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General DC Comics Discussion Thread

I mean, having more history doesn't mean they're stronger, especially with the ridiculous amount of anti feats they have.
We know Superman has more instances of being unable to move a planet than him being above Tier 3.

And by guidebooks and writers, that's even more consistent.
Been on a DC binge, reading any JL-related comic from 2016 to current, and yea I'm struggling to see the "consistently tier 2" meta I always see people appeal to, nevermind the ridiculous "Beast Boy is 1-B to 1-A" scaling that is rampant in communities like Death Battle and CSaP.

I've been told more recent comics have less large-scale feats, so maybe I need to read some silver age stuff, although even then if a character had consistent tier 2 scaling but then went through 3 decades of anti-feats and downscaling atp you just gotta concede that the tier 2 scaling is subject to being retconned.
 
And several characters only have a Post Crisis profile, no current, and vice versa, post flashpoint and no post crisis.

And Mongul, weirdly enough, only has a pre crisis and DCAU page, despite being a pretty prominent Superman and Green Lantern rogue.

I wish I was better at editing, I'd make a lot of these profiles myself.

Also, id love to make pages for the Absolute universe
 
If I want to go about reading every appearance for a character in DC, is there any good, definitive list or site, like Marvel Wiki or cmro-travis for Marvel? The DC Wiki is alphabetical, not from released date.
 
EVERY appearance?

Brother that would take decades.

Do you mean like keeping up with current character story arcs?
I don't want to read every appearance of A-List, I mean more minor locations/characters like Zerox, White Witch, etc. Even a site to keep up with some form of vague continuity arc would be fine.
 
If I want to go about reading every appearance for a character in DC, is there any good, definitive list or site, like Marvel Wiki or cmro-travis for Marvel? The DC Wiki is alphabetical, not from released date.

This site was really useful when I was making RTs

 
If I want to go about reading every appearance for a character in DC, is there any good, definitive list or site, like Marvel Wiki or cmro-travis for Marvel? The DC Wiki is alphabetical, not from released date.
DC database (wiki fandom) has all appearances for all characters and cosmology things
 
Even Spurrier who made Wally super-uber-overpowered in his current run has Wally asking for help from the JL to beat a version of Eclipso who ate a baby Speed Force (the JL can't make it because contrived reasons). Eclipso and Wally in his run due to running at hyperspeed on the moon have been at a stalemate for thousands of years, so apparently even the guy who has made Wally the most powerful being ever thinks the JL + Wally > Wally.

Incidentally this makes the JL H1-A
Idk why this would be some sort of crazy revelation that Wally would call on the most powerful heroes in the universe to help him fight...God, like idk why you're acting like THIS specifically would like put him below most of the JL? Also I wouldn't call it a baby speed force more like a baby deep change, who's like already a God
 
Idk why this would be some sort of crazy revelation that Wally would call on the most powerful heroes in the universe to help him fight...God, like idk why you're acting like THIS specifically would like put him below most of the JL? Also I wouldn't call it a baby speed force more like a baby deep change, who's like already a God
You’re making up things in saying this means that he’s below most of the JL. That was never said.
 
No
It felt implied
Not really.
And a lot of those statements are incredibly inconsistent, with character saying "Fighting X character would be a suicide" while they beat the shit out of the said dude.
So taking into account these instances as the only scaling seems pretty sus imo
 
No

Not really.
And a lot of those statements are incredibly inconsistent, with character saying "Fighting X character would be a suicide" while they beat the shit out of the said dude.
So taking into account these instances as the only scaling seems pretty sus imo
Was implied to me 🤷 now that you've corrected it its not doesn't change that in the moment it felt that way. Are you talking about Wally vs Eclipso rn? Because Wally hasn't done anything like that yet
 
New DC Downgrade:
Regular Universes — Low 4-C: Canonically, each individual universe (Earth-0, Earth-2, etc.) is a single 4-D space-time continuum with physical limits (Source Wall boundary).

Orrery of Worlds —4-C: The Orrery is the multiversal structure containing many universes in an 11-D brane setup (per Morrison).

Sphere of the Gods — Low 4-B: This magical realm hosts divine beings (New Gods, Endless Angels, Demons ), existing “above” physical universes and being "realer than real", but still tied to them.

New Gods & Olympians (True Form) — Low 4-A: Exists on a higher level of existence than the Orrery of Worlds, residing in the platonic and archetypal worlds of the Sphere of the Gods. The true forms of the New Gods, such as Darkseid, embody cosmic principles that govern the fabric of existence itself. They emanate lesser aspects of themselves into the physical universes of the Orrery of Worlds, as their true forms are too vast and metaphysical to directly exist within lower-dimensional reality.

Comic Book Limbo — Low 4-A: The last outpost of existence before reaching Monitor Space and the container of the Orrery's forgotten ideas, with no time to waste or stories.

Monitor Sphere — Low 4-A: The fundamental, archetypal world of the Monitors. Exists at the edges of things from the Multiverse's current structure, concepts like space, time and scale being more profound and meaningful there.

Dark Multiverse — Low 4-A: A vast subconscious realm of dark matter upon which the Multiverse float. It contains an infinity of failed universes and a dark mirror to the Sphere of the Gods known as the Other Place or Darkworld.

Divine Continuum (Omniverse + Hypertime) — 4-A: The totality of all space and time, including the Omniverse (all multiverses), and Hypertime (all timelines and temporal flows), containing all possible dimensional spaces. It is defined as all space and time, even if conceptual/emotional rather than physical.

Endless (True Form) — Low 3-C: Are the primordial truths that make up every aspect of The Presence's creation and are believed to oversee every aspect of reality as the functionary of wave patterns, ideas, and motifs. Their influence spans the entire Divine Continuum. However, each of the Infinites that we see and perceive is only an aspect of their truest being, in the sense that what we see is only one viewpoint of the total and pure conception of the Endless.

Although the Endless reside in the Sphere of the Gods, they are not confined to it. Born from the Big Bang as cosmic archetypes, they govern every aspect of the Presence’s creation, with their influence extending across the Totality of Existence, that is, the Divine Continuum in modern representations.

Fifth Dimension — 3-C: This imaginary realm hosts the Imps like Mister Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite, existing beyond time and described as being everywhere at once.

Sixth Dimension — 3-C: The Multiverse’s penthouse and highest plane of existence, existing beyond time, space, understanding, and imagination. Accessible only to the few most powerful cosmic beings.

Source Wall and Promethean Galaxy — 3-B: The seemingly infinite barrier that separates the Multiverse from the Greater Omniverse. It exists in every universe and realms of the Multiverse and constitutes its boundaries.

Greater Omniverse/Infinity/Eternity — 3-B: A boundless expanse beyond space and time, where infinite Multiverses rise and fall. It contains the Hands, the cosmic agents of the Source who shape realities with its raw energies, and the Deep Change, from which the Speed Force and Still Force emanate. Time is a dream of the Deep Change. The Source resides at the center of the Greater Omniverse, which itself exists within an insignificant section of the Overvoid/Void.

Source/Presence — 3-A The infinite, untainted wellspring of creation, light, and life that encompasses and transcends all. All of existence is but a dream from its perspective. One of its manifestations, such as the Presence, recreated the Multiverse after the fall of Perpetua and commands the Archangels, while other aspects of the Source, such as the Deep Change, emanated Time from itself and perceive it as a dream.

Great Darkness — Low 2-C: The antithesis of the Source and Creation, representing the absence of light and is the shadow partner of the Source. It predates the Source and the Greater Omniverse.

God/Unknowable/Overvoid — Low 2-C, possibly Higher
 
Last edited:
Was implied to me 🤷 now that you've corrected it its not doesn't change that in the moment it felt that way. Are you talking about Wally vs Eclipso rn? Because Wally hasn't done anything like that yet
I'm talking about a character saying he's weaker than Superman, even when shown otherwise.
 
New DC Downgrade:
Regular Universes — Low 4-C: Canonically, each individual universe (Earth-0, Earth-2, etc.) is a single 4-D space-time continuum with physical limits (Source Wall boundary).

Orrery of Worlds —4-C: The Orrery is the multiversal structure containing many universes in an 11-D brane setup (per Morrison).

Sphere of the Gods — Low 4-B: This magical realm hosts divine beings (New Gods, Endless Angels, Demons ), existing “above” physical universes and being "realer than real", but still tied to them.

New Gods & Olympians (True Form) — Low 4-A: Exists on a higher level of existence than the Orrery of Worlds, residing in the platonic and archetypal worlds of the Sphere of the Gods. The true forms of the New Gods, such as Darkseid, embody cosmic principles that govern the fabric of existence itself. They emanate lesser aspects of themselves into the physical universes of the Orrery of Worlds, as their true forms are too vast and metaphysical to directly exist within lower-dimensional reality.

Comic Book Limbo — Low 4-A: The last outpost of existence before reaching Monitor Space and the container of the Orrery's forgotten ideas, with no time to waste or stories.

Monitor Sphere — Low 4-A: The fundamental, archetypal world of the Monitors. Exists at the edges of things from the Multiverse's current structure, concepts like space, time and scale being more profound and meaningful there.

Dark Multiverse — Low 4-A: A vast subconscious realm of dark matter upon which the Multiverse float. It contains an infinity of failed universes and a dark mirror to the Sphere of the Gods known as the Other Place or Darkworld.

Divine Continuum (Omniverse + Hypertime) — 4-A: The totality of all space and time, including the Omniverse (all multiverses), and Hypertime (all timelines and temporal flows), containing all possible dimensional spaces. It is defined as all space and time, even if conceptual/emotional rather than physical.

Endless (True Form) — Low 3-C: Are the primordial truths that make up every aspect of The Presence's creation and are believed to oversee every aspect of reality as the functionary of wave patterns, ideas, and motifs. Their influence spans the entire Divine Continuum. However, each of the Infinites that we see and perceive is only an aspect of their truest being, in the sense that what we see is only one viewpoint of the total and pure conception of the Endless.

Although the Endless reside in the Sphere of the Gods, they are not confined to it. Born from the Big Bang as cosmic archetypes, they govern every aspect of the Presence’s creation, with their influence extending across the Totality of Existence, that is, the Divine Continuum in modern representations.

Fifth Dimension — 3-C: This imaginary realm hosts the Imps like Mister Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite, existing beyond time and described as being everywhere at once.

Sixth Dimension — 3-C: The Multiverse’s penthouse and highest plane of existence, existing beyond time, space, understanding, and imagination. Accessible only to the few most powerful cosmic beings.

Source Wall and Promethean Galaxy — 3-B: The seemingly infinite barrier that separates the Multiverse from the Greater Omniverse. It exists in every universe and realms of the Multiverse and constitutes its boundaries.

Greater Omniverse/Infinity/Eternity — 3-B: A boundless expanse beyond space and time, where infinite Multiverses rise and fall. It contains the Hands, the cosmic agents of the Source who shape realities with its raw energies, and the Deep Change, from which the Speed Force and Still Force emanate. Time is a dream of the Deep Change. The Source resides at the center of the Greater Omniverse, which itself exists within an insignificant section of the Overvoid/Void.

Source/Presence — 3-A The infinite, untainted wellspring of creation, light, and life that encompasses and transcends all. All of existence is but a dream from its perspective. One of its manifestations, such as the Presence, recreated the Multiverse after the fall of Perpetua and commands the Archangels, while other aspects of the Source, such as the Deep Change, emanated Time from itself and perceive it as a dream.

Great Darkness — Low 2-C: The antithesis of the Source and Creation, representing the absence of light and is the shadow partner of the Source. It predates the Source and the Greater Omniverse.

God/Unknowable/Overvoid — Low 2-C, possibly Higher
What in the trolling?
 
New DC Downgrade:
Regular Universes — Low 4-C: Canonically, each individual universe (Earth-0, Earth-2, etc.) is a single 4-D space-time continuum with physical limits (Source Wall boundary).

Orrery of Worlds —4-C: The Orrery is the multiversal structure containing many universes in an 11-D brane setup (per Morrison).

Sphere of the Gods — Low 4-B: This magical realm hosts divine beings (New Gods, Endless Angels, Demons ), existing “above” physical universes and being "realer than real", but still tied to them.

New Gods & Olympians (True Form) — Low 4-A: Exists on a higher level of existence than the Orrery of Worlds, residing in the platonic and archetypal worlds of the Sphere of the Gods. The true forms of the New Gods, such as Darkseid, embody cosmic principles that govern the fabric of existence itself. They emanate lesser aspects of themselves into the physical universes of the Orrery of Worlds, as their true forms are too vast and metaphysical to directly exist within lower-dimensional reality.

Comic Book Limbo — Low 4-A: The last outpost of existence before reaching Monitor Space and the container of the Orrery's forgotten ideas, with no time to waste or stories.

Monitor Sphere — Low 4-A: The fundamental, archetypal world of the Monitors. Exists at the edges of things from the Multiverse's current structure, concepts like space, time and scale being more profound and meaningful there.

Dark Multiverse — Low 4-A: A vast subconscious realm of dark matter upon which the Multiverse float. It contains an infinity of failed universes and a dark mirror to the Sphere of the Gods known as the Other Place or Darkworld.

Divine Continuum (Omniverse + Hypertime) — 4-A: The totality of all space and time, including the Omniverse (all multiverses), and Hypertime (all timelines and temporal flows), containing all possible dimensional spaces. It is defined as all space and time, even if conceptual/emotional rather than physical.

Endless (True Form) — Low 3-C: Are the primordial truths that make up every aspect of The Presence's creation and are believed to oversee every aspect of reality as the functionary of wave patterns, ideas, and motifs. Their influence spans the entire Divine Continuum. However, each of the Infinites that we see and perceive is only an aspect of their truest being, in the sense that what we see is only one viewpoint of the total and pure conception of the Endless.

Although the Endless reside in the Sphere of the Gods, they are not confined to it. Born from the Big Bang as cosmic archetypes, they govern every aspect of the Presence’s creation, with their influence extending across the Totality of Existence, that is, the Divine Continuum in modern representations.

Fifth Dimension — 3-C: This imaginary realm hosts the Imps like Mister Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite, existing beyond time and described as being everywhere at once.

Sixth Dimension — 3-C: The Multiverse’s penthouse and highest plane of existence, existing beyond time, space, understanding, and imagination. Accessible only to the few most powerful cosmic beings.

Source Wall and Promethean Galaxy — 3-B: The seemingly infinite barrier that separates the Multiverse from the Greater Omniverse. It exists in every universe and realms of the Multiverse and constitutes its boundaries.

Greater Omniverse/Infinity/Eternity — 3-B: A boundless expanse beyond space and time, where infinite Multiverses rise and fall. It contains the Hands, the cosmic agents of the Source who shape realities with its raw energies, and the Deep Change, from which the Speed Force and Still Force emanate. Time is a dream of the Deep Change. The Source resides at the center of the Greater Omniverse, which itself exists within an insignificant section of the Overvoid/Void.

Source/Presence — 3-A The infinite, untainted wellspring of creation, light, and life that encompasses and transcends all. All of existence is but a dream from its perspective. One of its manifestations, such as the Presence, recreated the Multiverse after the fall of Perpetua and commands the Archangels, while other aspects of the Source, such as the Deep Change, emanated Time from itself and perceive it as a dream.

Great Darkness — Low 2-C: The antithesis of the Source and Creation, representing the absence of light and is the shadow partner of the Source. It predates the Source and the Greater Omniverse.

God/Unknowable/Overvoid — Low 2-C, possibly Higher
fact✌️
 
Been on a DC binge, reading any JL-related comic from 2016 to current, and yea I'm struggling to see the "consistently tier 2" meta I always see people appeal to, nevermind the ridiculous "Beast Boy is 1-B to 1-A" scaling that is rampant in communities like Death Battle and CSaP.

I've been told more recent comics have less large-scale feats, so maybe I need to read some silver age stuff, although even then if a character had consistent tier 2 scaling but then went through 3 decades of anti-feats and downscaling atp you just gotta concede that the tier 2 scaling is subject to being retconned.
Not every story calls for tier 2 or higher showings but when the story DOES call for it
DC heroes (most often then not) perform.
Same with Marvel heroes and characters.
Most Superman stories is him facing local threats.
 
I'm talking about a character saying he's weaker than Superman, even when shown otherwise.
Cool? And? That's the POINT, other than saying something like this they will NEVER have Flash proclaim he's stronger than Superman, hell the entire time he's literally hitting Superman, Superman doesn't even look like he's feeling it, that's simply how the comics work
 
I think they usually cap out at planetary or star level. For instance, prior to the upgrade we had them all at Solar System level due to a single statement about Alan Scott having a power source that could wipe out the solar system. I didn't think this was a good basis, as it was just the lone statement and it's questionable whether Alan's individual fighting prowess scales directly to the explosive energy within him, or if the statement was even accurate. I thought it was a pretty good example of an outlier, but we had 30+ profiles all chain-scaling to that one single statement.

But that was the only actual star level evidence we had. The vast majority of the time these character are fighting at city or mountain level, and when they get very serious it can get planetary. The complete absence of any real feats between Planet and Universal (nothing galaxy level, almost nothing star level) to me is one of the strongest indications that these characters are nowhere near universal. It renders most of the storylines somewhat nonsensical to think of the characters as being capable of that.

The usual response to this is "something something varies" but this needs to have some grounded limitations. It isn't as though these fights don't matter to the Justice League, it's often life or death or has huge stakes, so in order for this to be true we'd have to think that in the vast majority of circumstances (like, 10,000 to 1 in terms of frequency) members of the Justice League that scale are using an infinitesimal fraction of their power even in life or death circumstances, that somehow they have never portrayed any genuine galaxy or star level feats (just a lone statement of questionable validity) but in reality they are all capable of destroying universes. My personal opinion on the matter is that this is unreasonable to the point of absurdity.

I'm a huge huge fan of these characters and I consider Superman my favorite character of all time, this isn't born of any spite against him or the verse, I just think it really cheapens these storylines to characterize Supes this way and it makes me feel bummed, but in battleboarding as a whole the culture trends towards exaggeration so many of our profiles are just wacky caricatures of the storylines, as if the source material is more about performing a thought experiment of what the highest possible interpretation of the info is, rather than a faithful representation. Most of our profiles are exaggerated, but standing in between me and any downgrade is a horde of fans of feel very very strongly about keeping the tier high (a good example of this was Armor's entirely reasonable downgrade of Mario, which was met with vicious protest just because they didn't want the character being downgraded, no matter how reasonable).

This is an issue somewhat unique to VSBW which revolves around indexing, the battles themselves are secondary (because the battles must adhere to the profiles). In other communities the battles are the primary focus and there is no official indexing. Under this format, any of the more unreasonable notions about a character are immediately met with resistance by the opposing side. In our community many CRTs are only participated in by the fans themselves, and its hard to have a voice as an "opposer" unless there is large opposition to a verse who cares enough to keep their profiles from being unreasonably high. So individual fandoms often act with relative isolation and independence, and these fandoms are almost by definition always motivated to pursue more and more upgrades.

This has upsides and downsides. It's better that issues are able to be decided in isolation, without the same points of contention playing out in every match up thread between different fandoms, but it has its drawbacks as I mentioned above.

Almost all of the verses I am thought of as downplaying are verses I am actually really big fans of. It's because I am a fan that the exaggeration bothers me, because I've read or watched the stories and know that, for instance, anyone in Avatar being capable of destroying the Moon is just ridiculous.
old ass message but these are my exact thoughts after a several month dc comics binge
 
old ass message but these are my exact thoughts after a several month dc comics binge
I don't understand what's so hard for you to believe about this? You're saying these characters are neve Universal like ever? Despite having the feats? Like they have plenty of them. And the explanations are pretty self explanatory, Superman for instance has NUMEROUS explanations explaining his variance, Green Lanterns entire power revolves around Will Power something that greatly fluctuates, The Flash is based on how fast he runs, and I'm sure the others all have explanations as well. Point being downgrading the entire Justice League to Planetary MAX is insanity, you can say they consistently scale there but putting that as their max is insane. Especially when you have feats like this, where Wally West just casually states he is hitting with enough force to burn up an extinction level asteroid Wally is not trying here, he is very casual, and in this ssme comic destroys the Arc Angles, Stillness, and puts a hole in the Source Wall, not to mention crossing the bounds of infinity, that is literal infinite force. Plus what does this do to our high tiers? Literally any instance of them being hit by these characters would make them be downgraded because they were hurt by a planetary character
 
I don't understand what's so hard for you to believe about this? You're saying these characters are neve Universal like ever? Despite having the feats? Like they have plenty of them. And the explanations are pretty self explanatory, Superman for instance has NUMEROUS explanations explaining his variance, Green Lanterns entire power revolves around Will Power something that greatly fluctuates, The Flash is based on how fast he runs, and I'm sure the others all have explanations as well. Point being downgrading the entire Justice League to Planetary MAX is insanity, you can say they consistently scale there but putting that as their max is insane. Especially when you have feats like this, where Wally West just casually states he is hitting with enough force to burn up an extinction level asteroid Wally is not trying here, he is very casual, and in this ssme comic destroys the Arc Angles, Stillness, and puts a hole in the Source Wall, not to mention crossing the bounds of infinity, that is literal infinite force. Plus what does this do to our high tiers? Literally any instance of them being hit by these characters would make them be downgraded because they were hurt by a planetary character
That's not the point.
Having "some" feats doesn't mean they're all Tier 3, 2 or 1. They needs to have consistency, the writers themselves never write a character busting a planet and thinning "Yeah, that punch was as hard as the Big Bang" especially since by the next issue, an actual big bang level events needs the entire Superhero population to face off against it, and even with all of that, they lose, and need an extra power up or plot twist to work their way out of said problem.

Holding is a thing, they hold back when facing a human, an ordinary rogue, that's for sure. But when actually fighting against a high Tiers villain, they don't. And they not holding back is just "winning the fight with less moves" instead of oblirating each one of those villains, and cracking galaxies.

And those anti feats of them being harmed by Tier 5 chars aren't anti feats, but actual feast to the level they should realistically have
 
I don't understand what's so hard for you to believe about this? You're saying these characters are neve Universal like ever? Despite having the feats? Like they have plenty of them.
I don't know about "plenty", I can name all the tier 2 feats I've read on one hand as usually when they perform them they're heavily amped by external sources of power. I don't deny that base Superman in his near-100 year long history has had valid tier 2 feats, he may have even had '50' of them (I always see that number get thrown around) but for every feat I can name 50 anti-feats. Not 50 instances of him not being tier 2, 50 instances of tier 2 anti-feats.
And the explanations are pretty self explanatory, Superman for instance has NUMEROUS explanations explaining his variance, Green Lanterns entire power revolves around Will Power something that greatly fluctuates, The Flash is based on how fast he runs, and I'm sure the others all have explanations as well.
This is also without mentioning the narrative implications of this; Superman would watch his parents, wife, and child get brought to near-death and still only fight with a literal infinitesmial portion of his power but then conveniently whip out tier 2 power on some random escapade through space? Superman must be the worst hero ever!
Point being downgrading the entire Justice League to Planetary MAX is insanity, you can say they consistently scale there but putting that as their max is insane.
I think I'm fine with tier 4, even 4-A, so I guess Deagonx and I disagree on that front.
Is this supposed to be an impressive feat? This would be like country level max...
this ssme comic destroys the Arc Angles, Stillness, and puts a hole in the Source Wall, not to mention crossing the bounds of infinity, that is literal infinite force.
I've heard of this, haven't gotten to that comic yet, but I've been told Wally does it via using a specific item which enables him to cut through those higher-existential beings. You'll have to wait for me to catch up to argue with me on it tho, currently reading Lazarus Planet
Plus what does this do to our high tiers? Literally any instance of them being hit by these characters would make them be downgraded because they were hurt by a planetary character
There aren't many instances of Superman casually whacking true form Darkseid or the Monitor brothers, I don't think it's that big of an issue.
 
I don't know about "plenty", I can name all the tier 2 feats I've read on one hand as usually when they perform them they're heavily amped by external sources of power. I don't deny that base Superman in his near-100 year long history has had valid tier 2 feats, he may have even had '50' of them (I always see that number get thrown around) but for every feat I can name 50 anti-feats. Not 50 instances of him not being tier 2, 50 instances of tier 2 anti-feats.

This is also without mentioning the narrative implications of this; Superman would watch his parents, wife, and child get brought to near-death and still only fight with a literal infinitesmial portion of his power but then conveniently whip out tier 2 power on some random escapade through space? Superman must be the worst hero ever!

I think I'm fine with tier 4, even 4-A, so I guess Deagonx and I disagree on that front.

Is this supposed to be an impressive feat? This would be like country level max...

I've heard of this, haven't gotten to that comic yet, but I've been told Wally does it via using a specific item which enables him to cut through those higher-existential beings. You'll have to wait for me to catch up to argue with me on it tho, currently reading Lazarus Planet

There aren't many instances of Superman casually whacking true form Darkseid or the Monitor brothers, I don't think it's that big of an issue.
Well, this level of demand should be applied to Marvel as well, because I've always seen DC profiles at 4-B, while Marvel profiles at 3-A and above, while Marvel's literally suffer from the same kinds of problems. And I don't see people raising these issues in their threads. It's like with DC, there's always an extra level of rigor and skepticism in every aspect.
 
Well, this level of demand should be applied to Marvel as well, because I've always seen DC profiles at 4-B, while Marvel profiles at 3-A and above, while Marvel's literally suffer from the same kinds of problems. And I don't see people raising these issues in their threads. It's like with DC, there's always an extra level of rigor and skepticism in every aspect.
I don't read Marvel, I only know the surface level scaling for the verse from DCvMarvel matchups and even then I do notice a lot of inconsistency (I get told Spider-Man dodges light-based attacks frequently but then get shown numerous bullet-timer anti-feats and statements saying without spider-sense he can't consistently dodge gunfire, or characters like Thor get placed in the multiversal tiers for scaling to characters who can damage Yggdrasil but then similar characters in his weight bracket - like Sentry - have an abundance of star-level statements and showings), so I agree Marvel should get scrutiny too but I just don't engage with their comics deeply enough to argue this.
 
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