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Genshin Impact General Discussion!

Alright, this is getting nowhere, but still siding with Potato here

Also where is the others (especially Ovens and Witchy)? If we get more peoples arguing here then this can solved, right now its between Potato and Clueless being too tryhard here (tho i feel Clueless is more tryhard here)
 
How is he being try hard? He literally was memeing. I will respond to the arguments tonight since I have other stuff to attend to.
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
Alright, this is getting nowhere, but still siding with Potato here

Also where is the others (especially Ovens and Witchy)? If we get more peoples arguing here then this can solved, right now its between Potato and Clueless being too tryhard here (tho i feel Clueless is more tryhard here)
Click to expand...
Why am I a tryhard? Anyways, no idea why FW and Ovens aren't coming back. Not even like they are inactive. Ovens posted a few hours ago and FW literally 5 min ago.
 
So, I have no intention to go through all of this at all, so let me try and understand what is being talked if here.

Guy A has a passive storm around him.
There is a fight with the guy outside of cutscenes.
The characters he fights are supposed to be way weaker.
The manga has contradictory feats or showcases.
I am also pretty sure that mining stuff and some ither things are somewhat contradictory, though to a minor level.


Anyways, before everything else would matter... ya'all are nit forgetting that you now need to prove storms scale to ap, right?

Like, there was a whole thread about it, culminating in the creation of enviromental destruction. Him doing it passively makes it even more doubtful that this us taking active taxation in his personal power.

Anyways, you need to prove storm feats scale to other abilities, not the other way around. That is my main point here.
 
The fact that it is passive helps my point though. It is illogical to assume that his more casual feats of Anemo manipulation would be massively stronger than the active Anemo manipulation he uses to actually fight you. Unless he was holding back for some reason it makes no sense. Same with Lisa, why would she put that much more power into summoning that storm than she can do otherwise; all of her electric related power comes from her vision so it wouldn’t make sense for her standard attacks to be far weaker; if she could wield that much energy, she would logically wield power similar to that in combat.

The four protagonists for the arc are indeed weaker than Dvalin yes. That is why they obviously have to backscale a fair bit but they still were able to fight against him, so they need to be in a general ball park.
 
In no way does that help. You need proof that the ability scales to his stats. Point.

It being passive means it is not done through physical acts, which makes scaling it ti physicals unallowed unless you can prove otherwise. And you don't seem to be able to.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
In no way does that help. You need proof that the ability scales to his stats. Point.

It being passive means it is not done through physical acts, which makes scaling it ti physicals unallowed unless you can prove otherwise. And you don't seem to be able to.
Click to expand...
You missed out on the main point. The storm was likely made by his Anemo manipulation, he relies on that heavily in the fight as much as his physicals in the actual fight. So they would most likely be similar in power. Why is this passive use of Anemo manipulation randomly many times stronger than his actual dedicated attacks?

It is illogical to assume that he can use more force passively than in active combat.
 
"Likely" is not a good reason for a massive jump in power. Likely, based on what? Is there a statement? Is making storms established to be something it can do?
 
Actually it might not be entirely passive since he seems to actively summon a tornado or two. The main storm seems to be more passive though
I will also check the main fight for anything too.
 
Alright. If it is, then it would mostly depend on in-verse consistency. Having the ability to control an element over a large range does not mean you can force that much energy into a small portion of it. For certain, making winds with nuclear levels of energy behind them makes no sense.
It can happen in fiction of course, but it can be argued either way.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Alright. If it is, then it would mostly depend on in-verse consistency. Having the ability to control an element over a large range does not mean you can force that much energy into a small portion of it. For certain, making winds with nuclear levels of energy behind them makes no sense.
It can happen in fiction of course, but it can be argued either way.
Click to expand...
That is an oddly specific restriction but I can sort of understand the point. Though it is strange to say that you can exert x amount of force only over a certain range is a very specific idea that I don’t see much reason to use.
The point about it making no sense for it to do that much damage would be fine, I get that too but then again, neither does anything in this game, it is a wacky anime fantasy game, Anemo magic can be as ridiculously above what wind should logically do if the scaling is consistent. If the feats line up (We have two to three and I already went into the other bits.) it should work even if it sounds wacky.
 
Me: You can't just scale storm feats like that. You need evidence. That's just how we do it.
Potato: Why tho? That seems illogical.
Velox: I agree with Potato. Rather seems like a tryhard

Ricsi: You can't just scale storm feats like that. You need evidence. That's just how we do it.
Potato: Finally this concersation going somewhere
Velox: Finally someone has this under control. Pathetic Rather, smh.

Me: ;-;
 
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Environmental Destruction as a whole is that idea. You make a lot of wide spread damage, but cannot use it to damage someone on that tier.

So yeah, depends on how feats make it work it out, and how much sense it makes in-game. Maybe I'll watch a video of the story parts or something.

Beyond that, what was the context of their fight? If clueless is suggesting that they may have not fought at all, then I doubt that the dude was trying to murder them at all costs exactly.
 
Which fight? The first one is mostly him attacking the city itself you just shoot at him until he leaves. The second is Dvalin and you outright fighting each other because you want to break the crystals on his back making him hate people and he still hates you because of the crystals.
 
In the fight with the blood cloths, shots anywhere but at the wounds fail to harm him. At the second stage you can break his pose pretty much, but still not really hurt him without hitting the cloths.

The fact that the air currents created by him can be ridden and only propel you a few tens of meters upward (at most, seems less eyeballing it) could also be argued for it.

Though, I'd agree that this depends more on in-verse logic than our standards.
 
Yeah that’s ok. The fact that you can break his pose and stun him for that long makes it unlikely for the higher tier gang not to at least backscale a fair bit.

The vision system isn’t super fleshed out yet to my knowledge so it might take a bit of work to figure out the last bit. I still think it should scale since their main attacks all come from the same source as the storm feats, but I could look into it a bit more.
 
Not flashed out is an understatement. It is part of the lore that they are a mystery, nobody knows where they come from or how they work.
 
Things like it specifically breaking the platforms with multiple hits is also somewhat strange.

If it is really uncertain, I'd suggest making it a "possibly".


On another note, both the full size of the storm (which seems to be smaller than a normal storm) is shown, as well as obvious movement. Calcing it with KE should be viable.
 
I am fine with putting it as possibly. What would be the lower end though? I would assume half of the combo feat by Jean and Amber.
 
Btw, 5-B Genshin is totally a thing now with Mona's story. She created a portal. A portal of that size would require roughly 10^33-10^34J. Since she did it with her vision, it should scale to all her attacks and all characters in game :v
 
I have no idea what a low end tier would be.

And Clueless, dunno what to tell you. While it could not make sense for the story, there is no technical reason as far as the wiki goes not to count it. He also undid the mini-tornado around him by flapping his wings, for exemple, and specifically has a trump card attack besides the storm.
 
Not in a part that I read, you didn't.

If that is the case, that can be both good and bad I guess. Problems with outliers wouldn't really apply there, and in that case the dude could get the tier while they get a key for when they are empowered.
 
Venti really isn’t portrayed as any stronger than everyone else and we only see the traveler being empowered in the first phase to follow Dvalin in flight. The chances of Venti being far stronger than everyone else is low even considering that he is technically a god (he is notably the weakest god and lacks any feat suggesting that he is any stronger than the main squad.)
Considering that Venti only amped folks to help them fly, we cannot even be sure they were amped in the second phase.
 
Screenshot_102.png


Heyhey something interesting. No need to make a feat out of this but...
 
Damn I am feeling good. But stupid at the same time. Rewatched the cutscenes. Turns out I am right yet wrong. Mostly right tho. So we do know how Dvalin made the storms. That's where I was wrong. More importantly, the storm is stated to not scale. The storms do not come from his own power, but the temples instead. And only the storms. So that's that. But hey, we still have 5-B Mona
 
Got to AR36 and did the Venti Story Quest. Seems like he has a few not really that combat applicable abilities. He can see what people are imagining, but not hear what they are thinking. He can manipulate souls but only those of dead people, not rip them out of living people (or if he can, he chooses not to). He can shapeshift but likely appearances only and he isn't abandoning his bard form anytime soon. Also Barbatos, then a wisp, and the bard Venti rebelled against Decarabian, the ex-Archon/dictator of Monstadt and killed him, but the bard Venti died. After which Barbatos adopted his appearance. Decarabian, being the god of storms would at least be stronger than Dvalin.
 
I am pretty sure that was about the area about the temple. We can clearly see him summoning the storms in the first cutscene without any evidence of temple use.
Even if that feat was somehow disproven we still have the Hypostasis statement and Lisa.
 
00potato said:
I am pretty sure that was about the area about the temple. We can clearly see him summoning the storms in the first cutscene without any evidence of temple use.
Even if that feat was somehow disproven we still have the Hypostasis statement and Lisa.
Click to expand...
The reason why you did those temples of the 4 winds where you got Lisa and Kaeya was because they were artificially boosting Dvalin to be able to make those storms. That is literally stated. Period.

Lisa's feat is 8-C, even with the storm. Lightning does not scale to the storm it comes from. That's just that. If anything it would definitely be an outlier now, since if Dvalin needs amps to make a storm, it makes 0 sense for Lisa to casually make one.

About the Hypostasis. We literally have a description of the Hypostasis, saying "Nothing is known about them". The item isn't clear on whether it's just some baseless rumor or has validity to it. Even if it is valid, just possessing the energy does not mean it can unleash attacks like that.
 
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TacticalNuke002 said:
Got to AR36 and did the Venti Story Quest. Seems like he has a few not really that combat applicable abilities. He can see what people are imagining, but not hear what they are thinking. He can manipulate souls but only those of dead people, not rip them out of living people (or if he can, he chooses not to). He can shapeshift but likely appearances only and he isn't abandoning his bard form anytime soon. Also Barbatos, then a wisp, and the bard Venti rebelled against Decarabian, the ex-Archon/dictator of Monstadt and killed him, but the bard Venti died. After which Barbatos adopted his appearance. Decarabian, being the god of storms would at least be stronger than Dvalin.
Click to expand...
Venti was using an item to see those things. He was testing it for Lisa. He can't just do that. What souls did he manipulate? You talking about the ending? I thought that was an illusion he was showing him, lol.
About that fight... hard to scale anything from back then, since an archon's power is based on how well they act upon their role and such and we only have limited info about that time.
 
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