Frieza's 4-C rating.

[AKM sama]

I've already detailed how he can be lower than 4-C. There's a lot of room for it.

Which assumes that Frieza did not even power up by 2.2x after transforming thrice, which as I pointed above is completely unrealistic given the long chain of scaling.

The chances of ^ this happening are far less likely than the alternate, which is why I am stressing on "Likely" 4-C.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@AKM

If we wanna use Pokémon as an example, adolescent Pokémon like Wartortle are 3.4% SoL. A Pokémon doesn't even need to be 1.5x faster to be Sub-Rel+.

Speed form Deoxys, Mega Mewtwo, and even Perfect Zygarde are all "At least Sub-Rel."

 

[Kepekley23]

The numbers I chose are backed up by several feats in the manga. It might be unrealistic to you, but to me it isn't.

 

[AKM sama]

The numbers I chose are well backed up by several feats in the manga. It might be unrealistic to you, but to me it isn't.

Which were PLs and do not matter as they are inconsistent and non-linear.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Low 4-C Freeza seems the most reasoanble.

 

[Kepekley23]

They are inconsistent and non-linear, which is exactly why arguing about power gaps isn't any use. We should go with the low end in that case.

 

[AKM sama]

@Cal

Then by that logic, Freezer should be "At least" Low 4-C.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, just a note, but Piccolo in the Cell Games should likely scale to the Cell Jrs

He was fighting alongside Vegeta and Trunks while everyone else was passed out on the ground

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Cal

Then by that logic, Freezer should be "At least" Low 4-C.

I mean...he should.

 

[Kepekley23]

Yeah.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Just chucking my hat back in and saying that this is total guesswork and nothing but "at least High 5-A" can be confirmed 100%.

The fact that he can be so many things makes giving him a concrete tier for what amounts to speculation makes this unjustifiable imo.

 

[Kepekley23]

If nothing else, the lowball should suffice.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, he can't be High 5-A if he is High 5-A+, then gains a boost which is at least x20 even ignoring everything else

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

^

Yes, Freeza has a quantifiable boost of at least x40. He was => Kaioken x20 while at only 50% power.

 

[Kepekley23]

If you consider him a "3" against Goku, we get 120 teratons.

 

[Antvasima]

I am afraid that I am not of much help here, but I would appreciate more staff input.

 

[Dark649]

Also, just a note, but Piccolo in the Cell Games should likely scale to the Cell Jrs
He was fighting alongside Vegeta and Trunks while everyone else was passed out on the groud.

Cell said that only Trunks and Vegeta are the only one that can fight them back. Since Piccolo is seen fighting one, he should not be comparable to them but fairly close.
Note: The Cell Jr. are equal to a casual Cell and considerably weaker than Full Power Cell.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Freeza: Low 4-C
Vegeta, Piccolo, Trunks and Goku (Android Saga): 4-C.

Piccolo fusing with Kami grants him twice his strength according to Guru, so Imperfect Cell (after absorbing Ginger Town) and Android 16 become High 4-C.

Everyone stagnates after that, with FPSSj Gohan and Goku gaining "At least High 4-C, possibly 4-B", and SSj2 Gohan getting 4-B

I'm fine with this.

 

[Kepekley23]

@Dark

Herms:

"Note: Cell says that "Vegeta ya Trunks" are fighting evenly; ya is a non-exhaustive word for 'and', meaning the things listed aren't necessarily the only things there are to list. In other words, Cell's line doesn't necessarily mean that nobody but Trunks or Vegeta are fighting evenly, just that they're the first examples to come to mind."

 

[Dark649]

Ok.

 

[TurboTriangle601]

@Kep Honestly I think MSS Goku/Gohan should get a solid 4-B tier since I strongly doubt they are 44+ times weaker linear power levels or not.

 

[AKM sama]

I strongly doubt they are 44+ times weaker linear power levels or not.

Proof of them not being 44+ times weaker than SPC? If there is any implication that they were not that far behind SPC then it's fine, but I highly doubt there is.

 

[PaChi2]

@AKM sama

well, ASS vegeta could stagger SPC with a final flash (at least I think it was a final flash). MSS is superior to vegeta.

 

[Antvasima]

Freeza: Low 4-C
Vegeta, Piccolo, Trunks and Goku (Android Saga): 4-C.

Piccolo fusing with Kami grants him twice his strength according to Guru, so Imperfect Cell (after absorbing Ginger Town) and Android 16 become High 4-C.

Everyone stagnates after that, with FPSSj Gohan and Goku gaining "At least High 4-C, possibly 4-B", and SSj2 Gohan getting 4-B

I also think that this seems mostly reasonable, with the exception that Vegeta and Trunks at the end of the Android Saga should not be that inferior to Goku, much less Piccolo.

 

[Kaltias]

High 4-C scaling backwards from someone in the KiloFoe really doesn't make sense.

Also what makes them comparable to SPC?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Gohan in Buu saga should be roughly half as strong as Teen Gohan, and Buu Saga Gohan = Dabura = Perfect Cell (Non Super). At least possibly makes sense to me though.

 

[Kaltias]

But Perfect Cell doesn't have High 4-C nor 4-B feats

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

He does scale to due to being far superior A>>>>>>>B>>>>>>>>C to Androids 17, 18, and 16, as well as his previous forms and pre Time Chamber Z Fighters.

 

[Kaltias]

That won't make him anywhere close to 4-B, though.

If it's considered enough for High 4-C, fine by me, but 4-B is too much

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think about a High 4-C Perfect Cell Kepekley?

 

[Jobbo]

Buu Arc Gohan can't be half as strong as Kid Gohan, where'd you get that from? He provided half the energy needed to revive Buu.

Anyway, Perfect Cell was able to budge SSJ2 Gohan with his punch so he should be 4-B.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

SSJ2 Teen Gohan was blitzing Perfect Cell actually, but I agree that I doubt him to be That much weaker than Super Perfect Cell.

 

[Golden_Void]

Gohan one shot Perfect Cell and made him spit up Android 18, he's definitely not 4-B.

 

[ByAsura]

Being nearly heavily damaged in one hit by a more than 44x baseline doesn't mean that they aren't in the same tier, even including Cell being amped when he took the hit.

 

[Golden_Void]

>Heavily damaged

Gohan reverted him to a former state of being

Goku melted him

Vegeta melted him

4-B Z fighters for distracting SPC in his beam struggle against Gohan when

 

[ByAsura]

He was heavily damaged, he says himself he's heavily damaged. Regurgitating a being doesn't make the feat more impressive. The fact he wasn't even killed and his body was intact after the punch proves it.

I can't tell if that is directed at me, but if it is then that's an entirely different situation. Everyone was doing nothing to Cell until he was distracted, and, the one who distracted him, was easily knocked down after having a minute of firepower go to waste against Cell. Gohan is 44x baseline again, even being one shot doesn't disprove that.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Vegeta's the only one that actually distracted SPC in the Manga, and it was via surprise attack. Also, Distracting =/= damaging. I'm still somewhat neutral though, but definitely At least High 4-C for Cell saga Goku, SSJ1 Teen Gohan, and Buu saga Gohan at the very least.

 

[AKM sama]

Staggering SPC when he was heavily invested in a deadly beam struggle is not a feat. Vegeta did no damage, just managed to give him a little jerk. It's not enough to be considered a feat.

Imho, nobody below SPC should be 4-B.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

4-B non-Super Perfect Cell is pushing it, especially since he made a big deal of being able to destroy the solar system only after becoming Super Perfect, and being 44x base is specified by calc, not in-universe. There isn't a canon multiplier that would really contradict High 4-C Perfect Cell becoming 4-B Super Perfect Cell.

 

[ByAsura]

I wasn't really advocating for it, i was just saying that reasoning doesn't work.

@Azathoth

Yes, he made a big deal, but we use calcs and scaling here. Plus, everyone makes a big deal about planet busting, does that mean they're only planet level?