Future Gohan and Androids confusion

[Crabwhale]

So,Future Gohan is listed as High 4-C.He has also been shown fighting both Androids 17 and 18 together on his own or with help from Future Trunks.Android 16 is also put in the same category and was also slightly superior to Imperfect Cell,who was able to basically one-shot both Android 17 and Piccolo.Now,what baffles me is how these guys are listed as low-high tier in the Dragon Ball main page while Goten and Trunks are listed as mid-high tier.Goten and Trunks are comparable to Frieza's Final Form pre-DBS,while these guys have fought WAY stronger opponents that that.And while we're speaking about the other androids,how come 17 and 18 are listed at that level too?Again,they're much stronger than Trunks or Goten,so what gives?

 

[Crabwhale]

Anyone actually gonna answer or what?

 

[Dark649]

Goten and Trunks are listed as mid-high tier because they trained in the Hyperbolic time chamber, where they both became much stronger, this was confirmed by Piccolo, who was impressed of their power.

 

[Sparky_"Dante"_Marky1234]

Goten was about as strong as Gohan was at the start of the Buu Saga, and then got to train in the RoSaT to increase his base power so when he and Trunks were to fuse into Gotenks, they'd become a lot more powerful.

 

[Crabwhale]

Isn't it still kind of ridiculous to consider them to be more powerful than those guys?That and also we can assume that they spent most of that time as Gotenks.We know that if individual fusee get stronger so does the fusion,however we don't about the oposite.Furthermore,Trunks himself said that they received a power boost greater than two times their previous.We can assume that it musn't have been that much higher that 2,since thay were only in there for ONE WEEK.Let's say that they get maybe 3 times stronger.Their previous power(as Ssj) was comparable to Full Power Frieza,pre-RoF.Future Trunks casually stomped Mecha Frieza,who was stronger that what he was in the Namek saga.Future Trunks himself at that time couldn't lay a finger against either of the androids of the future,which were stated to be weaker than the ones of the normal timeline.Future Gohan was able to hold his own against both androids of the future.And finally 16,who was superior to Imperfect Cell,who stomped both Super Piccolo and Android 17 of the current timeline.So yeah,there is simply no doubt in my mind that Goten and Trunks don't deserve to be placed higher than these guys.

 

[Crabwhale]

Goten was about as strong as Gohan was at the start of the Buu Saga, and then got to train in the RoSaT to increase his base power so when he and Trunks were to fuse into Gotenks, they'd become a lot more powerful.

No,just no.Gohan might've gotten way weaker during the seven years,but there is no way he was as weak as Goten.Ssj2 Gohan fought against Dabura pretty evenly,an opponent stated to be as powerful as Perfect Cell.Goten on the other hand is comparable to Full Power Frieza pre-RoF.Secondly,we're talking about individual Goten and Trunks here and how they're listed as mid-high tier while the androids and Future Gohan are listed as low-hight tier.Even after the training in the HTC(I refuse to call it by that new and stupid name!),it simply doesn't seem possible to me that they're stronger than people like 16,17 and 18.

 

[Crabwhale]

Hello,it's been a year(technically,lol).Anyone gonna respond?

 

[Dark649]

In order to nearly match Super Buu as Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, Goten and Trunks had to be slighty stronger than Android 16 with Super Saiyan.

 

[Crabwhale]

In order to nearly match Super Buu as Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, Goten and Trunks had to be slighty stronger than Android 16 with Super Saiyan.

And exactly where was this confirmed?All we know is that Super Buu more-or-less=Ssj3 Gotenks>Ssj3 Goku.Now where did this statement come from?Again,as I have mentioned in my previous comments,pre-HTC Goten and Trunks are roughly equal to Full Power Frieza in the Namek saga.Mecha Frieza,who is stronger than his full power on Namek,got stomped by Ssj F. Trunks pre-HTC.Why is this important?Because Trunks himself couldn't lay a finger on the androids of the future.And why is this important?Because the androids of the future are confirmed to be weaker than the ones in the present timeline.Again,taking this into consideration,F. Gohan(who took on both androids of the future at the same time,even though he was overpowered) would be enough to stomp both Trunks and Goten.Now,about the Hyperbolic Time Chamber training,Trunks himself said that he and Goten got more than twice as strong as before.How do I know this?Well,this:http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Trunks#Power

If this source is wrong,then by all means,correct me.Now,I think it's safe to assume that the two didn't get THAT much stronger than two times their normal power.How do I come to this conclusion?Because they were in there for ONE WEEK.As great as your natural talent might be,there is a limit to just how strong you can become even in DBZ.Did Goku receive a huge power boost during the Namek saga after 6 days of training?Yes,but he did so because he was training under 100 times the normal gravity.That's 10 times less than what the HTC can provide.For Goten and Trunks to have gotten much stronger than two times in a week is simply illogical to assume.I believe that three times stronger is about right,and I think I'm being generous.If it were as you are saying,then it means Goten and Trunks would be able to beat any Cell saga character up to Semi-Perfect Cell.And that is simply unbelievable to me.

 

[Sparky_"Dante"_Marky1234]

@Awesome The guides actually confirmed that Goten was his level.

Gohan wasn't that weak, Goten was just that strong.

 

[Crabwhale]

@Awesome
The guides actually confirmed that Goten was his level.

Gohan wasn't that weak, Goten was just that strong.

So what?By that logic we know that Ssj Gogeta's power level is 2,5 billion because it was stated in a guide,and yet everyone I know doesn't use that number.Ever.Partially because power levels are bs,but it still stands.Guides are acceptable when thaey follow and compliment the canon,but this guide you mention doesn't do either of those things.Again,as I mentioned before,Gohan at Ssj 2 could fight evenly with Dabura,an opponent stated to be as powerful as Perfect Cell.Can you really tell me with a straight face that even post-training Goten is as strong as even a weakened Ssj 2 or a Perfect Cell-level opponent?

 

[Dark649]

Can you really tell me with a straight face that even post-training Goten is as strong as even a weakened Ssj 2 or a Perfect Cell-level opponent?

No, they are slighty stronger than Android 16 as a super saiyan after the training, but weaker than a Perfect Cell-level opponent.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Dark where are you getting this info?

 

[Antoniofer]

Not sure what's the exact issue, but F. Gohan is several times weaker than Trunks and Gotenks, iirc, the last two are slightly stronger than 18, that is stronger than F. 18, that is stronger than F. Gohan; also, both 16 and 1st form Cell are equal strong, and not sure Gotan and Trunks are stronger than 16 came from, doesn't sound impossible, but isn't supported by anything.

 

[Dark649]

@Dark where are you getting this info?

Super Saiyan Gotenks is said to be superior to Fat Buu, so Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks are probably not that much weaker than Semi-Perfect Cell.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Dark We... don't know the fusion multiplier?

@Ant I see

 

[Crabwhale]

Not sure what's the exact issue, but F. Gohan is several times weaker than Trunks and Gotenks, iirc, the last two are slightly stronger than 18, that is stronger than F. 18, that is stronger than F. Gohan; also, both 16 and 1st form Cell are equal strong, and not sure Gotan and Trunks are stronger than 16 came from, doesn't sound impossible, but isn't supported by anything.

I'm sorry,were was it stated that RoF Gohan is weaker than them?That is freaking impossible!We know that a few years have passed since the death of Kid Buu and DBS,but there is no way Gohan got that weak.It certainly hasn't been another 7 years,we know that much,so explain to me how could've become so weak?!Heck,even after the 7 years between the Cell and Buu sagas,he was still able to take on a Perfect Cell-level opponent.And we're not talking about that Gohan,we're talking about Ultimate Gohan,who was for a time the strongest character in Z and vastly superior to Super Buu.Don't forget that Goten and Trunks themselves have been slacking on their training since the Buu saga.

 

[Crabwhale]

@Dark where are you getting this info?

Super Saiyan Gotenks is said to be superior to Fat Buu, so Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks are probably not that much weaker than Semi-Perfect Cell.

The strength of fusion means nothing about the strength of the individual fusees.Goku himself describes the result of a fusion as the two Metamoran performing it being very weak and the one they create being very strong.We simply don't know the full extent of the fusion's multiplier.

 

[Antoniofer]

Wait, you were talking about DBS Gohan? I though that you were talking about F. Gohan... Welp, if you're talking about RoF Gohan, I only knowns that he is weaker than the one in Cell Games, by words of people cross some forums, SS Gohan would be weaker than perfect form Cell.

 

[Crabwhale]

Wait, you were talking about DBS Gohan? I though that you were talking about F. Gohan... Welp, if you're talking about RoF Gohan, I only knowns that he is weaker than the one in Cell Games, by words of people cross some forums, SS Gohan would be weaker than perfect form Cell.

Sorry,my mistake.I mistook the F for RoF.My bad.And as for your powerscaling of F.Gohan against the others,I'm sorry to say that it is wrong.If you wanna know why,please take a look at my older comments as I really don't want to keep repeating myself.

 

[Antoniofer]

I see, welp, if you are asking if Goten and Trunks (both in SS) are stronger than 16 or 1st from Cell I would say that they aren't, I highly doubt that those kids are at the level of perfect form Cell, they still being considerably weaker than Piccolo even after the training.

 

[Dark649]

So, where do we move them in the tier list?.

 

[Antoniofer]

I would say between 17, 18 and 16, but since usually I don't watch verses profile, don't known the appropiate name.

 

[Crabwhale]

I would say between 17, 18 and 16, but since usually I don't watch verses profile, don't known the appropiate name.

I agree with the first part.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Iirc, didnt it take both of them in their Super Saiyan forms just to be able to hit 18 during the tournament?

 

[Dark649]

In GT (even if it's not canon) Base Trunks was ambushed by Android 17.

 

[Crabwhale]

In GT (even if it's not canon) Base Trunks was ambushed by Android 17.

I don't think that really applies here.It's a different canon all-together.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Reminder that Future 17 and 18 are also weaker than the 17 and 18 from the "present" or main timeline.

 

[Crabwhale]

Reminder that Future 17 and 18 are also weaker than the 17 and 18 from the "present" or main timeline.

That's been a central point of all my previous arguments.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

That was more for everyone who skips to the bottom to reply to the OP

 

[Dark649]

After the hyperbolic training super saiyan Goten and Trunks are likely stronger than 18, but i'm uncertain about 17.

 

[Antoniofer]

17 is just a little bit stronger than 18, since she has a limiter or something, the difference between Trunks and 17 should be the same between Goten and 18; however, those 4 still weaker than 16 (at least for now, 17 could've become stronger since them, but still unknown).

 

[Dark649]

17 could've become stronger since them, but still unknown.

After the Cell saga, i don't think he trained, since he became a park ranger and currently has a family like 18. I will put them below 16, but the next saga will likely make the androids above the two saiyans.

 

[Crabwhale]

After the Cell saga, i don't think he trained, since he became a park ranger and currently has a family like 18. I will put them below 16, but the next saga will likely make the androids above the two saiyans.

Yes,I believe that is acceptable.Should I close this then?

 

[Delivers]

Is this like, Anime Future Gohan? Because in the manga 17 said they weren't even using half of their full power on him during their fights and then right ever that he kills Gohan off panel

 

[Golden_Void]

Meanwhile, almost a whole year later...