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Frieza's 4-C rating.

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Kepekley23 said:
I fact check everything I say in a DB debate, my dude.
Click to expand...
Yeah that fair enough although a quick manga read would be useful anyway just for a off chance of a missed quote from a potential character or reliable source.
 
I agree with Kepekley and Cal etc.

I am not even that big of a fan of backward's scaling means auto nope, but even if you were generous, you are still getting a Low 4-C frieza with math.

I am not gonna comment any further on this for obvious reasons, but DBZ is a mess.
 
He said Goku was 3 Tenatons scaling from being well above 3rd Form Frieza, then Kaioken x20 = 50% Frieza with SSJ > 100% Frieza. That's where 120 Tenatons came from.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Most of your statements are filler-only. 3rd Form Freeza never said he was twice as strong as before in the manga.

Considering 20% is often enough to make someone "considerably stronger" than their opponent on DBZ:

1.7+20% puts 2nd Form Freeza at ~2.04.

His third form would then be in the ~2.5 range.

His True Form would be 3.

40*3 = 120 tenatons, still Low 4-C
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^
 
1

Narrator: "Vegeta's strength has greatly surpassed what Goku had figured on...! That power was such that not even the Kaio-Ken, which doubled Goku's battle power, could give Goku the upper hand... What will you do?! Goku!!"

Goku: "Shit…!! His power and speed… [ ] I can't keep up, even with the Kaio-Ken x2. [ ] I don't care if my body breaks or I die! I've gotta up the Kaio-Ken to x3!!"

Goku believes he has no chance against Vegeta with the Kaioken x2'

2

Vegeta: "I killed Dodoria!! Dodoria, so proud of his tremendous strength!! And it was easy!! Heh… My new abilities surprise even me… The battle on Earth wasn't a waste at all."

Dodoria is above 20,000 and gets straight up one-shotted by Vegeta, with a battle power of 24,000.

3.

Context: after beating up Zarbon Vegeta: "Hahhahahah! At that level, you're helpless!" Zarbon: "I'm astonished, you've truly made marvelous progress…"

Vegeta easily manhandles Zarbon by being fast enough to vanish from his view, catching his punches while smiling, and slapping away his strongest ki blast with ease.

Low power gaps = already enough to stomp has been a thing even in the Cell Saga
 
So power levels are getting used here?. If so kaioken x20 multiplied goku pl by literally 20. Ya dont want to get into that shit mate and myself, well yeah also dont. That shit is bad.

Also the Vegeta example with goku? He merely equaled him and Vegeta took the blast and was back later. While freeza could murder his previously equal opponents while utilizing minimal effort.
 
So we are only supposed to use power levels when they are linear but when we also use power levels to justify one-shot potential for a gap as small as 10-20 percent, we can't use them?

Does anyone else not notice how inconsistent this logic is?

Kepekley is right, I might not on his page all the time, but this scaling just needs to go.

Edit: Autocorrect keeps messing up my posts, I will come back to this in a few if there is an issue, but looks pretty clear cut to me.
 
I already know what rating we could get if we use PL scaling [Including gap between characters and multipliers]: It ranges from FTL 5-A Base Saiyan Saga Vegeta to MFTL+ High 4-C 100% Frieza, which is....yeah.
 
> If so kaioken x20 multiplied goku pl by literally 20 Ya dont want to get into that shit mate and myself, well yeah also dont.

> Ya do not have agree with me but at least factor kaioken.

?

> Also the Vegeta example with goku? He merely equaled him

He objectively did not, as the actual quotes state. Goku said he was no match even with the Kaio-ken x2. Vegeta fired one blast while grinning and Goku was blown away even after slightly dodging it. Right after that one showing, he says he is no match for Vegeta.

> Also didnt Goku do kaiokenx4 and equal Vegeta with that?

And?
 
That was before i realized how exactly ya got the end. A only 20 percent boost is far below what is acceptable.

Also my point was according to ya the 20 percent boost was enough to equal a stomp. Youre wrong. Vegeta was actually double as he was equal to goku kaioken four yet youre doing x3.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Also my point was according to ya the 20 percent boost was enough to equal a stomp. Youre wrong. Vegeta was actually double as he was equal to goku kaioken four yet youre doing x3.
Click to expand...
Kepekley's point from what I gathered is that a stomp in db is inconsistent, which can range from a 10-20 percent gap in power to at most 2-3x gap.

There is also skill, that is an important value we can measure in a matchup

Or a character's mind set.

Freeza could have easily killed everyone in form three, but he chose to instead to go to his final form to show off.

So really, a stomp in db is inconsistent.

Should use the low value, not the high value.
 
As I've demonstrated again and again, 20% is a thing in the manga.

Vegeta was vastly below Goku's Kaioken x3 or Kaioken x4. In no moment was he equal to any of them. However, despite the negligible power difference between him and Goku's Kaio-ken x2, he was much stronger than it.
 
Agreed, it's even worse for the Buu saga were we only use Super Cell's 4-B cal

Buu saga must be the only thing that wont change ever. 4-B is the correct rating for everyone from SPC to dbs.
 
Dude correct me if I'm wrong but the dodirua example is completely reliant on pl scaling. In which case freeza doubles from first and second form. Going the pl route wont change a thing.

And Vegeta was almost equal with kaiokenx4 goku. The beam struggle.
 
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Vegeta was way more than 20% stronger than Dodoria now that I think about it; PL's are so non-linear, but Kaioken is pretty linear.
 
And going the route of randomly highballing values isn't changing anything either. If you want to be fair, you'll have to discard every single multiplier.

That was with the Garlick Gun. Normal Vegeta was vastly inferior to both KKx3 and KKx4. Literally got his ass handed to him.
 
If you consider the Kaioken linear, then you also have to consider Vegeta's power level during the Earth fight linear. In which case, Vegeta holding a 12% advantage over Goku was already enough for him to believe fighting him without the KKx3 was utterly hopeless.
 
High ball? I was doing 1.5. Thinking second form freeza and fourth form not even a 2x boost is most definitely not a high ball kep.

Yeah. Which was equal with a kamehameha. Also ya think maybe that was a form of pis as goku was doing his cool new form at the moment?. As he did equal kaiokenx4 moments later.
 
Considering Dragon Ball has zero consistency with scaling, no number is actually valid here if you actually want to keep your posts consistent with each other.

Vegeta's Galick Gun is an amplified attack, basically his strongest move. No such thing as "PIS". Vegeta was literally getting destroyed.

Vegeta: "This…this cannot be happening!!! I…I am a Super Elite!! I can not be beaten by some lower-level warrior like him!!! [ ] I am the best in the universe…!!!!"
 
@Pachi

Agreed, but the Boo Saga has stuff like Base Gotenks (post-RoSaT) > Super Saiyan Gotenks (pre-RoSaT) > Super Saiyan 3 Goku, so they do go sizeably higher into the 4-B spectrum
 
Goku or Vegeta never one-shotted each other during that entire fight technically, blitzing yes, but neither one of them had lost body parts nor were knocked totally unconscious. Still, Vegeta's PL being 18,000 is also using PL ratings again. Vegeta is legit between Kaioken times 2 and 3, but that's still not entirely AP multiplied several times over either way.
 
Yes, you can, as I've already shown in this thread.

Goku's Kaioken x3 Kamehameha was not as amplified as Vegeta's Galick Gun, so he used KKx4 to push him back.

Their normal ratings without amplified moves is KKx3 or KKx4 Goku stomping Vegeta.
 
> Goku or Vegeta ever one-shotted each other during that entire fight technically, blitzing yes, but neither one of them had lost body parts nor were knocked totally unconscious. Still, Vegeta's PL being 18,000 is also using PL ratings again. Vegeta is legit between Kaioken times 2 and 3, but that's still not entirely AP multiplied several times over either way.

Once again, Goku stated that his KKx2 was no match for full-power Vegeta, and then went KKx3 and began demolishing Vegeta with utter ease. If Goku's power level was linear during that battle, Vegeta's also has to be.

Which leads to what I said about power gaps, of course.

If you reject Vegeta's power level being linear during that battle, we discard Goku's Kaioken, which is something we had already brought up in the past to avoid inflation. Which leads to power levels as a whole being unusable.
 
Ya showed a pl example and this. Bet ya the amount of examples that contradict that out weigh an anomaly . And im saying logically. Ya cant. Actually impossibke.


Stomping? Ass kick at most. Not ohko and fatality shit that freeza does often. Youre litterally saying first and fourth form below a 2x boost. Even low balling thats not being conservative. He litterally had the power to ohko lethally vegeta and piccolo and Gohan prior to the spirit bomb. Also the kamehameha an amplified attack also.
 
> Ya showed a pl example and this. Bet ya the amount of examples that contradict that out weigh an anomaly . And im saying logically. Ya cant. Actually impossibke.

The vast majority of examples involve people toying around and still literally ******** on everyone weaker than them.

> Stomping? Ass kick at most.

Same thing.

> t. Not ohko and fatality shit that freeza does often.

50% Freeza can't even one shot Base Goku. Should we apply that as the minimum one shot gap across the entire series?

> oure litterally saying first and fourth form below a 2x boost.

Nothing prevents that. You just say it doesn't "feel" like they should be that low. As far as evidence goes...
 
Yeah. Which ya cant do with a boost of 0 3.

No. A Stomping would have a factor of lethality. Which freeza proved he could while doing one move while exerting no effort man.

50 freeza didnt even try. When he did piccolo bit the dust.

No im saying its litterally impossible. Feats alone disprove what ya claim.
 
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