General OPM Revision Thread

[Damage3245]

To clear things up, the logic there is that Garou, before using Awakening breath, was able to withstand a hit from awakening breath bang at the very start of the fight, which means base forms only downscale from awakening breath, and base bang is ≈ bomb
But also, moments before the leg was broken, bomb was still capable of trading a blow equally with Garou, so he should still have comparable AP. An at most rating is objectively the only thing that fits, since not scaling at all completely discredits the fact that they were literally able to somewhat match eachother

They were able to match each other. At the time. But then Garou got stronger, so there is no reason for Bomb to be scaling to the feat.

 

[Damage3245]

One-Punch Man: Hammerhead

vsbattles.fandom.com

@Damage3245 I made adjustments using the Rotational Kinetic Energy method.

I've evaluated it.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

They were able to match each other. At the time. But then Garou got stronger, so there is no reason for Bomb to be scaling to the feat.

The last attack thrown in their fight quite literally shows Garou punching him in the face, actually, and he withstands that with minor injury at best
it’s a completely valid downscale

 

[Damage3245]

The last attack thrown in their fight quite literally shows Garou punching him in the face, actually, and he withstands that with minor injury at best
it’s a completely valid downscale

An attack which took Bomb out of the fight? Nah, I'm not in favor of Bomb downscaling from Garou's later feat.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

An attack which took Bomb out of the fight? Nah, I'm not in favor of Bomb downscaling from Garou's later feat.

An attack that left him completely conscious
he was taken out of the fight because he was already weakened and was in a bad position and got stepped on by Garou. Not downscaling from an attack that he quite literally withstands is insanity.

 

[Damage3245]

An attack that left him completely conscious
he was taken out of the fight because he was already weakened and was in a bad position and got stepped on by Garou. Not downscaling from an attack that he quite literally withstands is insanity.

I don't see that as solid grounds for 7-A scaling; between that moment in the fight and Garou performing the 7-A feat (which is with a stronger attack than just an elbow to the face), Garou gets significantly stronger. We're not going to make Bomb 7-A on such flimsy reasoning.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I don't see that as solid grounds for 7-A scaling; between that moment in the fight and Garou performing the 7-A feat (which is with a stronger attack than just an elbow to the face), Garou gets significantly stronger. We're not going to make Bomb 7-A on such flimsy reasoning.

7-B+ or something then

If your argument is that he grew stronger since then, you would be arguing that bang doesn’t scale either, since bomb’s scaling comes from Bang
here’s the reversed timeline of scaling to help us discuss it better
Garou does the 7-A feat which platinum sperm scales to
Ultimate hellfire burst wave motion cannon garou was able to damage platinum sperm
Awakening breath Bang slightly damaged a Awakening breath Garou who was essentially equivalent in power to that Garou
Base Garou was able to take a couple shots from AB bang (which means base can withstand hits from AB)
And then a weakened bomb is able to clash with and somewhat withstand a headshot from Base Garou, but more important he’s equal to base bang who should have a similar gap as AB and base Garou, which is less debatable than bomb enduring the smack to the face. Although AB enhancing durability to begin with is a bit of a sketchy take.

Anyways uh, what was this thread about again?

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think base Bang should be scaling either, yeah.

 

[Recon1511]

Jesus Ziller shut up

 

[Therefir]

I always thought scaling characters from a previous Garou was stupid, it would be like scaling Platinum Sperm to Multi-Continent level because Garou was able to hurt Sage Centipede a few moments later.

Also Bomb seems really surprised by Garou one-shotting Vomited Fuhrer Ugly, which means it's something he cannot do.

 

[Damage3245]

Jesus Ziller shut up

A bit ruder than I would put it.

But yeah, I think we're all on the same page on this except for Ziller.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I always thought scaling characters from a previous Garou was stupid, it would be like scaling Platinum Sperm to Multi-Continent level because Garou was able to hurt Sage Centipede a few moments later.

There’s a very big difference
in the very final attack of the fight, bang and Garou traded blows and Garou took a bit of damage
at the end of the platinum sperm fight, Garou was able to plow through and literally blow platinum sperm into dust and then went on to not really be able to do anything to Sage centipede in the next attack.
Do you see why one is different from the other?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Jesus Ziller shut up

When I spot something wrong I am going to say it regardless of if you agree with me or not.

 

[Therefir]

"Sub-Relativistic+ (Kept up with Bomb and Awakening Breath Bang while asleep)"

There is something wrong with Post-Darkshine Garou's speed, neither of these characters are Sub-Relativistic+ by themselves, and Bang is circular scaling from Garou.

He should be like this: "At least Massively Hypersonic+, up to FTL" if we are going with the logic of Garou getting from Base Bomb level to Platinum Sperm level.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The speed scaling is less likely since Garou literally just hit sperm with a sneak attack so that’s fine, and everybody scaling to flashy flash would be ****** up anyways

 

[Recon1511]

"Sub-Relativistic+ (Kept up with Bomb and Awakening Breath Bang while asleep)"

There is something wrong with Post-Darkshine Garou's speed, neither of these characters are Sub-Relativistic+ by themselves, and Bang is circular scaling from Garou.

He should be like this: "At least Massively Hypersonic+, up to FTL" if we are going with the logic of Garou getting from Base Bomb level to Platinum Sperm level.

Iirc the logic is that Garou just moments afterwards beating Bang was able to dodge a Flashy Flash attack from behind.

 

[ByAsura]

There’s a very big difference
in the very final attack of the fight, bang and Garou traded blows and Garou took a bit of damage
at the end of the platinum sperm fight, Garou was able to plow through and literally blow platinum sperm into dust and then went on to not really be able to do anything to Sage centipede in the next attack.
Do you see why one is different from the other?

We're not really even scaling Awakened Bang to this anymore, since we can't be sure he was even using Awakened Breath by the point he performed the stomp.

An attack that left him completely conscious

His leg was broken in numerous places from a punch to the face.

Given how massive the will of some of the characters in this series are and that Tanktop Master was conscious with Tanktop power after getting crushed by Fuhrer, this means very little.

he was taken out of the fight because he was already weakened and was in a bad position and got stepped on by Garou. Not downscaling from an attack that he quite literally withstands is insanity.

Completely irrelevant. The same Bomb that fought this Garou was also weakened.

It doesn't change his durability, and your logic changes nothing.

 

[ByAsura]

But also, moments before the leg was broken, bomb was still capable of trading a blow equally with Garou, so he should still have comparable AP. An at most rating is objectively the only thing that fits, since not scaling at all completely discredits the fact that they were literally able to somewhat match eachother

Put more accurately, Garou cancelled his attack out.

It's a shockwave based attack, so Garou and Bomb wouldn't need to be equal for this to happen.

And regardless of whether they were or weren't equalling each other at that moment, Garou could've become stronger after cancelling it out.

And then a weakened bomb is able to clash with and somewhat withstand a headshot from Base Garou, but more important he’s equal to base bang who should have a similar gap as AB and base Garou, which is less debatable than bomb enduring the smack to the face. Although AB enhancing durability to begin with is a bit of a sketchy take.

Bang fought an even stronger Garou for a much longer time than Bomb, and only got the same organ grinding treatment after Garou started spamming attacks that bypassed durability.

It's not a sketchy take to assume this. It may as well be a fact.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

We're not really even scaling Awakened Bang to this anymore, since we can't be sure he was even using Awakened Breath by the point he performed the stomp.

It doesn’t really matter what he was doing during the stomp, since he was capable of damaging platinum sperm before the stomp happened

His leg was broken in numerous places from a punch to the face.

Which isn’t possible, unless the leg being broken happened off screen.
not to mention, even people in real life are able to break eachother’s legs while still being able to take attacks from them otherwise, so the fact that it happened off screen is important.
If he really hit bomb’s face with enough force to break his leg, then his face would have just exploded. So no, we are not going to assume that being punched in the face caused his leg to break, that’s silly.

 

[ByAsura]

It doesn’t really matter what he was doing during the stomp, since he was capable of damaging platinum sperm before the stomp happened

Which happened after he fought Bang and went ******* ballistic. The same Garou that punched PS is not necessarily the same Garou that fought AB Bang, but it is the same Garou that fought Platinum Sperm.

Which isn’t possible, unless the leg being broken happened off screen.

We see it later and no attack happened between, so it occurred off-panel when he got punched, not off-screen. You can't deny it literally being shown to us.

This isn't really a valid counter to anything, especially since we see that Bomb has to crawl around and can't get up.

not to mention, even people in real life are able to break eachother’s legs while still being able to take attacks from them otherwise, so the fact that it happened off screen is important.

Not with strikes to the face.

If he really hit bomb’s face with enough force to break his leg, then his face would have just exploded.

Who says it would have? The rest of his body isn't broken, like his leg, so no.

So no, we are not going to assume that being punched in the face caused his leg to break, that’s silly.

It's what happened.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Which happened after he went ******* ballistic.

Bro was angery.
Anyways punching platinum sperm is the very first thing he did after cutting through ugly like he wasn’t there, AD wouldn’t make a tangible difference.

We see it later and no attack happened between, so it occurred off-panel when he got punched, not off-screen. You can't deny it literally being shown to us.

His leg was broken, but the punch to the face obviously isn’t what did it
especially since we see them in completely new positions the moment bang steps in, which just proves that a little more happened off screen.

Not with strikes to the face.

Of course not.

Who says it would have? The rest of his body isn't broken, like his leg, so no.

The most obvious interpretation of events is that Garou punched him on the face, bomb fell down, and Garou stomped on his leg causing it to break (which is still doable for 2 people of the same tier)
which is also the direct explanation for why Garou is standing on top of him in the very next frame bomb is in, despite that being a completely new position.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Also yeah, he could’ve grown stronger off screen if the breaking bomb’s leg happened off screen, that’s the obvious counterargument there
But more importantly, Base Garou was capable of taking a hit from AB bang, and that same AB bang was able to slightly damage AB garou, which shows that Base Garou is able to just downscale from his AB self anyways, which means the same should be true of base bang, who scales to bomb.
It’s entirely possible to just say that base bang and bomb are both at most 7-A or something

 

[Damage3245]

Also yeah, he could’ve grown stronger off screen if the breaking bomb’s leg happened off screen, that’s the obvious counterargument there
But more importantly, Base Garou was capable of taking a hit from AB bang, and that same AB bang was able to slightly damage AB garou, which shows that Base Garou is able to just downscale from his AB self anyways, which means the same should be true of base bang, who scales to bomb.
It’s entirely possible to just say that base bang and bomb are both at most 7-A or something

Making their base selves relative to their Awakened selves is nonsensical since Bang seemed pretty sure he could defeat Elder Centipede alone with Awakening, when himself and his brother were unable to deal lethal damage to a weaker Elder Centipede while working together.

 

[ByAsura]

Bro was angery.
Anyways punching platinum sperm is the very first thing he did after cutting through ugly like he wasn’t there, AD wouldn’t make a tangible difference.

Unless the entire ass fight with Bang, in which he ate Bang's attack and got his face cracked open, made him stronger.

Also, Fuhrer literally disproves your point because he's equal to Darkshine, and this Garou one-shot him like it was nothing. Therefore no Bomb scaling.

His leg was broken, but the punch to the face obviously isn’t what did it

especially since we see them in completely new positions the moment bang steps in, which just proves that a little more happened off screen.

Yeah, Bomb fell over.

If Garou did randomly break his leg, it wouldn't be something that happened off-screen. Also, the rubble near his leg would've been broken up.

Also, cool, Garou wrecked him with a punch and then broke the shit out of his leg in a way that left multiple exposed wounds and created a large blood trail when he crawled. It's still highly doubtful that Bomb would scale at this point.

 

[Damage3245]

Bang was also able to keep up with Garou so well because he has Water-Stream Rock-Smashing Fist, which allows the user to return the strength of their opponents attacks back to them, and can parry incoming attacks from significantly stronger foes.

 

[ByAsura]

For the sake of objectivity, I don't think it'd matter at that point.

For one, the TTM quote shows a picture of the opponent getting punched rather than redirecting the punch, implying it's just an expression (i.e, return ten-fold).

Secondly, Garou was using the exact same and superior techniques.

 

[Damage3245]

For the sake of objectivity, I don't think it'd matter at that point.

For one, the TTM quote shows a picture of the opponent getting punched, implying it's just an expression (i.e, return ten-fold).

Secondly, Garou was using the exact same and superior techniques.

Fair. I just don't think it was a non-factor in why Bang was able to last as long as he did.

 

[ByAsura]

I think that's true to an extent, but Bang was definitely equal to Garou before the Explosive Release Fist.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

This my opinion pre reading the chat,

Bomb shouldn’t be scaling at all, Garou grew to the point of scrambling his bones before he learned his “dura negation” and awakening breath.

I don’t believe Bang should scale either, Garou was strong enough to one shot him with his “dura negation” but what is his dura negation? It specializes in shockwaves which traverse the opponents body and inflict damage.
It’s only considered DN because it attack organs but it doesn’t actually negate durability. Meaning the bones durability aren’t instantly ignored or anything.

Its stated by both Bang and Bomb that his bones would be pulverized if he was hit even once, meaning Garou’s ap at that point was strong enough to one shot Bang.

This technique is never stated to be a multiplier or stronger than their normal abilities, if anything you could argue it’s slightly weaker due to the cross slayer dragon fist thing.

The attack used against Rover is stated> the dura negation attack Garou uses, with this stronger technique literally being Bang and Bomb attacking Rover with their normal attacks at the same time.

What does all of this mean? How is it possible for Garou to one shot Bang if they’re apparently “relative” in strength?

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I think that's true to an extent, but Bang was definitely equal to Garou before the Explosive Release Fist.

I agree, they were indeed equal but after a while I think it’s evident that Garou grew above Bang.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Also, Fuhrer literally disproves your point because he's equal to Darkshine, and this Garou one-shot him like it was nothing. Therefore no Bomb scaling.

He’s not equal in durability, and in fact he may be even lower than his own AP when it comes to durability due to the fact that his acid is constantly eating his own flesh, to the point where his eye couldn’t even stay in its socket

Yeah, Bomb fell over.

If Garou did randomly break his leg, it wouldn't be something that happened off-screen. Also, the rubble near his leg would've been broken up.

Kinda like how his face would have been broken before his leg would have, but according to you the bone in his leg is weaker than his face to such an insane degree that it broke without even being hit
so maybe the rubble just didn’t break, or maybe they just moved, since they objectively did get in new positions off screen regardless.

Also, cool, Garou wrecked him with a punch and then broke the shit out of his leg in a way that left multiple exposed wounds and created a large blood trail when he crawled. It's still highly doubtful that Bomb would scale at this point.

Well I mean of course his leg would be bleeding from it, but as I said before it is still entirely possible in real life for human beings of comparable strength to break eachother’s legs with a good stomp.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

This my opinion pre reading the chat,

Bomb shouldn’t be scaling at all, Garou grew to the point of scrambling his bones before he learned his “dura negation” and awakening breath.

I don’t believe Bang should scale either, Garou was strong enough to one shot him with his “dura negation” but what is his dura negation? It specializes in shockwaves which traverse the opponents body and inflict damage.
It’s only considered DN because it attack organs but it doesn’t actually negate durability. Meaning the bones durability aren’t instantly ignored or anything.

Its stated by both Bang and Bomb that his bones would be pulverized if he was hit even once, meaning Garou’s ap at that point was strong enough to one shot Bang.

This technique is never stated to be a multiplier or stronger than their normal abilities, if anything you could argue it’s slightly weaker due to the cross slayer dragon fist thing.

The attack used against Rover is stated> the dura negation attack Garou uses, with this stronger technique literally being Bang and Bomb attacking Rover with their normal attacks at the same time.

What does all of this mean? How is it possible for Garou to one shot Bang if they’re apparently “relative” in strength?

For one, shockwaves can inherently ignore durability just via being shockwaves, something about vibrations moving molecules or something like that, but don’t quote me on that
Anyways, how he could be a one shot above him despite being relative is indeed the question

Even at the very end of the fight, bang is still able to damage him. This is the very absolute last attack of the fight, so no, he didn’t grow a one shot above bang at any point.

 

[ByAsura]

I don’t believe Bang should scale either, Garou was strong enough to one shot him with his “dura negation” but what is his dura negation? It specializes in shockwaves which traverse the opponents body and inflict damage.
It’s only considered DN because it attack organs but it doesn’t actually negate durability. Meaning the bones durability aren’t instantly ignored or anything.

Its stated by both Bang and Bomb that his bones would be pulverized if he was hit even once, meaning Garou’s ap at that point was strong enough to one shot Bang.

Disagree, but we probably won't be scaling Garou to that Bang anyway due to vagueness. So I won't get into it.

The fact that one-shotting Fuhrer and running off absolutely shocks Bomb is some good evidence that he evolved.

He’s not equal in durability, and in fact he may be even lower than his own AP when it comes to durability due to the fact that his acid is constantly eating his own flesh, to the point where his eye couldn’t even stay in its socket

He tanked a hit from Darkshine regardless. So, no.

Kinda like how his face would have been broken before his leg would have, but according to you the bone in his leg is weaker than his face to such an insane degree that it broke without even being hit

Never said that, or implied it.

I'm not suggesting the shockwave of the punch folded his leg like cardboard.

so maybe the rubble just didn’t break, or maybe they just moved, since they objectively did get in new positions off screen regardless.

Like it does literally everywhere else.

New positions =/= an attack that wasn't shown off-screen at all despite the fact that this kind of stuff is always shown.

Well I mean of course his leg would be bleeding from it, but as I said before it is still entirely possible in real life for human beings of comparable strength to break eachother’s legs with a good stomp.

Not in multiple exposed places like that.

Also, you're talking about something that's assisted by physics and gravity, like a hard counter surface. That isn't the case with characters whose bones are stronger than rock, and who are too strong to gain much assistance from gravity.

 

[Damage3245]

He’s not equal in durability, and in fact he may be even lower than his own AP when it comes to durability due to the fact that his acid is constantly eating his own flesh, to the point where his eye couldn’t even stay in its socket

He was unharmed by Darkshine's double-punch.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

this could be a problem

 

[ByAsura]

There is no problem. The solution is just not to scale Bomb and AB Bang to the stomp, which is more logical, consistent and perfectly explainable given what happens.

 

[Damage3245]

There is no problem. The solution is just not to scale Bomb and AB Bang to the stomp, which is more logical, consistent and perfectly explainable given what happens.

Agreed. I think this is the best way forward.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

As much as I would like to disagree with damage on an opm downgrade thread, I think I’m just going to say that Asura does make a bit of sense with the fuhrer ugly thing

 

[ByAsura]

Alright then, now that leaves a few things.

I need to finish the Nichirin calc.

In terms of AP, who would scale to Rover's durability (aside from Post-Darkshine Garou, Orochi, Saitama, etc)?

Should we downscale Golden Sperm from Platinum Sperm, or simply scale him above Darkshine? Of course, there's the Homeless Emperor stuff (which kind of infuriates me now, since he's High 7-A while PS level opponents are 7-A), but we're not handling that here.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Nobody scales to rover’s durability, he was unscratched by a technique STRONGER than what was able to shatter elder centipede’s entire shell, and he is never actually shown taking damage (besides from saitama)

Should we downscale Golden Sperm from Platinum Sperm, or simply scale him above Darkshine? Of course, there's the Homeless Emperor stuff (which kind of infuriates me now, since he's High 7-A while PS level opponents are 7-A), but we're not handling that here.

We should just make golden sperm downscale (yeah yeah I know) from sun blade, since he withstood an attack from something that could easily slice the high 7-A attack in half, and his arm was only like 20% cut into by the initial blow. We could also use the additional justification that psykos believed sperm and hemperor together could beat tatsumaki. It’s pretty obvious that golden sperm and homeless emperor are comparable.