- 8,438
- 3,293
88x is approaching two orders of magnitude. That is the difference between Peter Dinklage and a skyscraper.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Frieza's 4-C rating.
- Thread starter Dzhindzholia
- Start date
-
- Tags
- cell dragon ball frieza majin buu
- Status
- 40,459
- 12,939
If we wanna use Pokémon as an example, adolescent Pokémon like Wartortle are 3.4% SoL. A Pokémon doesn't even need to be 1.5x faster to be Sub-Rel+.
Speed form Deoxys, Mega Mewtwo, and even Perfect Zygarde are all "At least Sub-Rel."
Speed form Deoxys, Mega Mewtwo, and even Perfect Zygarde are all "At least Sub-Rel."
- 465
- 25
Power levels are legit in terms of officially confirmed power levels from toriyama and frieza got at least 200x more powerful than his first form when in his true form.
- 8,438
- 3,293
@Son
Power levels are not even close to legit.
Power levels are not even close to legit.
- 40,459
- 12,939
Country level Farmer with a Shotgun when?
- 465
- 25
Toriyama created them, he only stopped using them as it was too much hassle and he prefers to keep things simple.
- 1,780
- 411
The whole point of power levels was that they were useless and unreliable, and pretty much served the device of "omg, the scouter's breaking, it, like, can't even hold all of these numbers, ur so stronk".
So..yeah, that's a no-go, probably. Still--the scaling is nice and linear between Freeza and SPC the way we have it now, as far as I can tell. I don't see what's wrong with it. If you take away the 4-C rating, you'll have people questioning if the Androids and Perfect Cell are really 4-C/High 4-C themselves, and then next thing you'll know we'll have the "SPC's 4-B is hyperbole because how did he jump so many orders of magnitude" threads going again.
So..yeah, that's a no-go, probably. Still--the scaling is nice and linear between Freeza and SPC the way we have it now, as far as I can tell. I don't see what's wrong with it. If you take away the 4-C rating, you'll have people questioning if the Androids and Perfect Cell are really 4-C/High 4-C themselves, and then next thing you'll know we'll have the "SPC's 4-B is hyperbole because how did he jump so many orders of magnitude" threads going again.
- 8,438
- 3,293
@Cal pretty sure you'd have country-destroying literal babies too, since I don't think it can go below 1.
- 19,123
- 6,335
SPC's tier shouldn't affect that of anyone weaker than him at all.
People being massively weaker than others is a thing, and DB is one of the prime examples.
Goku goes from high end 5-B to Low 4-C during the Namek Saga, doesn't mean that he needs a 5-A key in the middle
People being massively weaker than others is a thing, and DB is one of the prime examples.
Goku goes from high end 5-B to Low 4-C during the Namek Saga, doesn't mean that he needs a 5-A key in the middle
- 5,654
- 1,142
"The whole point of power levels was that they were useless and unreliable, and pretty much served the device of "omg, the scouter's breaking, it, like, can't even hold all of these numbers, ur so stronk"."
This isn't totally correct. Power Levels was only stopped being used because it literally told the viewer who would win in a fight (Fighting Skill is already accounted in Power Levels apparently too btw). If they kept using power levels, it's literally saying "This character will win" and then we'd have no tension since we'd know exactly what to expect then. The main character gets their ass kicked if the villain has superior numbers, zenkais or BS Friendship Power Ups, has a superior number, stomps Villain. No tension.
Other than that, you post is correct ;D
Also I don't see why you guys keep emphasizing the 88x difference thing. Freeza, First form, Casually, in his chair, with an energy ball generated from a finger, was able to perform the High 5-A feat that's practically next to Low 4-C. Several characters are superior to first form Freeza, and 2nd form stomps those people. Even if you take a bare minimum of "1.5x is needed to stomp other characters in DB", that'd already be AT MINIMUM Low 4-C. And then we have the entire upwards scaling where 50% Freeza is superior to Kaiokenx20 Goku, so therefore AT MINIMUM, Freeza is 40x stronger than base with complete disregard of upwards scaling.
Edit: also it's sort of a thing in DB where when a character goes serious or shows a sign of their true strength, their ki flares up. Goku vs Zamasu and Goku Black, Jiren going slightly serious against Goku (The scene where Goku goes "ocrap"), Goku vs Hit, and even examples in DBZ such as Goku vs Freeza (Goku had an aura on for the majority of the time actually, same with Freeza when they fought), Vegeta in like... all his battles, Trunks testing Goku, need I go on? So no, Freeza was absolutely casual doing the High 5-A feat. Literally nothing suggests he even got close to using max power.
This isn't totally correct. Power Levels was only stopped being used because it literally told the viewer who would win in a fight (Fighting Skill is already accounted in Power Levels apparently too btw). If they kept using power levels, it's literally saying "This character will win" and then we'd have no tension since we'd know exactly what to expect then. The main character gets their ass kicked if the villain has superior numbers, zenkais or BS Friendship Power Ups, has a superior number, stomps Villain. No tension.
Other than that, you post is correct ;D
Also I don't see why you guys keep emphasizing the 88x difference thing. Freeza, First form, Casually, in his chair, with an energy ball generated from a finger, was able to perform the High 5-A feat that's practically next to Low 4-C. Several characters are superior to first form Freeza, and 2nd form stomps those people. Even if you take a bare minimum of "1.5x is needed to stomp other characters in DB", that'd already be AT MINIMUM Low 4-C. And then we have the entire upwards scaling where 50% Freeza is superior to Kaiokenx20 Goku, so therefore AT MINIMUM, Freeza is 40x stronger than base with complete disregard of upwards scaling.
Edit: also it's sort of a thing in DB where when a character goes serious or shows a sign of their true strength, their ki flares up. Goku vs Zamasu and Goku Black, Jiren going slightly serious against Goku (The scene where Goku goes "ocrap"), Goku vs Hit, and even examples in DBZ such as Goku vs Freeza (Goku had an aura on for the majority of the time actually, same with Freeza when they fought), Vegeta in like... all his battles, Trunks testing Goku, need I go on? So no, Freeza was absolutely casual doing the High 5-A feat. Literally nothing suggests he even got close to using max power.
- 1,780
- 411
It shouldn't, no. But if the Androids are only 4-C from upscaling from Freeza, and Cell is only 4-C+ due to being stronger than them...there'd be a lot of downgrades. This isn't even the content revision board. >_>Kaltias said:
The point I'm trying to make is this: DB jumps tiers a lot just by "powering up", as the OP phrased it. What difference does it make with Freeza? We do this, and this same guy will make a thread in a month wondering why we think SPC isn't hyperbole because he jumps from mid-tier 4-C to 44x baseline 4-B (which is a much, much bigger gap than High 5-A to baseline 4-C).
- 15,407
- 5,723
Legit, Cell is way above 4-B baseline now. Backscaling people to High 4-C from him makes no sense now.
- 465
- 25
Still confirmed frieza went from 500,00 to 120,000,000 which is at least 200x first form. Its canon, like has been stated they were only stopped as they were getting in the way of the story etc.
- 4,143
- 571
- Thread starter
- #54
No other verse follows the same logic as DB,every other verse gets at least for being superior to other character or for stomping them.DB should not get a special treatment.
And don't use power levels,they are unreliable.
And don't use power levels,they are unreliable.
- 114
- 9
him usinga finger or not has no meaning when Ki is utilized, he could use no fingers andit would still mean no difference. him using a Finger is what he does when he uses the technique like Goku using both his Hands for kamehameha, him using a finger is not a measurement of how much energy he is using or if he is serious or not.Akreious said:
- 15,332
- 7,561
"Duuuh dood! Don'tchaaa knough dat means power levels arrr exponential rather dem additive???!!"The real cal howard said:
- Actual comicvine user
- 40,459
- 12,939
I...can't...not kudos that ovo.
- 5,654
- 1,142
"him usinga finger or not has no meaning when Ki is utilized, he could use no fingers andit would still mean no difference."
Have you seen what a character in DB does when they go all out? Flipping scream their lungs out to push. Even energy blasts are done like this (Kid Buu vs Spirit Bomb). You're attempting to say Freeza used 100% of his power against Planet Vegeta, I'm asking for evidence of such things. Sitting in your chair and laughing as you generate a giant ball of death from your finger doesn't seem to be "All-Out" to me. Especially since other Deathballs Freeza has performed were A) Against the Spirit Bomb (The Death Ball itself is visibly very different than the generic one he performed on Vegeta, although this death ball easily got pwned by the Spirit Bomb and likely wasn't even fully charged as the Spirit Bomb struck with surprise... somehow) and B) Against Super Saiyan Goku, where Goku easily punted it into space. And this one, again ,is very visibly different from Supernova (The attack Freeza used on Planet Vegeta). Burden of proof is on you guys, not me. We need evidence of him performing it "With 100% power" or some amount.
Have you seen what a character in DB does when they go all out? Flipping scream their lungs out to push. Even energy blasts are done like this (Kid Buu vs Spirit Bomb). You're attempting to say Freeza used 100% of his power against Planet Vegeta, I'm asking for evidence of such things. Sitting in your chair and laughing as you generate a giant ball of death from your finger doesn't seem to be "All-Out" to me. Especially since other Deathballs Freeza has performed were A) Against the Spirit Bomb (The Death Ball itself is visibly very different than the generic one he performed on Vegeta, although this death ball easily got pwned by the Spirit Bomb and likely wasn't even fully charged as the Spirit Bomb struck with surprise... somehow) and B) Against Super Saiyan Goku, where Goku easily punted it into space. And this one, again ,is very visibly different from Supernova (The attack Freeza used on Planet Vegeta). Burden of proof is on you guys, not me. We need evidence of him performing it "With 100% power" or some amount.
- 40,459
- 12,939
I don't beleive anyone's arguing for it being at 100% of Frieza's power.
That said, Frieza's go to move, the Death Beam, is done with one finger too, and not all of those are casual.
I'm undecided (not even neutral) on the level of casualness of Frieza destroying planet Vegeta, but just wanted to point that out.
That said, Frieza's go to move, the Death Beam, is done with one finger too, and not all of those are casual.
I'm undecided (not even neutral) on the level of casualness of Frieza destroying planet Vegeta, but just wanted to point that out.
- 14,195
- 2,574
"Full power" first form Frieza gets rid of his shoulder pads if I remember correctly from Frieza vs Vegeta, ignoring that while his attack was charged, he himself didn't actually charge his ki around him.
- 15,332
- 7,561
Freezercalcing with Kep.
I'll start off by assuming Freeza's feat was somewhat casual. So, to get the value of 1st form Freeza's full power, we take 1.7 and move it up to 2.
Assuming his power doubled with his second state, we move onto 4.
His third form lent a him relatively smaller increase. Let's say 6 to be generous.
His initial final state was somewhat stronger. We now go with 8.
Assuming he was using a tenth of his power against Goku before going to 100%, so 10 tenatons, we have 100% Freeza at 100 tenatons. Strong, but not 4-C strong.
Lower assumptions make him 75 tenatons, higher ones 120. It's plenty possible to be generous and still have Freeza below 4-C.
I'll start off by assuming Freeza's feat was somewhat casual. So, to get the value of 1st form Freeza's full power, we take 1.7 and move it up to 2.
Assuming his power doubled with his second state, we move onto 4.
His third form lent a him relatively smaller increase. Let's say 6 to be generous.
His initial final state was somewhat stronger. We now go with 8.
Assuming he was using a tenth of his power against Goku before going to 100%, so 10 tenatons, we have 100% Freeza at 100 tenatons. Strong, but not 4-C strong.
Lower assumptions make him 75 tenatons, higher ones 120. It's plenty possible to be generous and still have Freeza below 4-C.
- 22,231
- 18,404
I kind of disagree with one finger meaning casual. Frieza on Earth used one finger to charge the supernova, yet it wasn't casual... well for his 50% power form, not in general. But, as AK said, he wasn't screaming his lungs out when he blew up Planet Vegeta, unlike when he used it on Earth.
Also they can easily charge up a blast to their level of power within moments, as seen by pretty much every fight in DB, and, as cal said, the death beam. It's more powerful attacks that take time, like the Kamehameha against cell.
About the main topic, I both agree and disagree. It works extremely well with the androids due to the small gap from the low end of star level to large star level, and how they compare to solar system level (not really at that last one), but it doesn't work with scaling to frieza's lower Forms.
Also they can easily charge up a blast to their level of power within moments, as seen by pretty much every fight in DB, and, as cal said, the death beam. It's more powerful attacks that take time, like the Kamehameha against cell.
About the main topic, I both agree and disagree. It works extremely well with the androids due to the small gap from the low end of star level to large star level, and how they compare to solar system level (not really at that last one), but it doesn't work with scaling to frieza's lower Forms.
- 1,780
- 411
What I mean is, there was zero strain--no sweating, no screaming, not even a change in expression until he launches the ball, and then he's laughing. One finger isn't casual, no--it's the other signs that make it casual, such as the fact that he doesn't even so much as shift in his chair or have his aura flare up.ByAsura said:
- 1,780
- 411
"overcharged"ByAsura said:
overcharged = full power. >_>
- 40,459
- 12,939
For the record, I do believe there is at the very least, some degree of casualness in Frieza's nuke of vegetable planet.
- 1,780
- 411
...I'm not following. What are you talking about? They're either using full power, or they're suppressing themselves to some degree.ByAsura said:
- 14,195
- 2,574
@Kepe did you factor in kaio Ken?
- 40,459
- 12,939
Actual question, rather than countering. Do we see a flared aura that's not coming from the sword when Trunks is about to kill Zamasu?
EDIT: For an actual counter, I don't remember Roshi vs Goku having flaring auras, or even Goku vs either Piccolos.
EDIT: For an actual counter, I don't remember Roshi vs Goku having flaring auras, or even Goku vs either Piccolos.
- 7,156
- 2,157
Trunks's sword was the flared aura and he had a glow :^)
Auras really became a thing after kaioken
Auras really became a thing after kaioken
- 14,195
- 2,574
They did, but only when using their stronger attacks that were more taxing.
- 14,195
- 2,574
Anyways, I think Kepe highballed the calculation (Ignoring the fact that the kaio ken was forgotten.) I think assuming that the gap between 1st form Frieza and 4th form Frieza being 2x~ is conservative, but better. (And then put the gap shown by kaio ken x20 and 50% Frieza resulting in 4-C, and there ya go)
- Status
Similar threads
