Flash(Barry Allen) acausality

[Oliver_de_jesus]

this should be added to Flash (Post-Flashpoint) maybe to other versions and the comic is THE FLASH (2016) #754

Paradox kills Barry through time

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Bump

 

[Hellbeast]

Seems ok but I'll wait for more arguments

 

[Eficiente]

Sure for that version of him, this should preferably show the page where he's alive, even tho it's stated. It should also be an album in Imgur.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

ok give me a couple of minutes

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

here

There was a problem, for some reason the second image and the ninth change places

I tried several times and it does not change, can someone fix the order for me?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

It looks all-right for Post-Flashpoint/Rebirth Barry. As for Imgur you're the only one who can edit your own albums.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I will try to modify it later, I don't have my computer right now

 

[Greenshifter]

Disagree maybe? This is actually tier 1 immortality (the Speed Force is a tier 1 construct) since he went to the Speed Force upon dying, obviously needs a bigger CRT than this one... Does that include acausality via Speed Force or something? He was also affected by Flashpoint so I don't think he should get acausality unless he is inside the Speed Force or dies and ends up there.

Edit: To clarify, I'm arguing that Barry can't die unless the Speed Force gets destroyed.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I mean, didn't he remember the post-crisis continuity in the middle of flash-point? (before it turned into the new 52s) also remember that Dr. manhattan was manipulating the timeline and stuff.

maybe it's good to be acausality via speed force or something.

in this same comic (one issue later) Reverse-Flash travels in time and prevents Christ from turning into paradox, and at the same time the paradox itself was erased from history instantly

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

well I have tried everything (I used another computer but it didn't work), but imgur does not cooperate and puts the images in different positions

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This seems fine.

 

[AKM sama]

Seems fine to me. Although since @Antvasima is a knowledgeable member, I pinged him.

 

[Antvasima]

This seems fine to me as well.

 

[Greenshifter]

So to be clear if you get erased throughout time, you get acausality no matter how you survived? For instance Professor Paradox in Ben 10 outranged all timelines but one (including his own very likely) getting erased and was able to interact with the one remaining timeline thus he’d get acausality. Although it is stated that he is scared of Ben altering history so that he won’t get his time-powers, thus clearly showing he is not acausal.

Similarly Barry outranged the time paradox here (he ended up in the Speed Force) rather than being unaffected outright.

 

[Antvasima]

Greenshifter seems to make a good point.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

What? Barry didn't end up in the speed force in this comic, even in Flashpoint he initially remembers who the Justice League was and most of the post-crisis timeline.

being erased/killed/altered in the past but still existing with the same memories counts for the first type.

professor paradox already has acausality 1 although what you mention is probably an anti-Feat or something like that.

in the best of cases it would be to give barry "possibly acausality type 1"

 

[Thelastmlg]

Disagree maybe? This is actually tier 1 immortality (the Speed Force is a tier 1 construct) since he went to the Speed Force upon dying, obviously needs a bigger CRT than this one... Does that include acausality via Speed Force or something? He was also affected by Flashpoint so I don't think he should get acausality unless he is inside the Speed Force or dies and ends up there.

Edit: To clarify, I'm arguing that Barry can't die unless the Speed Force gets destroyed.

That would be immortality type 8

 

[Greenshifter]

What? Barry didn't end up in the speed force in this comic, even in Flashpoint he initially remembers who the Justice League was and most of the post-crisis timeline.

being erased/killed/altered in the past but still existing with the same memories counts for the first type.

professor paradox already has acausality 1 although what you mention is probably an anti-Feat or something like that.

in the best of cases it would be to give barry "possibly acausality type 1"

I asked for a scan about what happened next (the next time we see Barry should be in the next comic) to Barry a few weeks ago and it shows him being in the Speed Force and saying he’s in the “hell part” of it. Implying he died and Black Flash took him there (the very reason Wally outracing Black Flash = outracing death and then retrieved Linda in the Speed Force after Black Flash took her there).

I think that would only give limited acausality (could you also give a scan?). Only his memories remain but that doesn’t mean he can’t be negatively affected by time travel.

The professor’s acausality should probably be removed since those are parallax Paradoxes. Granted maybe there’s other stuff that gives him acausality.

If your scan checks out I’m fine with limited acausality type 1 (only memories).

I’d also like to point out that Wally when unmoored should be acausal (he killed himself in the future-past and all) and they make a big deal out of it. Since Barry isn’t unmoored, he also isn’t fully acausal.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

well in this comic barry did not go to the speed force in fact in his first confrontation with paradox (shown in the comic, not chronologically),
Paradox BFR flash to another dimension that is hell compared to the speed force but barry escapes in search of his enemy an travel in timeline, like this until reaching Eobard


let's recap here, paradox uses the cosmic treadmill and travels at the time of the battle against captain cold,
after paradox killed that barry his current version is still alive searching for RF


and then there is the comic that is in the op, for a reason that I do not know imgur is mixing the images, so I have to put separate and short links because otherwise the error happens to me (and even if I edit it it still happens) I hope not It bothers you, if I give you the number of the comics so you can look for it

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

and now I realize that the forum does not allow me to send more than 5 imgur links per message (I sent more than 7 links to imgur and only 5 appear).

I hate my life

 

[Antvasima]

@Greenshifter

What do you think about this?

 

[Greenshifter]

Ok so from what I'm getting Paradox kills people throughout the past (including Barry, a lot) and feeds on the temporal energy to get stronger.

However could it not be that said temporal energy is what is supposed to enforce the time paradox upon Barry? Paradox also states that Barry is almost out of time so it's giving me a lot of CW Barry vibes (who btw should have limited acausality type 1). I also remember that speedsters can run into the timestream when a timeline is about to get altered (as in everything disappears around you), Kid Flash did this during Flash War.

Also people that get erased by a time paradox do end up in this realm (which could be part of the Speed Force) so it's not even Barry's immortality doing anything and these people don't have acausality either .

Thus it seems that speedsters can avoid paradoxes by running into the timestream, potentially stave off paradoxes for him to be able to do so and in Barry's case can remember past events such as in Flashpoint (still need a scan for that).

So due to the nature of Paradoxes' power and his effect on the time stream I don't think this is enough for straight up acausality for Barry (after all every time he gets erased he'd end up in that realm beyond time most likely)

My proposal is the following: Limited acausality type 1 (Can remember past events that were erased and can stave off time paradoxes to allow himself time to run into the timestream to outrun said paradoxes) and I think this would apply to all speedsters, or at least the latter would.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems to make sense.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Ok that is fine

 

[Greenshifter]

Paradox also erased the timestream and everything around Barry, Godspeed and Reverse Flash and it took a while for them to get erased/BFR'd thus they should probably have a limited resistance to EE as well.

Barry's memory manipulation for remembering Wally should be changed to limited acausality btw, assuming this is an ability of Barry and not Wally's doing.

 

[Antvasima]

@Qawsedf234 @Eficiente

What do you think?

 

[Eficiente]

I would like to see how the wording and evidence would be on the profiles first. If the album can't be fixed then a new one can be made.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Barry's memory manipulation for remembering Wally should be changed to limited acausality btw, assuming this is an ability of Barry and not Wally's doing.

Was that Barry’s? I haven’t read the comic in a long time, but it seemed as soon as Barry remembered Wally, Wally came back. But I don’t recall what caused Barry to remember.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

There is also the feat of not being initially affected by the flashpoint (only his memories, his powers are gone)