Frederica Bernkastel vs Zenkichi Hitoyoshi (NOT AN ACTUAL BATTLE)

[Kami95]

As the title says, THIS IS NOT AN ACTUAL BATTLE, so don't assume spite. I'm posting it here because they're somewhat confronting each other, but since they're not fighting, and I actually just want to hear your opinions regardless of who actually wins, feel free to move this thread to another session.

Bern challenge Zenkichi to a game (for fairness purpose, let's just say they're on the same dimensional level, so we have a 1-B Bernkastel vs a 1-B Zenkichi). The rules are simple: she has to roll a die with 1 quadrillion sides. On a 1 she wins, on any other number she loses.

Bernkastel is the witch of miracles. She can obtain any outcome she wants, no matter how improbable. However, she can't "create a 1 from a sea of 0s", meaning she can't do something that's totally impossible, she can only manipulate existing probabilities. She can basically create miracle, as long as they're possible.

Zenkichi has Devil Style, that nullifies coincidences. In a way, we could say that something that happens 99.9% of times will always happen, while something that happens 0.1% of times will never happen. He can basically negate miracles, making them impossible.

This is a game beetween a witch and a human.

Who would win? *cackle*cackle*

 

[Alakabamm]

Frederica because she exists in a higher dimension

Also, stomp

 

[Kami95]

Frederica because she exists in a higher dimension
Also, stomp

That's why I said they're on the same dimensional level.

 

[Kami95]

It's just Witch of Miracle's power vs Devil Style, only assuming it would actually be possible for those powers to compete with each other (ignoring dimensional barriers), of course it would be a stomp otherwise.

 

[DontTalk]

If probablity is directly manipulated then the most probable outcome is a 1, since it is the only one possible.

It is similar to how an electron might indeterministically jump to a higher energy level, but ones you apply energy to it that is the only outcome that should happen.

In other words miracle creation Ôëá luck. It is a very deterministic process.


Another way to argue is that Bernkastels mircales are archieved through trial and error in certain cases. Resetting the world or going through another timeline until in one the miracle happens.

In that sense if you throw a dice a quadrillion times getting a 1 once would be the result you should get. In other words bernkastel wins through hard work.

 

[Kami95]

If probablity is directly manipulated then the most probable outcome is a 1, since it is the only one possible.
It is similar to how an electron might indeterministically jump to a higher energy level, but ones you apply energy to it that is the only outcome that should happen.

In other words miracle creation Ôëá luck. It is a very deterministic process.

That's exactly what I think. Unless Devil Style automatycally activates when the rules are explained (since that's when the possibility of a "coincidence" is created), negating the "1" before Bern can "pick" it from the sea of possibilities, Zenkichi can't win, and I doubt that's the case.

Maybe he could win with Contradictory Conjuntion, but i never mentioned it, and Devil Style shouldn't work.

 

[Kami95]

Another way to argue is that Bernkastels mircales are archieved through trial and error in certain cases. Resetting the world or going through another timeline until in one the miracle happens.
In that sense if you throw a dice a quadrillion times getting a 1 once would be the result you should get. In other words bernkastel wins through hard work.

In this case, wouldn't Zenkichi win? If he negates the positive possibility (getting the 1) for a quadrillion times, Bern's chance to win would become 0*1 quadrillion, so "trial and error" method shouldn't work.

 

[DontTalk]

Using contradictory conjunction would equal to bernkastel using reality warping to influence the dice. It is basically like winning in chess by moving the pieces on the bord when the opponent isn't looking.

Also red truth should cancel out Contradictory Conjuntion, by establishing the fact that the said things are a paradox as truth.

 

[DontTalk]

In this case, wouldn't Zenkichi win? If he negates the positive possibility (getting the 1) for a quadrillion times, Bern's chance to win would become 0*1 quadrillion, so "trial and error" method shouldn't work.

It would be really unproabable to try a Quintillion times and not throw a 1. That would mean that the devil style made the unlikely result happen and the opposite is what it is supposed to do.

So it is a question of perspective. From Bernkastel perspective devil style should let her win from zenkichis it should not.

Edit: Bernkastel can also do it beatrice style and just multiply the dice by infinity and throw all of them at once xD

Edit 2: Well technically Beatrice style is more throwing one dice one time and being fine with whatever the result is, but whatever <.<

 

[Kami95]

I guess it makes sense.

And I can totally imagine Bern throwing infinite dice at once, witches really like trolling lol

 

[Senkoro]

^Only Lambadelta can counter infinite dice. Apparently Certainty > Miracles

 

[DarkLK]

Takano not missed when she shooting Hanyuu. But script of the world was rewritten due to a miracle. There will be the same.

 

[Xmark12]

This sounds incredibly interesting and unique. Bumping just to see how this'll go. I'll put in my vote and reasoning later, going to sleep for now.

 

[NoobishLOLOL]

Let's assume Devil Style nullifies Bern's magic-based probability twisting abilities. I believe Bern's ability allows her to replay a game an infinite number of times until victory (that was the premise of Higurashi correct?), so statistically speaking, Bern would have won from that aspect. With that gone, it's luck with Zenkichi leading with a 99.99999999%. This game will be purely probabilistic.

Of course, Bern won't just let defeat be her only option. How does Bern win? If a game is not within your favor, then you play a different game; game theory 101. This game will result in a battle of wit, where Bern must convince Zenkichi to play a game that is at least within her favor, that or she uses vague language to take advantage of any loopholes in the game (as Kami95 proposed with the infinite dice); fits the narrative of Umineko doesn't it? Zenkichi would eventually give up trying to negotiate for better terms, at least without any real incentive of winning.