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Gennin level - Massively Hypersonic speed Calculations

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Damage3245 said:
Few Lightning Style Ninjutsu have been noted for their speed. Most of the time their speed seems comparable to the other elements.

As far as I can recall there is no statement in the Naruto manga or databooks that all Lightning Style Ninjutsu travels at comparable speeds, or that all of them can be compared to natural lightning in terms of speed.

@Jvando; There is actually a maximum recorded wind speed of 408 km/h according to wikipedia.
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That is not my point, of course most of the time they are comparable, people have to fight against lightning style users a lot. And even then lightning style is general faster.

It is in implication, they are all exlectrical discharges, literally what is made from chakra works exactly like the real thing the moment it has been made.
 
@Damage

Simple ... Because most characters are as fast as lightning or can react to them and can cast their techniques as fast as. This does not disapprove of Raiton having such speed. So either he has the speed of lightining or he is not real and he has not, and everything we saw in the manga is false.

No need when the Raiton follows various characteristics of real lightning.

NOTE - I'm finding it fun as you ignore me, to avoid debating and being debunked.
 
"Seems comparable" your opinion.

We can compare them to natural because of the fact that they meet the requirements Damage.
 
I'm sure there's probably some variation in speed between lighting users, just like there is in real life lighting.

But besides that.

If we are trying to say that something is "real lighting" in a fictional verse and therefore travels at lighting speed, does it have to be explicitly stated or noted within the series? I'm pretty sure they just have to show the properties of real lighting, according to our guidelines, to be considered as such. Hence, even if there is no explicit statement detailing lightning jutsu's speed, we can't just say "it isn't lightning/does't travel at lightning speeds" despite there being a good amount of evidence to the contrary.
 
Kirin is faster than natural lightning btw anyway.

Zetsu made that statement which u guys are using. Zetsu who is on the same team as Kakuzu knows about his abilities. We can't forget that Kakuzu has lightning jutsu that is literally the speed of lightning


So either Zetsu lied about Kirin being faster than lightning jutsu or Kirin is faster than normal lightning which is obvious
 
MostPowerfull said:
@Damage
NOTE - I'm finding it fun as you ignore me, to avoid debating and being debunked.
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There's like four or five people that I'd have to respond to each time.

Don't take it personally if I don't happen to respond to your posts at a certain time.
 
Out of curiosity, Kirin is calculated to be like what - Mach 5000 Or something?

What is the fastest recorded speed of lightning?
 
MostPowerfull said:
@Damage
Simple ... Because most characters are as fast as lightning or can react to them and can cast their techniques as fast as. This does not disapprove of Raiton having such speed. So either he has the speed of lightining or he is not real and he has not, and everything we saw in the manga is false.

No need when the Raiton follows various characteristics of real lightning.
Click to expand...
Characters in Naruto, generally speaking, only have lightning speeds because of the assumption that some of their jutsu travel at lightning speed.

Raiton has some characteristics of lightning / electricity, sure. But if we're going to say that Wind-based jutsu can travel at any speed regardless of how fast wind travels naturally, then it stands to reason that Lightning-based jutsu can also travel at different speeds too. Otherwise it seems we're being rather selective.

@Jvando; Kirin has had a few different calcs for it. The current one on the verse page is like Mach 2900 IIRC. I'm sure there was another one that is Mach 5000.

But if I think there is a bit of a problem with Zetsu's statement. His statement of' 'it travels at 1/1000 of second' would only make sense if clouds had a fixed height. But they clearly do not.
 
Wrath Of Itachi said:
The currently accepted is Mach 3K, but there are like 2 or 3 recalls of it that put it between Mach 6k and like 10k.
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Ohh wow...that's crazy
 
Damage3245 said:
Characters in Naruto, generally speaking, only have lightning speeds because of the assumption that some of their jutsu travel at lightning speed.

Raiton has some characteristics of lightning / electricity, sure. But if we're going to say that Wind-based jutsu can travel at any speed regardless of how fast wind travels naturally, then it stands to reason that Lightning-based jutsu can also travel at different speeds too. Otherwise it seems we're being rather selective.

@Jvando; Kirin has had a few different calcs for it. The current one on the verse page is like Mach 2900 IIRC. I'm sure there was another one that is Mach 5000.

But if I think there is a bit of a problem with Zetsu's statement. His statement of' 'it travels at 1/1000 of second' would only make sense if clouds had a fixed height. But they clearly do not.
Click to expand...
Because some of their jutsu do, its not an assumption.

yes they do, which is why we use average speeds. Its not selective it is the wiki standard.

yeah.

they do not but we can calc their heights.
 
@Damage

False. As I said sternly, the Raiton has several natural properties. Therefore, it is not assumed, it POSSES them, following the criteria of Wikia.

No. Wind and others do not have a specific speed, Raiton yes, because it has several natural characteristics. The others just get scaled with it. It is not being selective, it is that the attacks simply escalate to them, for being as fast as he.

Do not even try to get your stuff on Calc Stacking. You've received a debunked before so.
 
@Mostpowerfull; are you saying that there no such thing as an average speed for wind?
 
AstralKing7 said:
Can I ask what does wind nature jutsus have to do with anything here???
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The point is this; the claim is that since Lightning Style Ninjutsu are made of lightning, that they must all be assumed to travel at average lightning speed.

But Wind Style Ninjutsu, which is made of wind, isn't assumed to tavel at average wind speed.

Seems a bit selective to me.
 
@Damage

No, I'm telling you that the wind scales at lightning, as they have shown to be so fast, although Raiton is still the fastest element and is constantly seen.

A small gust of wind is not able to accelerate to the point of cutting someone in the middle, much less a superhuman as in fiction.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Mostpowerfull; are you saying that there no such thing as an average speed for wind?
Click to expand...
He is saying that the winds keep up with the lightning and wind going at an average speed can never do what wind in Naruto(or most verses for that matter) does, essentially confirming it to be much faster.
 
MostPowerfull said:
@Damage
No, I'm telling you that the wind scales at lightning, as they have shown to be so fast, although Raiton is still the fastest element and is constantly seen.
Click to expand...
Why does it have to be that way? Why can't it also be assumed that Raiton is slower than actual lightning?

@Rocker, :MostPowerful; if there is no set speed for Wind Style Ninjutsu, then it makes just as much sense for there to be no set speed for Lightning Style Ninjutsu.
 
Damage3245 said:
Why does it have to be that way? Why can't it also be assumed that Raiton is slower than actual lightning?
Click to expand...
Because authors, righting lightning attacks probably expect them to move at lightning speed, or it is not lightning is it?

Also raiton's descriptions all point to it being lightnign speed.
 
Rocker1189 said:
Because authors, righting lightning attacks probably expect them to move at lightning speed, or it is not lightning is it?

Also raiton's descriptions all point to it being lightnign speed.
Click to expand...
How many descriptions of Raiton techniques state that they move at the speed of lightning?
 
Damage3245 said:
How many descriptions of Raiton techniques state that they move at the speed of lightning?
Click to expand...
likely 2 or 3?

there is also one for sasuke's lightning spear thing that states that it is an electrical discharge. which means it is likely lightnign speed.
 
@Damage

Because the raiton showed characteristics of natural lightning and the only natural lightning of the verse, it is faster than normal.

Therefore, nothing prevents you from having that speed, following the wikia criteria. Simple!
 
Why does it have to be that way? Why can't it also be assumed that Raiton is slower than actual lightning?

@Rocker, :MostPowerful; if there is no set speed for Wind Style Ninjutsu, then it makes just as much sense for there to be no set speed for Lightning Style Ninjutsu.


Tbf we aren't supposed to assume things like that first of all when it's not shown to be any different than real life

You logic is like assuming a Naruto verse doesn't have a Mars or Jupiter because it's not proven even tho it's a normal setting based off of real life
 
Tmw u realize the calc was already accepted ƒñªÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å
 
Issue with Zetsu is he gives us only one speed, faster than sound. 1/1000s is a timeframe, and we're not given any distance from where lightning moves in that timeframe, so they're all assumptions.
 
Callsign Castle said:
Issue with Zetsu is he gives us only one speed, faster than sound. 1/1000s is a timeframe, and we're not given any distance from where lightning moves in that timeframe, so they're all assumptions.
Click to expand...

Everything has assumptions that's why we use the least amount.

This comment is irrelevant to this discussion at hand. This isn't about Kirin calc but just regular lightning speed.
 
Callsign Castle said:
All lightning feats should use the wiki's speed. However all jutsu can be altered in size and power.
Click to expand...
yes, which is why we use the average unless it can be calced like Kirin, you guys are acting like this is a new thing to the wiki.
 
The only comment I have on this thread:

The argument, 'Since Kirin is a Raiton technique, and since Kirin travels at the speed of lightning, all Raiton techniques are lightning-speed', is a textbook definition of a Fallacy by Association argument and therefore invalid as argumentation.

The calc itself appears to be fine aside from the presumption of the Raiton speed, which seems to be a major crux from what I gather in this thread.

Other argumentation for "Lightning Release Jutsu = Lightning speed" must be made to presume as such, to wit.

To better highlight why it's fallacious, though, and preempt having to bother with that:

[Kirin] is a [Raiton] = [X] is [Y]


[Kirin] moves at [natural lightning speed] = [X] is [Z]


Therefore, [Raiton] all move at [natural lightning speed] = [Y] is [Z]

There is no formal logic connexcting [Y] to [Z] in the arguments made, thus it can be thrown out safely.
 
@Astral

Do not answer, dude.

The least he needs is to read the thread. If you can not even do that, then we do not have to answer that.
 
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