Gennin level - Massively Hypersonic speed Calculations

[Xulrev]

I'm addressing an argument I saw up in the thread and simply pointing out what ought to be an obvious conclusion; apologies if you're upset over something so simple.

And I was unaware that all Raiton had undergone CRTs to prove they adhere to the Wiki's standards. Can someone link me to those, I find myself unable to find them?

Further, Kirin has an explicit statement of directing the lightning from the clouds, from the person utilizing the Jutsu itself. I don't see how one can presume otherwise.

 

[Omimi]

if this does not got accepted even thou its follow Wiki's standards

then other verse will have to remove their calc as well

 

[Xulrev]

@Omimi

That's perfectly fine, honestly, if 'other verses' haven't proven electrical attacks to adhere the standards of lightning.

Also, why the obsession with dragging other verses into Naruto threads, I'm a bit curious?

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Xulrev

So, do you agree that as long as they have real lightning characteristics, they should be accepted?

So your comment was useless, because that's what Raiton does and if he is rejected, many others will also be.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Omimi
That's perfectly fine, honestly, if 'other verses' haven't proven electrical attacks to adhere the standards of lightning.

Also, why the obsession with dragging other verses into Naruto threads, I'm a bit curious?

The lightning, follows the lightning standards, thus scales to average lightning speed, that is how it works.

 

[AstralKing7]

@Omimi

That's perfectly fine, honestly, if 'other verses' haven't proven electrical attacks to adhere the standards of lightning.

Also, why the obsession with dragging other verses into Naruto threads, I'm a bit curious?

Umm because that's called fairness ƒñ¿ƒñ»

 

[Xulrev]

@Most

My initial comment was on a quoted comment I saw several dozen comments in.

My second comment, my query for proof of Raiton exhibiting natural lightning characteristics per wiki standards, is not useless since I have not seen any proof such that 'All Raiton = Natural Lightning'. I keep seeing frequent assertions, sans evidence.

But of course I agree that if they have all characteristics they ought to be accepted and I'll argue vehemently in favor of that if given proof. It's how the wiki works.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

No opinion on that actual lightning, but will this be backwards scaled to Naruto series genin?

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Xulrev

Just read what I wrote to IMade.

Real features, Raiton supports more than 5 features. Therefore, there is evidence and so it was accepted. Therefore, there is no assertion, there is a fact. No one has scale, saying that because Kirin is fast and natural, all Raitons are. So your comment was nonsensical.

And you do not have to follow them all features, just a good number of them.

 

[AstralKing7]

Soo I really wanna know if the people who are in favor of downgrades actually know about the Naruto verse and Boruto series. The lightning feats have meet most of not damn near all requirements for real lightning by this wikis standards of u had read or watched the anime

 

[Omimi]

@Omimi
Also, why the obsession with dragging other verses into Naruto threads, I'm a bit curious?

i have to bring other verses where similar feat was accept but in narutos case its getting rejected

other verse get free pass but naruto have problem with same thing

this is double standard

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Sigurd

I do not think so.

It is said that the new generations generally surpass the old. Maybe you can have a "possible" for Naruto KN1 and Sasuke CS2.

 

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7, they show some features of electricity, but how many of them actually show lightning speed?

Why is the average lightning speed of the site used as the baseline for any Raiton Ninjutsu? I know that other users disagree with this too, the real cal howard has spoken out against this recently.

 

[Xulrev]

I keep getting assertions that 'All Raiton are Lightning as the wiki rules' but I have yet to see any scans showing a definition for [All Raiton] in that vein. I have seen your reply to IMade which only shows that some Raiton exhibit two characteristics of Lightning, which are simple characteristics of Electricity (conduct, and can paralyze).

The wiki page on Lightning specifies 'a few', not just two, however. As such I'm still on the fence about that.

 

[Sekkonds.]

There is a new Naruto upgrade each day..fof

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Damage

Because they follow with true characteristics. Soon, they are as fast as an average lightning. Unless he is told not to have such speed, he maintains it.

 

[Damage3245]

@Xulrev, it's worth noting that conducting is not limited to lightning chakra either. Killer B can conduct ordinary chakra down his blade.

 

[Xulrev]

@Omimi

The reason I ask is that saying 'Yeah, well [X] verse gets treated differently!' isn't actually a meaningful refutation of any point in this thread whatsoever, it's a simple deflection that ought to be taken to a new CRT altogether since it just derails.

 

[AstralKing7]

@AstralKing7, they show some features of electricity, but how many of them actually show lightning speed?

Why is the average lightning speed of the site used as the baseline for any Raiton Ninjutsu? I know that other users disagree with this too, the real cal howard has spoken out against this recently.

Cal is not knowledgeable on Naruto verse and he has even said that before

And u do realize other users barely know anything about Naruto verse right??

 

[Xulrev]

@Damage

That's a fair point I suppose. But that doesn't wholesale preclude the property of 'conductivity' from Raiton techniques, in my view. It is a strong argument for conductivity being a base property of chakra itself, however, so hmmm.

As it stands, the fact of the matter is that the argument 'Raiton = Lightning' is as strong as 'A strong static shock = Lightning' based on the fact that only (arguably) two conditions are met which base electricity also meets.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Xulrev

First ... Raiton is a set of jutsus of the same nature. They all do the same thing, unless some of them have specific characteristics, such as being shaped in another way, like Kirin for example.
So, try to bring them as something unique each, does not work. They do not even have senjutsu or something, to say that they can be treated as different techniques.

Second ... This is completely FALSE.
Raiton moves like electricity and has electricity characteristics and also shows up consistently fast.
His weakness is also like those of natural lightning, with rubber and wind being effective against him, both being NATURAL INSULATORS. They are not criteria for the site, but still show natural properties so it is still true.
And they are also consistently shown to have the power of lightning.

And even if it were true, two features are already more than enough evidence.

 

[MostPowerfull]

About conductivity ... Raiton is still conductive. It leads on water, metal and etc.

The pure chakra can also be forced into blades to increase power ... They are not exactly conduite, it is like saying that increase the statistics with the chakra = conductivity.

 

[Xulrev]

@Most

Yes, they are all Lightning Release, but that's an Association Fallacy (see, it was a relevant after all!) to presume they're all the same in all physical properties just by being the same name.

You keep repeating only two criteria however, and that's not truly adequate from where I stand to prove they're all Lightning. As I pointed out, even static electricity has the properties we are wanting to attribute to all Raiton. The 'power of lightning' is a high standard that hasn't been consistently met by all Raiton from the evidence I've seen, no explicit mention of how much current or energy is being carried is given.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Xulrev

Not just because they are of the same elemental nature, but because they all have exactly the same characteristics.
Trying to force a fallacy where it does not exist is bizarre!

I do not care if you're blind! There are more than two real features, though by Wikia's criteria, are only three criteria.
I do not give a damn about static electricity, they're not Raiton!
All Raitons can hurt common ninjas, which are already Building level at the very least.
So, I do not care how you feel about it, if you ignore it and keep talking nonsense. It would not be the first time!

 

[AstralKing7]

Mitsuki snake light has been shown to move through water, paralysis, heart stopping,


Raikage's lightning has shown conductivity, paralysis, and it effects the nervous system

Killer bees lightning has shown conductivity, paralysis, and electrolysis since Suigetsus body started to decompose

Darius lightning has shown electrolysis, conductivity, and paralysis

Boruto's lightning has shown conductivity with water and metal, paralysis,

 

[Xulrev]

You're presuming that since at least one exhibits all properties, that all must exhibit those properties. It doesn't logically follow.

The personal insults only weaken your own validity, Most. I do believe I'm being reasonable by simply asking for proof of a rather wide-reaching statement.

The best you can argue for is that Raiton, arguably, fit two criteria of Lightning. These two criteria are ones which any and all things made of electricity fit (since electricity conducts through various substances by definition, and electricity causes muscle spasms by definition).

It's a severely weak case and why I request case-by-case proof, and why I presumed such CRTs had already been extant for such a bold claim to be so readily made.

 

[Omimi]

The only comment I have on this thread:

?

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Xulrev

They are all part of the same elemental jutsus, showing 90% of the time the same thing. And I forgot to say, that the most common use of Raiton (to drive it by a metal), is capable of causing electrolysis in Suigetsu's body.
If you do not know this, you should not comment.

Calling you blind is not an insult! This is not the first time you've ignored what people are talking about, with their smug English.
I have already sent IMade more than 5 real features, 3 of them being the criteria of Wikia. If you ignore it, I do not care!

Nope. Not everyone, otherwise, would not be a criterion.
Weaknesses are not criteria, but they can be argued for. The name of this is called NEW INFORMATION.

Soon, it does not matter if you ignore that they are part of the same group of jutsus.

 

[Rocker1189]

You're presuming that since at least one exhibits all properties, that all must exhibit those properties. It doesn't logically follow.
The personal insults only weaken your own validity, Most. I do believe I'm being reasonable by simply asking for proof of a rather wide-reaching statement.

The best you can argue for is that Raiton, arguably, fit two criteria of Lightning. These two criteria are ones which any and all things made of electricity fit (since electricity conducts through various substances by definition, and electricity causes muscle spasms by definition).

It's a severely weak case and why I request case-by-case proof, and why I presumed such CRTs had already been extant for such a bold claim to be so readily made.

All lightning jutsu have the same properties, the only difference is their shape and power. They are all electrical discharges, that should be more than enough.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

What he is asking is how do you tell it's actual lightning instead of electricity since they both share similar standards.

 

[Sekkonds.]

Mitsuki snake light has been shown to move through water

That actually debunks it being natural lightning because natural lightning can't do that at all

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Sekkonds

What? LMAO!

 

[Sekkonds.]

@MostPowerfull

What's so funny?you can have a look through the internet..lightning spreads over water

It moving through water in one line isn't natural at all

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Sekkonds

The name of this is called conductivity, man. That's what Astral said.

A property shown by Raiton.

 

[Rocker1189]

What he is asking is how do you tell it's actual lightning instead of electricity since they both share similar standards.

?? lightning is electricity, the only difference is that one is in the air, which lightning jutsu are and thus are lightning.

 

[BlackeJan]

Tryna figure out why this is being argued when we even have evidence and databooks that proves it....

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Sigurd
I do not think so.

It is said that the new generations generally surpass the old. Maybe you can have a "possible" for Naruto KN1 and Sasuke CS2.

I see. Assuming it's not an outlier and it gets accepted here I suppose that would probably be fine.

 

[Jvando]

From the wiki:

"Lightning that has demonstrated at a minimum a few properties that real lightning has, and significantly less properties that lightning shouldn't have, can be considered real. Some examples of favourable properties are: making muscles of affected beings contract, having an (electro)magnetic field, being shown to actually move with a speed similar to lightning, flowing through conducting materials, the character being able to manipulate real electricity or electromagnetism in general, generating ozone or causing electrolysis."

And "Additionally, for calculations that involve lightning speed, one has to consider that the speed of real electricity can change due to a variety of factors, but for practical purposes, concerning attacks that are electricity-based, if they display power comparable to that of natural lightning, they should be considered to move at a comparable speed. It is required to show that the electricity carries an energy of at least 5 billion Joules or a voltage of at least 100 million Volts in order to qualify."

I think @MostPowerfull already pointed out like 3 properties of lightning that this wiki accepts and a few others as a bonus. Also, I hope the second paragraph somewhat answers your inquiry @Sigurd

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Sigurd

Particularly ... I do not agree that Naruto KN1 and CS2 Sasuke of Naruto Classic have such speed, it would sound like an outlier to him in that part of the manga (though Naruto faced Zabuza and kept up with Kabuto).

I feel as if Sumire or the Son of Gaara could easily defeat them.

 

[Xulrev]

@Jvando

MostPowerfull has pointed out two properties. The rest actually aren't meaningful to the wiki's standards for Lightning. Furthermore, we don't have consistent proof they're comparable to real lightning's power.

This is why I had presumed numerous CRTs already existed to cover individual Raiton cuz it's a quite expansive claim to make without exorbitant evidence at the ready to support it.