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Fullmetal Alchemist Regenerationn revision

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Elizhaa

Elizhaa

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This thread is about changing the Regenerationn of Van Hohenheim, Father (Fullmetal Alchemist) and Homunculus asides Wrath and Mannequins who can't regenerate from Full Metal Alchemist. Currently, Regenerationn is rated as Low-High; recently from going the Regenerationn feats none of the Regenerationn feats at Low-High so the Regenerationn rating should be changed. Lower Regenerationn like to Mid from Homunculus like Gluttony who can regenerate from attacks like in the scan here, here, and here. However, there are two regenerations cases that I will discuss here; one is at Mid-High and the other High-Mid. The characters that I mentioned should have their Regenerationn's scaled whatever to whatever is decided from Lust's since their Regenerationn is basically from the same method.

Mid-High Regenerationn
These are the scans that could show Regenerationn the High-Mid Regenerationn:

  • https://**********.com/read-online/Fullmetal-Alchemist-chapter-38-page-45.html
  • https://**********.com/read-online/Fullmetal-Alchemist-chapter-38-page-46.html
  • https://**********.com/read-online/Fullmetal-Alchemist-chapter-38-page-47.html
Mustang says he knows when someone is incinerated and he's not someone who boasts about himself whose Statements should normally be Type 2 on the matter as war officers and expert on the explosion topic; there is "my lips are sticky from the fat" statement because her Lust's fat dispersed in the air. However, the major problem is that Mustang made a contradictory statement that said that Lust's corpse should be nearby which should not be a thing because incineration should destroy a body completely where a corpse should not remain. So, this statement can somewhat be seen as iffy unless we assume Mustang was talking about Lust's corpse regenerating.

High-Mid
For High-Mid Regenerationn, Lust regenerated from her philosopher stone here in these scans. There is this statement that the philosopher stone is her heart such as a core so it is part of her body so Regenerationn from this is High-Mid.

Point of view
I think Regenerationn should be downgraded to High-Mid since there are no other Regenerationn feats that I can remember higher and is the safer choice, in my view.
 
High-Mid, the Stone survived.
 
Hold up, I have a blog explaining this entire thing, High-Mid is objectively wrong. It's more akin to Masada's low godly Regenerationn that's based on the amount of stock piled souls.
 
here


Also I'm gonna point out the blatant lack of context given by the OP here.


Mustang says he knows when someone is incinerated and he's not someone who boasts about himself whose Statements should normally be Type 2 on the matter as war officers and expert on the explosion topic; there is "my lips are sticky from the fat" statement because her Lust's fat dispersed in the air. However, the major problem is that Mustang made a contradictory statement that said that Lust's corpse should be nearby which should not be a thing because incineration should destroy a body completely where a corpse should not remain. So, this statement can somewhat be seen as iffy unless we assume Mustang was talking about Lust's corpse regenerating.


Again this lacks context as to what's happening. The statement is contradicted in any sense, if you bothered paying attention Roy states to Havoc seconds later not to underestimate her regenerative capabilities. Why would Roy Mustang, who's more than experienced when it comes to vaporizing people with Flame Alchemy be off with his statement? He even feels the fat on his lips, and even tells Havoc not to underestimate her regen, meaning she regenerated from the being vaporized. It's relatively straightforward especially since Envy could later do the same thing.


Also why are you taking Lust referring to her heart as her actual heart? That logic is blatantly false, especially taking the " around the word heart. The Regenerationn of a Homunculi isn't based on the amount of damage done to them, they regenerate from the amount of Souls the Stone has, regenerating from being blown to bits, vaporized, Deconstructed or making new bodies from the Stone's soul Stock Pile. Homunculi should have Limited Low-Godly Regenerationn that's based on the amount of souls the Stone has within it.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
They can create brand new bodies from the Philosophers Stone right? Unless you destroy the Stone they will keep coming back.
Click to expand...

More or less, the Stone isn't something that can be broken with pure AP either, it's unbreakable as long as it has enough Souls to sustain itself. It acts as the core of the Homunculi, it's very essence. Not as the literal heart of the Homunculi, Homunculi has normal functioning hearts as well.
 
Ogbunabali said:
Yeah, this is like the gems situation. High-Mid is good.
Click to expand...

It's absolutely nothing like the Gem situation, the mechanics are entirely different. Several characters are outright vaporized and regenerate and said Regenerationn is based on regenerating from a massive stock pile of souls.


And there is no such thing as a "safe choice." whenever said safer choice is seriously lacking context and leaving out bits of information to make it seem like it's a statement of Contradictory. Roy even directly states they can't underestimate her regenerative capabilities after stating that she's been vaporized and felt her fat on his lips. Also the Stone isn't even a solid stone, it's can be a liquid to just about any substance really. It's also pretty funny that Homunculi are also technically souls, just pushed into a sack of flesh, as seen with Greed and Ling. The Stone is what gives them type 8, Homunculi regenerate from the stock pile of souls from within said stone. Hence why it should be "limited Low-Godly Regenerationn" due to being soul based regen.
 
I agree with Prince. The Regenerationn is based on the souls in the stone, not the literal stone itself. As long as there are souls, the stone will remain, and the body will continuously regenerate.

The stone ONLY vanishes once the pool of souls within it has been expended--hence why Lust could not regenerate forever and died before striking Mustang, and Envy was reduced to a miserable form on two occasions and left at a near-death state until absorbing more souls. Same applies to literally every other case of a Homunculus dying.

It's definitely Low-Godly, but requires an outside source via souls from other living things, therefore it's limited.
 
I agree with Prince and Cin. As long as their essence is linked to their stone, they will continue to be recreated. It's qualified by needing a stone that has a stock of soul energy though. Envy on his last life wouldn't have such Regenerationn for instance. I'm pretty sure King Bradley / Wrath was made from a one-soul stone as well. Do we know if he has any feats of regen? [Note that my knowledge of the verse comes from the Anime and I'm unsure if it's different from the Manga].
 
Bradley killed all of the souls in his stone, only one was left in the stone afterwards. It's unknown if it's his original soul or not but that's what makes Bradley different from the other Homunculi.
 
After reading this thread, I am uncertain in either direction. My apologies.
 
I will be busy in life soon so I aim to reply to the new Low-Godly's points later.
 
I did see some good points from Prince and Cin, but going to lean towards the OP for now.
 
I'm neutral for the time being, gonna have to wait for more points on either side to take a side since both seems to have valid arguments.
 
Ok, here is my reply:

Based on the definition of Low-Godly Regenerationn, Regenerationn from the philosopher stone would not be Low-Godly.

  • Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body, instead restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other nonphysical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else.
Inceration is not complete physical destruction because the ashes, molecules, atom, and energy of the target remained so the Regenerationn would not be Low-Godly, from this point. Even if characters can regenerate from soul(s), it does not mean their Regenerationn is Low-Godly especially when the Regenerationn does not follow the Low-Godly definition. I think Promestein made great points here why the Regenerationn would not be Low-Godly from the philosopher stone.

In short, the primary reason why they would not get Low-godly is that the affected characters don't show nor have supporting statements or evidence that they have the ability to regenerate from the "Complete physical destruction of their body". Complete physical destruction of the body would mean all molecules, atoms, or sub-atomic particles were destroyed.

From the High-Mid Regenerationn viewpoint, I do agree that philosopher stones would not break unless they run of souls that are used up from Regenerationn; however, even Envy in his weakest state could break the philosopher stone when a philosopher stone ran out of enough soul. Note, Envy died after he broke his philosopher stone which supports the argument from High-Mid regarding the philosopher stone as the stone being part of their body as a core. So, overall, Regenerationn shouldn't be Low-Godly. Apologies, I believe a lot of people know caveats of these characters' Regenerationn before.

Here is something new; it is on the Low-High Regenerationn. The philosopher stone can change it states a liquid (here and here) depending on its container; the scans were brought forth by The Prince of Counters. So, based on the evidence on the liquid stated of the philosopher stone, Low-High Regenerationn still valid since the affected characters can regenerate from their philosopher stones. Envy's death after breaking the philosopher stone could be a major contradiction. However, I think Envy should not have died from broking a philosopher stone since it is like a liquid, also; on that event, Envy should have died if the liquid was evaporated on something like that.I think Envy's death was Plot-Induced Stupidity.

I believe some profiles like Father (Fullmetal Alchemist)'s mentioned that "Regenerationn drained souls" as weakness so I think it best if added to those other affected profiles that I mentioned in the OP that would be affected; it also works as a better explanation than "Weaknesses: If he/she is killed enough times, she/he'll run out of lives." on some of those profiles. From discussion on with The Prince of Counters on my message wall, we think these texts would be appropriate for the weakness to all the affected profiles:

  • If killed enough times The Homunculi will lose all it's souls and will lose its ability to regenerate.
I think of adding these options:

  • Regenerationn (High-Mid; reliant on the philosopher stone. The philosopher stone has show to not be destroyed by from comparable or higher attack potency to the user unless it runs out of souls used from Regenerationn. Regenerationn will not happen if the amount of soul from the philosopher stone is low, also.)
Assuming Low-High Regenerationn is fine, I think this text works:

  • Regenerationn (Low-High; reliant on the philosopher stone which is an exotic matter that can take the form of a solid or liquid. The philosopher stone has show to not be destroyed by from comparable or higher attack potency to the user unless it runs out of souls used from Regenerationn. Regenerationn will not happen if the amount of soul from the philosopher stone is low, also.)
I will say souls can be obtained from soul absorption/absorption which can negate their Regenerationn caveats like from what Envy, Pride and Father (Fullmetal Alchemist) can do. So, for Envy, Pride and Father (Fullmetal Alchemist), this option could for as an addition to their Weakness description:

  • Could use absorption to bypass the Regenerationn weakness on the lack of souls.
Edit: the Regenerationn's description to be more accurate.
 
The simple fact of the matter is that the body WILL return so long as there are souls within the Philosopher Stone--so in fact, this actually proves that it is Low-Godly.

Just because we've only seen them incinerated does not debunk the clear fact that their body returns to normal due to the souls--even if they theoretically were to be completely erased (minus the souls in the stone--which the stone is literally made from human souls).

Again, Low-Godly says this: "The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body, instead restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other nonphysical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else".

  • They are restoring their bodies from the actual souls--NOT their body parts, and it only stops when the souls run out--ultimately causing them to lose their regenerative powers and simultaneously destroy the stone.
 
The only thing I'll agree on is that Envy's death was inconsistent, as Envy as a whole was very different than the Other Homunculi. I'll go over the points with Eliza here now. I also don't appreciate you linking Prom's comments despite her not having any clue as to what she's talking about regarding Fullmetal Alchemist.


Low-Godly
Inceration is not complete physical destruction because the ashes, molecules, atom, and energy of the target remained so the Regenerationn would not be Low-Godly, from this point. Even if characters can regenerate from soul(s), it does not mean their Regenerationn is Low-Godly especially when the Regenerationn does not follow the Low-Godly definition. I think Promestein made great points here why the Regenerationn would not be Low-Godly from the philosopher stone.

In short, the primary reason why they would not get Low-godly is that the affected characters don't show nor have supporting statements or evidence that they have the ability to regenerate from the "Complete physical destruction of their body". Complete physical destruction of the body would mean all molecules, atoms, or sub-atomic particles were destroyed.


Let me start out with covering the argument's presented against Low-Godly, which aren't even points since i didn't use anything the OP used as a counterargument for my arguments for Low-Godly. First I've never said Lust would have Low-Godly Regenerationn through her incineration feat, but her body recreation feat should be considered since she regenerated from essentially what is a massive amalgamation of Souls.


The reason why Homunculi as a whole ( Excluding Wrath ) should have Low-Godly Regenerationn. I literally explained all of this in my blog regarding the Stone itself but I'll briefly skim over what the Philosopher Stone is and what it does exactly.


The Philosopher Stone is created by sacrificing a multitude of Human Souls, usually dozens, to hundreds, to thousands, to millions of Souls ( with Homunculi typically speaking having hundreds, Father has half a million and access to 50 Million in his later form. ) This Stone goes by many names, so it's not valid to actually consider it a real "stone", it's known as the Grand Elixir, the Sages Star, the Fifth Element, it goes by many names. When a human-like creature is made with this, what we call a Homunculi is made. Homunculi are resistant to most forms of poisons, toxins, venoms, etc but most importantly Homunculi are creatures that are virtually immortal. Typically speaking a Homunculi can regenerate using their massive Stock Pile of Souls, regenerating and Resurrecting as long as they need if they have Souls to regenerate from. The damage in question has gone from being decapitated, blown to chunks, having the insides Deconstruction on a Sub-Atomic level, being vaporized and most impressive creating a new body entirely using the Stone. The is Regenerationn that's reliant on the amounts souls one has, it's what they regenerate from, and it's even their being, as Homunculi truly exist as Souls.


Homunculi will continue to indefinitely regenerate and resurrect as long as they have enough Souls in them, this is shown every time a Homunculi is killed, with Envy being able to absorb more Soul to regenerate from and the reason why Wrath is unable to regenerate. ( Wrath was originally able to regenerate, but he killed all the Souls within him, which is why he's unable to regenerate. ) the argument that being made against Low-Godly at the moment is simply one that exploits The Stone being well, a stone ( which it really isn't the substance of the actual thing itself is unknown but all a Philosopher's Stone really is a bunch of Souls. ) The Stone can also be considered the Soul itself as seen with Edward using his own soul to heal himself as if he were transmuting the Stone. Greed and the other Homunculi also exists are Souls as well. I'll note that Edo-Tensei have Low-Godly Regenerationn for an even lesser reason and even characters from Dies Irae have Low-Godly Regenerationn the same reason, and way Homunculi regenerate is exactly the same. Hell, Greed can still even stay alive as just a soul after he had his stone depleted by Wrath and Father, just incapacitated for not having a human body to hijack and the fact that he was in Father.


Low-High
This is actually what the Regenerationn is at the bare minimum so this'll have to replace what you have in the OP since High-Mid is no longer valid, which also means that i don't need to cover this much. This also automatically renders the notion of High-Mid null.


Weaknesses rewording and additions for Homunculi
This is perhaps the Easiest, you don't need to do much here. It's simple, every Homunculi barring Wrath would get Absorption added to their profiles for being able to absorb souls from an outside source to increase their stock pile of souls.


The weaknesses would look like this Will run out of souls to regenerate from if killed enough times, resulting the Homunculi to revert to another form or turn into dust, killing them for good. Although this is somewhat circumvented by Homunculi being able to absorb souls to add to their stone.


Conclusion
We have a few options to go with here, 3 in particular. The first option is what i believe is the most accurate here, since there are various statements, feats and well the narrative of the plot of the series itself supports. Personally speaking i think Option 1 & 2 are the best since those are the most factual correct conclusions and are backed up by the context and narrative of this story. The con side is also arguing the amount of damage is something to consider, which it isn't. The Regenerationn isn't based on the extent of damage it can heal from, it regenerating from everything in general as long as the Stone has Souls.


Option 1: "Limited Low-Godly Regenerationn" ( for reasons I've already stated. )


Option 2: "At Least Mid-High, possibly Low-Godly"


Option 3: "At Least Low-High, possibly Mid-High"
 
@Prince - I agree with almost everything said, and I already threw in my opinion. I am however in disagreement with you suggesting Envy's death was "inconsistent".

To touch on the "unique cases":

People bring up Wrath and Envy, but:

  • Wrath is explained IN-MANGA/ANIME multiple times to have killed off every other soul in the stone before he became who he was (as a Homunculi). Therefore Regenerationn simply was not an option, and his body aged unlike the others because there was only a single soul within the stone. No more.
  • As for Envy, he was in his weakened state. He could not regenerate anymore, and was on the verge of death due to losing all of the souls in his stone from Mustang's constant explosions destroying his body over and over while constantly regenerating. The stone was crushed by a weak Envy simply because it was already powerless, barely sustaining Envy (He was stated to die VERY soon anyways).
    • Envy could not regenerate anymore, removed the stone from his body, and then destroyed it, as it had no souls to regen Envy further. The stones simply vanish after the pool of souls are used up. Envy's death meets this condition.
Both cases are clearly not outliers, but explained in-lore. Why people don't get that is beyond me.

I'm for Option 1 completely.
 
He kinda already mentioned about Bradley killing all his soul beforehand. It's only Envy's case where he said it's likely attributed to inconsistency
 
I agree with Elizhaa. My apologies. Even though they regenerate from the energy of souls, they are still dependent on the stones to do so. It the stones are broken by a superior power, the homunculi wouldn't be able to recover.
 
Which is a ridiculous and asinine notion, The Complete Stone can't be destroyed by AP, which is why he's arguing Low-High rather than Low-Godly since he believes the Stone is something that can be broken with attack, which it can't. It can only be broken if the Stone is actually depleted, which is what the Homunculi regenerate from. Low-High comes from the assumption that you can break, which it isn't. The Stone will continue to regenerate endlessly as long as it has power, and won't be destroyed until that point.


Homunculi are dependent on the souls inside the Stone, not the actual stone itself. Which A isn't actually a stone and B is useless without direct access of a stock pile of souls.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Saying it can't be destroyed by AP means it has infinite durability which is not happening.
Click to expand...


Classic Strawman Fallacy, The Stone not being able to be destroyed through physical means doesn't equate into it have infinite durability, because durability is meaningless to The Stone. The Con arguements stem from the Stone itself not being immaterial, which for one isn't needed for Low-Godly, secondly the Stone itself isn't what Homunculi are dependent on, they're dependent on the Souls and in fact exist as souls. The Stone isn't what's needed to regenerate from, it's the souls that's what needed to regenerate from.
 
I don't understand what your saying and I'm not being sarcastic I'm genuinely confused.

Note that I agree with Elizhaa right now.
 
Why are you confused exactly? The reply was pretty straightforward foward.


Right now, Elizhaa is under the assumption that the physical state of the Stone is what matters for the Homunculi to regenerate from. Which sounds nice on paper but that's misconstruing on how things works.


The Physical State of the Stone is irrelevant for what the Homunculi regenerate from. The Stone itself as in the substance that's used to house the souls isn't what Homunculi are reliant on, which is what the OP and his supporters are arguing.


The Homunculi are in fact dependent on the amount of souls, not the substance itself. As long as the souls exist then the Homunculi in question will continue to regenerate, they are reliant on the souls, not the substance of the Stone otherwise they'd be fine with the physical state of the stone being in tact despite the souls being depleted, it's actually the other way around. Homunculi will only die if the stock pile of souls is either

1: The Soul Stock pile is depleted

2: The Souls are absorbed along with the Homunculi


Hell, the fact that Greed came back without permanently dying after his enitre being being melted and then absorbed by Father should be more than proof enough that the substance of the Philosopher's Stone is irrelevant.
 
The stone being a liquid just means Low-High right?

"The Physical State of the Stone is irrelevant for what the Homunculi regenerate from."

I don't remember that being stated, you got any scans? Since I'm sure if all of the stone's atoms were erased it'd stop working. Going be honest I can't follow this, I'm going wait for Elizhaa.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Saying it can't be destroyed by AP means it has infinite durability which isn't happening.
Click to expand...
I admit I could be wrong on the AP's point; I am fine to change the text says the stone to limit NLF on durability; it is just the philsopher stone never really show to be have broken by comparable or way superior Attack Potency like Envy vs Roy Mustang's case except when in the case, it is low on souls or run out of souls.
 
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