say that's all Dvalin, that's like what, 8-B? 8-A if I reeaally wank it?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So I got some better renders for the Traveler that weren't cut off.