Gaara Speed CRT

[Nullflowerblush]

Yeah, Minato's arm and other stuff are also censored, that isn't the game contradicting the manga.

Sooo, it's contradicting the manga.

Look, there is a difference between changing the color of a character's blood or blurring their injuries with black circles (à la Dragon Ball Z anime), and completely removing relatively important story beats. Ay cuts off his arm and he does not get it back—he is armless for the rest of the story. Him keeping his arm is already a red flag. On top of that, you mention Minato losing his arms being censored which why? He's an Edotensei. It does not even look like an actual injury, it looks like you just tore through a paper mache man is also an important story beat. It is the reason why everyone learns that the Truth-Seeking Orbs can nullify Jutsu, including the Impure World Reincarnation, and it is one of the reasons why Minato cannot do anything after Madara became the Ten-Tails Jinchūriki and why is relegated to a mere support role in Might Guy's battle. The game is blatantly contradicting the manga.

Besides, why are we taking a cutscene from a game that was supervised by Kishimoto over a scene from the manga that was written by Kishimoto? Gaara never wisped the Amaterasu flames away in the manga, Ay did not get keep his arm in the manga, this scene is null(flower) and void.

man, i love bold

Also also, only the OVAs were deemed canon, if I recall correctly, because they naturally flowed into the canon. I'm pretty sure recreations of scenes from the manga that alter events in order to maintain a T for Teen ESRB rating were not the topic of debate in that thread.

He later blocks again, the same Sasuke that could react to the amped Raikage.

Fun Fact: Gaara has Instinctive Reactions... or rather, his sand does. His sand protects him without his input. He could not even kill himself because of his sand's absolute defense. The sand in his gourd acts independently of his will in order to protect him at all costs. Gaara himself was not in control of the sand, so he would not scale to its speed.

Gaara is able to intercept both Sasuke and the Raikage when they were inches apart.

On the other hand, him blocking Ay is fine but then again, he was going in for a guillotine leg drop, and unless he has Self-Momentum and can maintain his top speed while falling—remember, this is a leap and a dive like a wrestler, not a Ground Pound like Mario—this would mean absolutely nothing in terms of scaling.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Sooo, it's contradicting the manga.

It isn't a big plot point like you are saying, it's one arm. It's just for censorship purposes.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Yea, that's not really the point... well, it kinda is, but shut up.

Ay being covered in flames and Gaara having to remove them from his body are not present in the manga at all; Ay only made contact with the Amaterasu once, and that was when he slammed his fist into Sasuke's leg, leading to him removing his arm.

That is the problem—the cutscene adds in events that directly contradict those of the manga. And, unless I'm just a prude, we don't usually take video game cutscenes over the original manga, especially not in cases like this.

 

[GTsek]

About the part of blocking the Raikage, I agree that the Raikage was not at full speed there, Shee himself mentions that by increasing the power of the armor, the Raikage would start attacking using the Shunshin, I don't think he used the Shunshin in that scene where it was blocked...

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Going to respond to this uhhh... later, I suppose, when I’m not busy.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Fun Fact: Gaara has Instinctive Reactions... or rather, his sand does. His sand protects him without his input. He could not even kill himself because of his sand's absolute defense. The sand in his gourd acts independently of his will in order to protect him at all costs. Gaara himself was not in control of the sand, so he would not scale to its speed.

Also, ah, would appreciate if you didn’t make condescending comments like this... I’m pretty sure everyone knows Gaara’s sand is automatic, but it’s not like his profile even distinguishes that fact, so.

 

[Strife304]

wait.. how fast is sasuke amaterasu?

The Raikage saw a need to amp himself further in order to dodge it, so it has to be in that range.

 

[SirAlex09]

which is counted as canon

Why is counted as canon? Just curious

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Why is counted as canon? Just curious

It’s in the verse page, didn’t look into it any further.

 

[SirAlex09]

It’s in the verse page, didn’t look into it any further.

Does that mean Itachi and Shisui's full body Susanoo are as well? That would be great -

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Again, I didn’t look into it that far, only used it for my argument.

 

[KingTempest]

Wouldn't Sasuke scale off of being able to block his sand attacks w/ Susanoo?

 

[Strife304]

About the part of blocking the Raikage, I agree that the Raikage was not at full speed there, Shee himself mentions that by increasing the power of the armor, the Raikage would start attacking using the Shunshin, I don't think he used the Shunshin in that scene where it was blocked...

He used it in order to chop sasuke in the neck, and without a pause or break in momentum, went into the guillotine attack.

The full context for the exchange makes it blatantly obvious that the Raikage only increased in speed and wasn't getting any slower since Sasuke used MS.

 

[Strife304]

Had a bad link, this one should work.

 

[DuDE01010]

The Raikage saw a need to amp himself further in order to dodge it, so it has to be in that range.

Ay went into V2 because he saw the MS with Sasuke already being fast enough to react to his V1 with just his 3 tomoe. He didn't amp himself just to dodge amaterasu.

 

[The_Alxhemist]

This seems clear cut, only the generations bit seems iffy since it contradicts the manga. I agree with the upgrade (whatever it's worth lol)

Next up FTL Gaara for reacting to Fused Momo

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Next up FTL Gaara for reacting to Fused Momo

He should also be moon level, like the other kage. Not a joke.

 

[KingTempest]

Wouldn't Sasuke scale off of being able to block his sand attacks w/ Susanoo?

 

[Strife304]

Ay went into V2 because he saw the MS with Sasuke already being fast enough to react to his V1 with just his 3 tomoe. He didn't amp himself just to dodge amaterasu.

Sure, point being that amp is the benchmark for the speeds required to dodge the flames at this point in the story.

 

[Strife304]

Anyways, I agree with the upgrades. The Generations clip doesn't contradict the manga, canon story elements aren't altered and the scaling remains consistent in both mediums.

Gaara reacts to both Sasuke and an amped Raikage.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Wouldn't Sasuke scale off of being able to block his sand attacks w/ Susanoo?

Can you bring an instance of this?
From what I remembered sasuke did most of the attacking and his Susanoo was already active when gaara, darui and the rest attacked, he caved in the building by going into armored susanoo. But sasuke has subrel reactions already so it would still.be consistent

 

[PrinceofPein]

Ay went into V2 because he saw the MS with Sasuke already being fast enough to react to his V1 with just his 3 tomoe. He didn't amp himself just to dodge amaterasu.

Uhhmmm no, not according to what was said anyway

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/831870319487746078/844828335620096020/Screenshot_20210510-140250.png

He actually went V2 to dodge sasuke line of sight ( the amaterasu )and continued to attack in V2

 

[DuDE01010]

Uhhmmm no, not according to what was said anyway

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/831870319487746078/844828335620096020/Screenshot_20210510-140250.png

He actually went V2 to dodge the amaterasu and continued to attack in V2

Ay went V2 because Sasuke went into MS and was already fast enough to react to V1 with just the 3 tomoe. He didn't go into V2 just to dodge amaterasu. C's talking about MS in general not referring to amaterasu specifically.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The Generations clip doesn't contradict the manga

cough

 

[PrinceofPein]

Ay went V2 because Sasuke went into MS and was already fast enough to react to V1 with just the 3 tomoe. He didn't go into V2 just to dodge amaterasu. C's talking about MS in general not referring to amaterasu specifically.

Bad link

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Amaterasu doesn't have an inherent speed, really. It's all about the user's perception speed and their line of sight not being blocked. As covered in my thread, it simply spawns on whatever the caster is looking at.

Ay didn't dodge Amaterasu, he went FTE from Sasuke himself, and then Amaterasu went on to spawn on the new target of his gaze now that Ay was gone, the Samurai.
Gaara blocks Sasuke's line of sight with his sand.
There's more examples of this, that I went over, but yeah "dodging" Amaterasu isn't really relevant. It's more so being faster than Sasuke's perception that is noteworthy.
Ay already scales above Sasuke in speed, so he's covered.
As for Gaara, I'm not too sure. His method of blocking the flames is different. He just covers a large area with the sand as a shield, it's not like it's constantly blitzing Sasuke or even moving for that matter.
Not to mention, it's not even something that would scale to Gaara himself, but only his sand anyway.

Gaara intercepting Ay's drop inches away from Sasuke is an impressive feat, but I do understand the reservations about him falling not being equal to his Shuunshin full speed, especially when Sasuke had no trouble reacting to the drop fast enough to use his Enton, even though he was unable to react to Ay's full speed previously.
So yeah, I think Gaara scaling to Ay's full speed is kinda shaky tbh.

As for the game cutscenes, I'm pretty sure we only agreed to accept things that weren't shown in the manga, but that we knew (or could reasonably assume) have taken place (Itachi vs Kisame, and the Shisui stuff come to mind as good examples of this), as long as they offer no contradictions to the manga. It's basically treated as secondary or tertiary canon, that's only meant to shed light on or give context to things when needed. But it can't take precedence over the manga when there's significant differences.

Hope that helps.

 

[KingTempest]

Can you bring an instance of this?
From what I remembered sasuke did most of the attacking and his Susanoo was already active when gaara, darui and the rest attacked, he caved in the building by going into armored susanoo. But sasuke has subrel reactions already so it would still.be consistent

This was all in the game.
His ribcage was out, then he pulled out the full skeleton while they attacked him.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Wouldn't Sasuke scale off of being able to block his sand attacks w/ Susanoo?

His reactions are already Sub-Rel, though not because of this.

 

[KingTempest]

His reactions are already Sub-Rel, though not because of this.

He'd just get another justification then.

Never understood why we split up Gaara's Pre and Post war keys, he's the same Gaara.

Gaara's dad scales.
Mu scales.
Who else scales

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

He'd just get another justification then.

Assuming this is accepted, yeah.

Never understood why we split up Gaara's Pre and Post war keys, he's the same Gaara.

Agreed 100%.

Gaara's dad scales.
Mu scales.
Who else scales

Ay's dad maybe? Gengetsu?
Also, I'd like to note that Gaara kept up with, and blocked multiple attacks from Madara's Susano'o (just like the rest of the Kage, who also have feats against Madara), but that's a story for another day.

 

[KingTempest]

Assuming this is accepted, yeah.

Agreed 100%.

Ay's dad maybe? Gengetsu?
Also, I'd like to note that Gaara kept up with, and blocked multiple attacks from Madara's Susano'o (just like the rest of the Kage, who also have feats against Madara), but that's a story for another day.

Agreed.

A message for all of those who make CRTs for 1 person.
Unless it's an ability, it's never for one person.

Now we need to find out who scales to War Arc Gaara speed wise.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Now we need to find out who scales to War Arc Gaara speed wise.

At this point, we might as well just do the speed revisions lol. Single character CRTs need to stop for Naruto. Smh.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

At this point, we might as well just do the speed revisions lol. Single character CRTs need to stop for Naruto. Smh.

I'm the only one doing them lately, so. I never really came into this with the intention of scaling everyone else, and I'm kind of short of time, with graduation, school, can hardly get a detailed response out in full.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I'm the only one doing them lately, so. I never really came into this with the intention of scaling everyone else, and I'm kind of short of time, with graduation, school, can hardly get a detailed response out in full.

I was joking, it's fine don't worry about it. Real life always comes first.

Anyway, Gaara will definitely be upgraded, one way or another, but I just don't think it's a good idea to upgrade one character and call it a day, when a lot of other characters potentially scale to him. Naruto is a pretty massive verse, with huge scaling chains, which is partly why these large scale revisions take so damn long.
In any case, we're planning a speed revision for the whole verse soon, but we were caught up in the AP side for now. I'm almost tempted to do the speed first at this point tbh, since so many people seem more interested in it (myself included tbh).

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

But, question. If they reacted, dodged, and counteracted even a Madara who was just playing around, and they made him substitute even once, doesn't that still mean they scale to Sub-Rel, across the board? (Retroactively making this whole thing useless, but if it's done, it's done)

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

But, question. If they reacted, dodged, and counteracted even a Madara who was just playing around, and they made him substitute even once, doesn't that still mean they scale to Sub-Rel, across the board? (Retroactively making this whole thing useless, but if it's done, it's done)

If I have my way, they'll scale/downscale to whatever Madara scales to, with Ay probably even upscaling him (at the very least when amped by Onoki).

 

[Arkenis]

I disagree with the feats presented for why he's sub rel, but think he can be sub rel for other reasons. Also can't scale kage summit gaara to war gaara, stated he got stronger in databook iirc.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

If I have my way, they'll scale/downscale to whatever Madara scales to, with Ay probably even upscaling him (at the very least when amped by Onoki).

I'm fine with that, I suppose. I'd still like to get in a full response when I'm free, so.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

They really have no business scaling to Madara in any capacity beyond an "At least Sub-Relativistic". Madara, while playing around and testing the Kage's strength, was capable of casually outmaneuvering Lightning Release Chakra Mode Ay, whom Gaara is supposed to scale to in reaction based on OP, and then proceeded to manhandle and nearly kill all of them with clones, which divide his strength; albeit, with Susano'o, but it is not like Susano'o increases his speed, right?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

They really have no business scaling to Madara in any capacity beyond an "At least Sub-Relativistic".

That's literally all I was aiming for.