Genshin Impact General Discussion!

[RatherClueless]

Do you have sources for strategic places being needed?

two, actually. Gimme a sec.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

two, actually. Gimme a sec.

Okay.

 

[Pikaman]

That depends on whether or not there is a relevant difference in power. If the relevant differences can be summed up as being a matter of differing abilities and powers and than two tabs should be enough for the sake of accuracy.

I’m doing this from memory but didn’t Ei beat the Shogun in every dual they had for the hundreds of years they were in Makoto’s memory thing or whatever? That implies a power gap that’s substantial enough

 

[RatherClueless]

"Or that time she taught her how to identify Starsnatch Cliff's load-bearing points, then place explosive charges accordingly to bring the whole thing down..."- Klee Character Story 5

"The Anemo Archon is a bit too undisciplined for me. If I were a god, I would not have allowed my realm to look so unorganized and ragged. With enough bombs placed in proper positions, even huge cliffs like Starsnatch would crumble into dust in a second. With flatter terrain, Mondstadt would surely look much nicer.
But that unctuous Cavalry Captain rejected my proposal instantly. He even asked me to stay away from Starsnatch Cliff." - Teyvat Travel Guide Vol. 1

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I’m doing this from memory but didn’t Ei beat the Shogun in every dual they had for the hundreds of years they were in Makoto’s memory thing or whatever? That implies a power gap that’s substantial enough

That's assuming that this was a matter of brute force since things like skill and different abilities can affect something like that.

 

[Arkenis]

I gotta ask though, why not make a CRT to revolutionise the verse in the way you say it needs?

I’m just asking out of curiosity, I’ve only been here a few months and I’m curious about people’s thoughts about the verse in general

pretty sure a crt is up rn for genshin. There should be a crt for abilities though since there's a ton of issues and disagreements

 

[Pikaman]

"Or that time she taught her how to identify Starsnatch Cliff's load-bearing points, then place explosive charges accordingly to bring the whole thing down..."- Klee Character Story 5

"The Anemo Archon is a bit too undisciplined for me. If I were a god, I would not have allowed my realm to look so unorganized and ragged. With enough bombs placed in proper positions, even huge cliffs like Starsnatch would crumble into dust in a second. With flatter terrain, Mondstadt would surely look much nicer.
But that unctuous Cavalry Captain rejected my proposal instantly. He even asked me to stay away from Starsnatch Cliff." - Teyvat Travel Guide Vol. 1

Though Klee should scale to/above Diluc and Jean right? So 7-B. I hate the Bamboo Forest calc tbh but still with the current scaling the justification is there

 

[Pikaman]

pretty sure a crt is up rn for genshin. There should be a crt for abilities though since there's a ton of issues and disagreements

Wait really? Could you link it?

 

[Arkenis]

Wait really? Could you link it?

I don't know what it is or have link. ill check for it

 

[RatherClueless]

Doesn’t Klee should scale to/above Diluc and Jean right? So 7-B. I hate the Bamboo Forest calc too tbh but still with the current scaling the justification is there

No she shouldn't. Nothing besides one guy ever made a statement of Klee > Diluc/Jean. Why would anyone even scale to the weapon? Also, yes, the calc is awful.

 

[Arkenis]

What's wrong with the bamboo calc?

 

[Arkenis]

We still have the Razor storm calc but that also seems like its weather manipulation rather than ap

 

[RatherClueless]

No she shouldn't. Nothing besides one guy ever made a statement of Klee > Diluc/Jean. Why would anyone even scale to the weapon? Also, yes, the calc is awful.

The funniest thing about this is that this man thought Klee > Jean/Diluc based on explosions with a diameter of only a few meters. Tells you a lot about what he thinks Jean/Diluc can do

 

[Pikaman]

No she shouldn't. Nothing besides one guy ever made a statement of Klee > Diluc/Jean. Why would anyone even scale to the weapon? Also, yes, the calc is awful.

It’s less the weapon and more Guhua performing the feat, which scales to stuff like Ganyu and

Wait actually wtf is that scaling

 

[Nehz_XZX]

"Or that time she taught her how to identify Starsnatch Cliff's load-bearing points, then place explosive charges accordingly to bring the whole thing down..."- Klee Character Story 5

"The Anemo Archon is a bit too undisciplined for me. If I were a god, I would not have allowed my realm to look so unorganized and ragged. With enough bombs placed in proper positions, even huge cliffs like Starsnatch would crumble into dust in a second. With flatter terrain, Mondstadt would surely look much nicer.
But that unctuous Cavalry Captain rejected my proposal instantly. He even asked me to stay away from Starsnatch Cliff." - Teyvat Travel Guide Vol. 1

Okay, they do mention strategic placements for performing the described feats though the scale still makes this rather impressive.

We still have the Razor storm calc but that also seems like its weather manipulation rather than ap

That depends on whether or not the energy used for that can be scales to Razor's other abilities due to presumably being enabled by his Vision which can be the topic of a discussion of its own.

It’s less the weapon and more Guboa (or however you spell it I always get it wrong) performing the feat, which scales to stuff like Ganyu and

Wait actually wtf is that scaling

I believe you are referring to Guhua and not Ganyu. RatherClueless was also talking about the scaling and not the feat used for it.

 

[RatherClueless]

What's wrong with the bamboo calc?

it assumes the largest bamboo forest in the world for starters.

besides that my main issue is that we even use this for anything. Even if we take the eat at face value, no one should scale as this was a character feat, not a weapon feat.

 

[Pikaman]

For the record I agree with the Razor storm calc if that’s what we’re discussing now

 

[Nehz_XZX]

it assumes the largest bamboo forest in the world for starters.

besides that my main issue is that we even use this for anything. Even if we take the eat at face value, no one should scale as this was a character feat, not a weapon feat.

Isn't this being a character feat the point? The Adeptus are scaled to Guhua according to the verse page.

 

[RatherClueless]

For the record I agree with the Razor storm calc if that’s what we’re discussing now

currently have an ongoning thread to get rid of these calcs as a whole. Kinda getting postponed indeffinetly tho.

Regardless, the scaling is actually weird. It scaling to anything else than that specific attack doesnt make much sense tbh.

 

[RatherClueless]

Isn't this being a character feat the point? The Adeptus are scaled to Guhua according to the verse page.

why would they scale? Was there a statement or a fight?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

why would they scale? Was there a statement or a fight?

It has apparently something to do with people believing that Guhua is an Adeptus though I don't know the exact details. You can find out more here and here.

 

[Pikaman]

It has apparently something to do with people believing that Guhua is an Adeptus though I don't know the exact details. You can find out more here and here.

Then why is Ganyu, a half Adeptus, scaling to him?

 

[Pikaman]

currently have an ongoning thread to get rid of these calcs as a whole. Kinda getting postponed indeffinetly tho.

Could you post a link to this? The more I hear the more I’m starting to think we could be due a scaling revamp

 

[RatherClueless]

It has apparently something to do with people believing that Guhua is an Adeptus though I don't know the exact details. You can find out more here and here.

that still doesnt mean much tho. An Adeptus such as Xiao >>> Ganyu or Yanfei. They vary greatly in strength just like gods. I wouldnt scale Morax to "retired" Venti or Venti to Osial, let alone any of them to Harvia. Just very clear differences. Being an adeptus doesnt mean much without more concrete evidence.

 

[RatherClueless]

Could you post a link to this? The more I hear the more I’m starting to think we could be due a scaling revamp

Sure thing.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Then why is Ganyu, a half Adeptus, scaling to him?

Didn't she fight in the Archon War alongside the other Adepti?

that still doesnt mean much tho. An Adeptus such as Xiao >>> Ganyu or Yanfei. They vary greatly in strength just like gods. I wouldnt scale Morax to "retired" Venti or Venti to Osial, let alone any of them to Harvia. Just very clear differences. Being an adeptus doesnt mean much without more concrete evidence.

I did say that I don't know the exact details.

 

[Pikaman]

that still doesnt mean much tho. An Adeptus such as Xiao >>> Ganyu or Yanfei. They vary greatly in strength just like gods. I wouldnt scale Morax to "retired" Venti or Venti to Osial, let alone any of them to Harvia. Just very clear differences. Being an adeptus doesnt mean much without more concrete evidence.

My general rule imo is that any Adepti > any human unless said human has feats against deities or similarly powered foes such as Beidou > Haishan or Shenhe freezing Beisht’s tsunami

 

[Pikaman]

Sure thing.

Thanks

 

[RatherClueless]

it assumes the largest bamboo forest in the world for starters.

Just gonna clarify. Not my only issue. It assumes a dome, which doesn't make uch sense for a swing. It also assumes that it was a 360° swing which is a bit weird.

Anyways. If we were accounting for everything, we are looking at differences into the thousands, getting it all the way down to ~Low 7-C or even just 8-A

 

[Pikaman]

I might compile all calcs and generally shared abilities into one big revision CRT where people can vote on what stays and goes, and from there we look at what to do

 

[Arkenis]

it assumes the largest bamboo forest in the world for starters.

besides that my main issue is that we even use this for anything. Even if we take the eat at face value, no one should scale as this was a character feat, not a weapon feat.

no one fought that character?

 

[Arkenis]

Just gonna clarify. Not my only issue. It assumes a dome, which doesn't make uch sense for a swing. It also assumes that it was a 360° swing which is a bit weird.

Anyways. If we were accounting for everything, we are looking at differences into the thousands, getting it all the way down to ~Low 7-C or even just 8-A

Yea iirc Twig from NNT did a similar feat and only got 8-A I think. The 360 thing is pretty unusual.

 

[Arkenis]

Well I'm still on board with scaling whoever has willpower to the waster sword. breaking mountains or VF would be mountain level I believe so the verse would still be in the 7-A range.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

The fact that it is inconsistent with the manga (see Kaeya using a sword made of ice)

Not sure why exactly Kaeya did that in the manga (though it gives him Weapon Creation) but Amber was using a bow against Barnabas despite there not visibly being a bow with her prior to that. There is also a Voice-Over of the Traveler and Paimon discussing how the Traveler makes their sword appear and disappear, so that does seem to be explicitly canon. Jean using an actual sword in the manga without carrying a sheath with her is also in line with that.

The funniest thing about this is that this man thought Klee > Jean/Diluc based on explosions with a diameter of only a few meters. Tells you a lot about what he thinks Jean/Diluc can do

To be fair, Jean and Diluc don't have that high of a range either and we don't exactly have a full description of what he witnessed. Paimon found what he described impressive and an Abyss Mage took the information of her having the most powerful treasure seriously though in both cases they didn't exactly have precise or concrete knowledge which did lead into a fatal incident for the latter. Noteworthy is that the Traveler was impressed by the explosion that killed that Abyss Mage. There is also her apparently defeating the Primo Geovishap without a problem according to her Birthday Message.

 

[Arkenis]

For the record I agree with the Razor storm calc if that’s what we’re discussing now

But for ap scaling? I'm not too sure how we handle storm creation in regards to striking strength or how razor's power works

 

[RatherClueless]

Well I'm still on board with scaling whoever has willpower to the waster sword. breaking mountains or VF would be mountain level I believe so the verse would still be in the 7-A range.

The waster sword also says:

"The one who uses this heavy, edgeless two-handed greatsword knows this well:
It matters not what the weapon is, for it is the wielder's might that counts."

What's VF?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I'm not too sure how we handle storm creation in regards to striking strength or how razor's power works

That depends on whether or not the same energy that was used for that can be used with the other abilities that Razor's Vision grants him. In that case, any opponents that can tank his attacks would scale with their durability and Razor's Striking Strength would scale if he can damage them with physical strikes.

 

[RatherClueless]

Not sure why exactly Kaeya did that in the manga (though it gives him Weapon Creation) but Amber was using a bow against Barnabas despite there not visibly being a bow with her prior to that. There is also a Voice-Over of the Traveler and Paimon discussing how the Traveler makes their sword appear and disappear, so that does seem to be explicitly canon. Jean using an actual sword in the manga without carrying a sheath with her is also in line with that.

That wasnt the point. My point is that the way they fight is vastly different "in canon" than it is in gameplay.

 

[Pikaman]

What's VF?

Violent fragmentation I assume

 

[Pikaman]

The waster sword also says:

"The one who uses this heavy, edgeless two-handed greatsword knows this well:
It matters not what the weapon is, for it is the wielder's might that counts."

true but obviously the weapon you’re using will have some impact, this is even mentioned on Xiao’s profile on this wiki