Frieren: Beyond Journey's End Discussion Thread

[Zabazab]

Yeah the main issue I have is what to actually use for stats. Like can magic LS feats done with a specific spell even be scaled between mages? It'd be weird. I wish Edel using generic TK to launch boulders was in the manga...

 

[KobsterHope07]

Yeah the main issue I have is what to actually use for stats. Like can magic LS feats done with a specific spell even be scaled between mages? It'd be weird. I wish Edel using generic TK to launch boulders was in the manga...

Probably shouldn’t tbh unless some comparison between the spells or casters was made

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah the main issue I have is what to actually use for stats. Like can magic LS feats done with a specific spell even be scaled between mages? It'd be weird. I wish Edel using generic TK to launch boulders was in the manga...

I wouldn't. Unless like, extra info is given.

Like we can obviously say that Frieren could replicate the spell, but can she use TK or grav magic to lift up a mountain in the same vain that dude ripped out a plateau? Probably not, different spells, one does one thing, the other don't.
(As an fyi, someone recalc that using shear strength, that rock was torn out of the ground, probably Class T tbh).

 

[Epyriel]

Don't matter, it isn't an AP feat in the slightest. It's hax, it's treated as hax in context too.
Also at no point do they actually treat his transmutation as a symbol of actual offensive power.

Based on what? I’m struggling to imagine a case where transmutation is more explicitly depicted as an offensive power.

He has extremely high mana, about that of Frieren and Sol, he's powerful too, but him being the strongest due to it is more "yeah he can instantly effectively kill you and nobody can do a thing so he's unbeatable" not "he can transmute all this land which translates to him being stupidly strong".

Most quotes made about him imply both, not one or the other. Serie explicitly mentions how he is powerful enough to transmute the entire Northern Plateau over time in her warning, which is not just a matter of “oh it is hard to defend against” but explicitly makes mention of the quantity of matter he can transmute as a marker of his power.

Which isn't AP.

Based on what? Downsizing transmutation calculation rules are also established as a method of AP calculation on VSBW.

That isn't even how UES work. Some super weak ass magic takes mana, while some extremely strong magic is negligible, some spells have been optimized, some haven't, etc.

Frieren doesn't even have a true "UES", let's not pretend it does, them having mana which is a universal trait, but that doesn't mean every specific spell is interchangeable in terms of mana. A mage could have a 5-B spell that costs nothing for example.

There is a reason your anti-feat is purely hypothetical. Because repeatedly throughout the manga raw concentration attacks are used as deciding metrics in battle while more dramatic larger scale attacks are used with the implication of burning through mana more quickly (such as Denken’s final gambit against Frieren). The idea a planet destroying spell would be mana free seems completely contrary to everything we have been shown.

A spell within Frieren is constructed to do very specific things, flight being the obvious example where it has established constraints, benefits, and so forth, they work within these limits and rules don't stray outside of it, some spells can take less mana yet be exponentially stronger than a weaker spell that takes more mana, or a spell can do absolutely nothing in terms of offense and cost an exorbitant amount of mana, and the opposite is true too. If we legit want to calc his curse, it'd simply apply to his highly specialized curse that he spent centuries optimizing and working on without very explicit proof otherwise that it actually scales to stuff.

And yet Macht’s primary way of fighting still consists of using his curse to manipulate transmuted gold in concentrated telekinetic bursts to attack his opponents. You can’t argue there is a difference in refinement of spells to account for his ability to transmute entire mountains being irrelevant to his general abilities when he literally uses the same curse to attack people directly.

 

[Epyriel]

Question, why are all the speeds listed as:

Speed: Average Human with at least Supersonic, possibly Hypersonic+ combat speed

Like what is the “Average Human” part supposed to represent? The speed page instructs that unless otherwise specified speed is supposed to refer to combat speed, yet here that is specified as the “Supersonic, possibly Hypersonic” part.

If this is just supposed to be without magic for mages, it should probably be clarified to actually say that, like “Average Human normally, at least Supersonic, possibly Hypersonic+ with magic”.

 

[Zabazab]

Like what is the “Average Human” part supposed to represent?

Awesome indexing

 

[Epyriel]

Awesome indexing

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