Fist Of The North Star Revision Part 1 (P&A)

[Silvervigilant]

is anyone willing to explain to me why Raoh is getting upgraded to High 6-A when there's simply no proof he scales to Kaioh or the Ken who got stomped by Kaioh ?

Well @Eseseso already explained very well

Also, Beginning of Series Kenshiro >> the 54.6 teraton Goten Sho done by a Raoh who literally stated he had no energy left after using it all up in one final punch against Kenshiro.

But 30% Raoh is 30% of 100% Raoh, who as stated in Silver's doc is comparable to the Ken who scales to the 849.677 petaton feat, so 30% Raoh is 254.9 petatons (still easily High 6-A).

 

[Jasonsith]

Last time we checked it,

Fist of the North Star Assorted Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

Either

We accepted the end of Case 1 of 1.79738E+18 J or 429583760.6 ton TNT (Mountain level) - accepted by @CloverDragon03
68670.41444 m/s or Mach 200.2052899 (MHS) - accepted by @CloverDragon03

Or

the end of Case 1-1 (1/34.3 s) of 2.49425E+18 J or 596140578 ton TNT (Mountain level+)
80894.70264 m/s or Mach 235.8446141 (MHS)

Fist of the North Star Assorted Feats (2)

vsbattles.fandom.com

The 8.49677E+17 tons of TNT = 849.677 petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent) comes from a “reliable estimate of the absolute potential of Hokuto Ryuken”

Without further to justify, assume the multipliers by @Silvervigilant still holds, we still start from the Jagi feat and use multipliers, then use the Kaioh statement potential as a ceiling for backscaling to the god tiers.

 

[Eseseso]

Last time we checked it,

Fist of the North Star Assorted Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

Either

We accepted the end of Case 1 of 1.79738E+18 J or 429583760.6 ton TNT (Mountain level)
68670.41444 m/s or Mach 200.2052899 (MHS)

We did use the 7-A low-end, until in the General CRT we then rediscussed it and agreed to use the 54.6 teraton version.

Aka, the one found here.

Honestly it's pretty consistent since BoS Ken >> the zero-energy and near-death Raoh that did the feat, and that same BoS Ken stomped people like Jagi who scale to the 1.4 teraton nuke.

Fist of the North Star Assorted Feats (2)

vsbattles.fandom.com

The 8.49677E+17 tons of TNT = 849.677 petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent) comes from a “reliable estimate of the absolute potential of Hokuto Ryuken”

True

 

[Jasonsith]

I mean, the calculation is wrong - the calculation is lying there just to show why such end should be rejected. i.e.

"in the General CRT we then rediscussed it (the goten sho feat by a dying Raoh) and agreed to use the 54.6 teraton version. Honestly it's pretty consistent since BoS Ken >> the zero-energy and near-death Raoh that did the feat, and that same BoS Ken stomped people like Jagi who scale to the 1.4 teraton nuke."
is not an excuse for accepting the 54.6 teraton TNT version instead.

This yield should not be entertained because it shows a high value that is comparable to some higher value achieved in another scenario.

The logic in using the 54.6 teraton version is all wrong. That cloud should never be 22658 m thick.

Even if we somehow agree that Rah and Kenshiro is far stronger than Jagi, we should not tweak an end and say this is "better". We should use another means. At worst, the "far higher" term is there for uses like this case.

Therefore that 54.6 teraton TNT version is for display and decoration only to show how unrealistic that yield is and therefore should not be included in the first place if that would let you misunderstand that the end is an acceptable one. Sorry I noticed that too late and sorry for the inconvenience caused all along.

Again, very sorry for overlooking it for a couple of months. But that is so important I need to raise that out. Foir that calculation made my me, only the case 1 and case extra are meant for evaluation.
Reason? Rain has stopped and the cloud thickness should be far thinner, to likely what Case 1 1/220 s end (2160.546141 m cloud thickness) (24524818733 ton TNT) and Case Extra 1/220 s end (3999.999603 m cloud thickness) (5.34031E+11 ton TNT) is showcasing.

---

Also, do we honestly now have faster than light for fists claimed to have no shadows?

This almost is identical to "moving so fast it has no shadow". However,

Fist of the North Star Assorted Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

At absolute wank we can still have
Kasumi's speed to jump from ground up (200 m lightning) = 8420770.642 m/s = Mach 24550.35173 = 0.028088898 c (Sub-relativistic)

Again, are we accepting this now?

---

I am sleeping now, so until I woke up like 6 - 8 hours later let us discuss how this would change the scaling chain and the scaling anchors.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, Jasonsith.

What do you think should be done here?

 

[Jasonsith]

(Just woke up for a toilet)

First, confirm if there are any more feats yet unevaluated.
Otherwise, the scaling chain is still used except multiplier being used from Jagi feat (applicable to all characters except god tiers).
God tiers scale from Hokuto Ryuken potential statement but we need to discuss whether this scales to BOS Kaioh or EOS Kaioh. Also, at 30% or 100% Kaioh.

Extra: determine if the lightning at Kasumi Kenshiro dating Liu Zongwu is a reversed leader or return stroke. This may upgrade or keep speed level.

 

[Eseseso]

I mean, the calculation is wrong - the calculation is lying there just to show why such end should be rejected. i.e.


This yield should not be entertained because it shows a high value that is comparable to some higher value achieved in another scenario.

The logic in using the 54.6 teraton version is all wrong. That cloud should never be 22658 m thick.

Even if we somehow agree that Rah and Kenshiro is far stronger than Jagi, we should not tweak an end and say this is "better". We should use another means. At worst, the "far higher" term is there for uses like this case.

Therefore that 54.6 teraton TNT version is for display and decoration only to show how unrealistic that yield is and therefore should not be included in the first place if that would let you misunderstand that the end is an acceptable one. Sorry I noticed that too late and sorry for the inconvenience caused all along.

Again, very sorry for overlooking it for a couple of months. But that is so important I need to raise that out. Foir that calculation made my me, only the case 1 and case extra are meant for evaluation.
Reason? Rain has stopped and the cloud thickness should be far thinner, to likely what Case 1 1/220 s end (2160.546141 m cloud thickness) (24524818733 ton TNT) and Case Extra 1/220 s end (3999.999603 m cloud thickness) (5.34031E+11 ton TNT) is showcasing.

---

I mean, Nimbostratus clouds have thickness between 2000m and 8000m, so if you want you can do a high-end for 8000m thickness.

As for the 54.6 teraton result, I mainly accepted it since a mod said that the 54.6 teraton calc was fine.

If you weren't even going to accept the higher cloud thickness levels, why did you calc for them?

However, we could look at this potential calc for the Goten Sho with a 2000m cloud thickness (and its high-end with an 8000m cloud thickness). We can use the same math but with your timeframe(s) for the Goten Sho.

I even calced the given Low End and High End of the Goten Sho calc in the link above but with speeds of 1/34.3 seconds and 1/220 seconds, and these are the results:

2000m thickness, 1/34.3 seconds: About 11.03 teratons (Country Level) for just the hole, 81.437 teratons (Country Level+) including the split, putting 100% BoS Ken at 271.46 teratons (Large Country Level)

2000m thickness, 1/220 seconds: About 453.813 teratons (Just above baseline Large Country Level+) for just the hole, 3.35 petatons (Continent Level+) including the split, putting 100% BoS Ken at 11.167 petatons (Multi-Continent Level)

8000m thickness, 1/34.3 seconds: About 509 teratons (Large Country Level+) for just the hole, 3.75767 petatons (Continent Level+) including the split, putting 100% BoS Ken at 12.52556 petatons (Multi-Continent level)

8000m thickness, 1/220 seconds: About 20.939775 petatons (Multi-Continent Level) for just the hole, 154.588 petatons (Still Multi-Continent Level) including the split, putting 100% BoS Ken at 515.293 petatons (Still Multi-Continent level)

So if either the 2000m cloud thickness with 1/220 second timeframe (3.35 petatons) and/or the 8000m cloud thickness with 1/34.3 second timeframe (3.7577 petatons) are accepted, then BoS Ken would likely upscale to Baseline High 6-A (4.435 petatons) due to being leagues above the zero-energy and near-death Raoh that did this feat, and neither multiplier for upscaling to Baseline High 6-A is that high (Only 1.324x for the smaller one and 1.18x for the higher one). Thus, for both cases, 100% BoS Ken would actually be 14.783 petatons (Multi-Continent Level)

If the highest one is somehow accepted (even though I doubt it)...It'll more or less replace the Kaioh statement as the main source of scaling.

Also, do we honestly now have faster than light for fists claimed to have no shadows?

This almost is identical to "moving so fast it has no shadow". However,

Fist of the North Star Assorted Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

At absolute wank we can still have
Kasumi's speed to jump from ground up (200 m lightning) = 8420770.642 m/s = Mach 24550.35173 = 0.028088898 c (Sub-relativistic)

Again, are we accepting this now?

---

I am sleeping now, so until I woke up like 6 - 8 hours later let us discuss how this would change the scaling chain and the scaling anchors.

I don't know enough about the entire speed thing, but IIRC Garuda was openly shown/stated to attack at lightspeed, and Kenshiro dodged an attack of actual light from Falco IIRC.

(Just woke up for a toilet)

First, confirm if there are any more feats yet unevaluated.
Otherwise, the scaling chain is still used except multiplier being used from Jagi feat (applicable to all characters except god tiers).
God tiers scale from Hokuto Ryuken potential statement but we need to discuss whether this scales to BOS Kaioh or EOS Kaioh. Also, at 30% or 100% Kaioh.

You'd need to ask @Twellas .

 

[Silvervigilant]

We accepted the end of Case 1 of 1.79738E+18 J or 429583760.6 ton TNT (Mountain level)

The mountain level one assumes that the distance from Raoh ground to bottom is only 200m an even stormclouds (which are a bit closer to the ground than normal ones 610 meters in the air) are around 460 from my recollection. So is too low, not mention that the cloud that Raoh punched was a Nimbostratus cloud who almost invariably occurs at altitudes between 2 km and 4 km.

Also, do we honestly now have faster than light for fists claimed to have no shadows?

This almost is identical to "moving so fast it has no shadow". However,

Seriously? you want to downgrade that too?

In the previous thread, Both me and @Twellas agreed on FTL HNK, not only us but @Antvasima, @Eseseso, @FoxySonicMaster108, @ShrekAnakin, @NotoriouSoda all agreed due to the multitude of feats and statements that was presented. Here's a resume

1. A Nanto user called Garuda states that he can fight at the speed of light . Also is the descripition of his fighting style. Garuda in Legends Revive, it's again confirmed that he punches at the speed of light not once, but twice. is worth mentioning that Hokuto Legends Revive is supervised by Hara himself, and Hara said that is very faithful to the manga.
2. Han says that his fist doesn't have a shadow. The scans back this up by showing no shadow of their fists when Han fights Kenshiro. [3][4]. As you see no shadow, And The idea of this just being an art oversight is absolutely inconceivable once you look at Hara as a person, he personally supervises every single piece of media that is FotNS related to judge the aesthetic, even the mobile games, and is a notorious pain in the ass when it comes to graphical fidelity for FotNS media. On top of this, I think we can all agree that an artist who draws like this is not the type of guy to forget about drawing shadows, especially when he had already drawn it under both Han and Kenshiro's bodies. The same thing happens with Liu and Kasumi while they fight using the Keikojutsu, they are completely invisible to people who don't have feats of seeing them beforehand and they project no shadow whastoever (you can see that while the Tai Hu stones they are right next to project a long shadow, they don't).
3. Zhang Taiyan from Souten no Ken also does a shadowless attack. In Hokuto Legends Revive it's confirmed that his kicks don't leave a shadow due to speed.
4. Gento Koken light attacks. In the Falco vs Ken fight, Ken clearly reacts to Falco's light, which is stated on panel to be light and behaves like it.

So there are alot of things to backup that notion, but i think that shouldn't be at issue in this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody who are helping out here.

 

[Jasonsith]

Raoh Cloud punching feat redux by Eseseso

The assumptions on the cloud thickness and distance from ground level is unrealistic.
This has to be rejected sadly.

If you really insisted on a 4000 m cloud thickness...

Fist of the North Star Assorted Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

I have calculated it and it yields 3.91381E+19 J or 9,354,241,696 gigatons TNT with 127196.7183 m/s (Mach 370.8359135) as a lowball
or
5.43127E+19 J or 12,981,037,847 gigatons TNT with 149839.5021 m/s (Mach 436.8498603) as a highball
or
2.23439E+21 J or 5.34031E+11 gigatons TNT with 961069.6927 m/s (Mach 2801.952457) as a higher highball

If you weren't even going to accept the higher cloud thickness levels, why did you calc for them?

If you believe this is confusing anyone, fine. I am deleting them. At least crossing them out.
Sorry. If making more calculations are meaning they have to be accepted, okay fine I will cross out any of them which are for demonstration purpose in the future.

No shadow fist

Names names names. Again, we have had fictional speedsters not FTL but still runs and "does not cast a shadow" or "appears in a blurred image". These wordings are FTE at best. Of course a multiplier can be added on that if this is viewed from someone with better speed perceptions.

Gento Koken light attacks. In the Falco vs Ken fight, Ken clearly reacts to Falco's light, which is stated on panel to be light and behaves like it.

First, do we have statements that the ki projectiles travel at lightspeed? Rather than that they emit light? Like, stun grenades emit flash light and they are not considered lightspeed weapons. Do those ki reflect at mirrors, refract through water or glass blocks, melt instead of expode on contact... those light property stuff? Other than glowing?

Intercepting a ki attack from a character is nothing if the ki attack speed cannot be ascertained.

 

[Silvervigilant]

Names names names. Again, we have had fictional speedsters not FTL but still runs and "does not cast a shadow" or "appears in a blurred image". These wordings are FTE at best. Of course a multiplier can be added on that if this is viewed from someone with better speed perceptions.

The WOG cleary states that Zhang Taiyan's attacks don't cast shadow due his speed, if an object blocks light, that creates a shadow, if something moves faster than what light could detect, it's faster enough to dodge light from being blocked.

First, do we have statements that the ki projectiles travel at lightspeed? Rather than that they emit light? Like, stun grenades emit flash light and they are not considered lightspeed weapons. Do those ki reflect at mirrors, refract through water or glass blocks, melt instead of expode on contact... those light property stuff? Other than glowing?

Intercepting a ki attack from a character is nothing if the ki attack speed cannot be ascertained.

The light in Gento is indeed light and not Ki (know as Touki in HNK's world) sure they use ki in some of their attacks, but they also control light, this becomes even clearer when you notice the fact that Bat is the one who notice a light coming from Falco's hand, but the thing is that Bat already saw how Touki attacks looks like, so if Falco's attack in that occasion was Touki based, Bat would have no reason to mistake that for light.

And even if you don't believe in any of that, we still have tons of statements consistently saying that Garuda can fight at light speeds.

Also, I reiterate what I said about this not being the right place to discuss the speed of the characters, since this thread was made only to correct the scaling of the verse.

 

[Eseseso]

@Jasonsith what about the low-end and high-end of the Goten Sho calc on Deviantart that I linked to?

I mean, the cloud heights are just the minimum and maximum of a normal nimbostratus, just the distance between Raoh and the clouds was changed (and he calced for Raoh's distance in both scenarios).

I honestly just put in the 2 timeframes you made into both the low-end and high-end of the calc.

 

[Eseseso]

The assumptions on the cloud thickness and distance from ground level is unrealistic.
This has to be rejected sadly.

If you really insisted on a 4000 m cloud thickness...

Fist of the North Star Assorted Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

I have calculated it and it yields 3.91381E+19 J or 9,354,241,696 tons TNT with 127196.7183 m/s (Mach 370.8359135) as a lowball
or
5.43127E+19 J or 12,981,037,847 tons TNT with 149839.5021 m/s (Mach 436.8498603) as a highball
or
2.23439E+21 J or 5.34031E+11 tons TNT with 961069.6927 m/s (Mach 2801.952457) as a higher highball


If you believe this is confusing anyone, fine. I am deleting them. At least crossing them out.
Sorry. If making more calculations are meaning they have to be accepted, okay fine I will cross out any of them which are for demonstration purpose in the future.

Also, Nimbostratus clouds go up to 8000m in thickness, so would it be possible for you to calc for that?

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

if you got problems for the current fist of the north star speed ratings make a different crt, even though garuda who is sub shin level is explicitly stated to be lightspeed and he got horribly blitzed by unmotivated Juza.

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Secondly, why are you people trying so hard to downplay Raoh's goten sho when the clouds are very unlikely to be just 200 meters high, you can just watch the anime/oav to see those clouds are nimbostratus. 2000 meters, 4000 meters and 8000 meters should be the ways to go here, no lower.

 

[Eseseso]

And I don't see why the DA calc, which uses reasonable cloud thickness, is wrong, considering that he calced in both versions for Raoh's distance from the clouds.

 

[Eseseso]

The 8.49677E+17 tons of TNT = 849.677 petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent) comes from a “reliable estimate of the absolute potential of Hokuto Ryuken”

Without further to justify, assume the multipliers by @Silvervigilant still holds, we still start from the Jagi feat and use multipliers, then use the Kaioh statement potential as a ceiling for backscaling to the god tiers.

@Twellas explains here why 30% Ken scales to the high 6-A statement

 

[Jasonsith]

@Twellas explains here why 30% Ken scales to the high 6-A statement

So Kaioh has two key phases also?
So that 849.677 petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent) comes from a “reliable estimate of the absolute potential of Hokuto Ryuken” is happening before Kaioh somehow gets stronger in his final battle

And... is someone saying that Tenryu Kokyu Hou is not even a multiplier?

Hokuto Shinken

Hokuto Shin Ken (北斗（ほくと）神（しん）拳（けん） Big Dipper God Fist) is an ancient Chinese martial art, dating back 1,800 years from China. It is notably the martial art that defines the protagonists of the Hokuto no Ken series, who are its heir to the school's succession. "Hokuto Shin Ken" is named after...

hokuto.fandom.com

Description:
While a normal fighter uses 30% of his natural abilities, a Hokuto Shinken successor knows how to utilize his remaining 70% using Tenryū Kokyū Hō (転龍呼吸法 Art of Dragon's Breathing).

This is more like "Hokuto Shinken successor" is far more effective in using ki than normal fighter. Not like any super forms to tap into.
This may change the landscape of the scaling chain entirely.

 

[Silvervigilant]

So that 849.677 petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent) comes from a “reliable estimate of the absolute potential of Hokuto Ryuken” is happening before Kaioh somehow gets stronger in his final battle

The statement is not about "the absolute potential of Hokuto Ryuken" the statement is specifically about Kaioh at that point of the story, and that was before he was amped during his final fight with Ken. Post-Toki’s Bind| Post-Shu's call| Post-Timeskip| Pre-Awakening| Pre-Seals 30% Ken scales to this feat. because he outright tanked a blast from Kaioh's Matouki, which was, in turn, stated to be able to perform the Multi-Continental feat.

And... is someone saying that Tenryu Kokyu Hou is not even a multiplier?

What? no, TKH is a clear multiplier this is not even controversial here on this wiki

This is more like "Hokuto Shinken successor" is far more effective in using ki than normal fighter. Not like any super forms to tap into.
This may change the landscape of the scaling chain entirely.

I think there's misconception here, is not that Hokuto fighter goes around using Tenryu Kokyu Ho, Kenshiro cleary says that Tenryu Kokyu Ho allows him to use 100% of his power, so everytime Ken is not using Tenryu Kokyu Ho, he's fighting with only 30% of his power.

 

[Jasonsith]

Normal man can only use 30% of such power, but I can tap into the full 100%

He is comparing his prowess with that of a normal human. And Hokuto Shinken users being only 3.33 X stronger than normal man is clearly underselling (when Jagi and Toki can survive a nuclear bomb strike).
Not that "my base form is at one level of power but I have super saiyan 1 which strengthens myself to 4 times with speed increased to twice as fast".

Oh. It turns out we are clearing some long misunderstood ideas.

---

I wish I could talk about it more in fine details but I need to sleep now and my upcoming days and even weeks IRL can be busy (and while I can still squeeze discrete time to chat I cannot go into serious "discussions" or "debates").

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions so far here?

 

[Eseseso]

He is comparing his prowess with that of a normal human. And Hokuto Shinken users being only 3.33 X stronger than normal man is clearly underselling (when Jagi and Toki can survive a nuclear bomb strike).
Not that "my base form is at one level of power but I have super saiyan 1 which strengthens myself to 4 times with speed increased to twice as fast".

Oh. It turns out we are clearing some long misunderstood ideas.

---

I wish I could talk about it more in fine details but I need to sleep now and my upcoming days and even weeks IRL can be busy (and while I can still squeeze discrete time to chat I cannot go into serious "discussions" or "debates").

Even though we need to discuss A LOT and we clearly disagree on things in this thread, best of luck with your busy schedule.

 

[Silvervigilant]

He is comparing his prowess with that of a normal human. And Hokuto Shinken users being only 3.33 X stronger than normal man is clearly underselling (when Jagi and Toki can survive a nuclear bomb strike).
Not that "my base form is at one level of power but I have super saiyan 1 which strengthens myself to 4 times with speed increased to twice as fast".

I disagree not only because as yourself pointed out Hokuto Shinken users being only 3.33 X stronger than normal man is clearly underselling, but also because the fact that if Hokuto Shinken users already used 100% of their power by nature, there wouldn't exist a technique for it, it would be just them being them lol, Also everytime we see Kenshiro using TKH, his shirt is ripped and there's a increase in his muscle mass (something that is commonly associated with a power increase in Manga/Animes),and Ken generaly becomes stronger and faster than his opponent after he uses it.

In his fight against Devil Rebirth (the fight where he talks about TKH) Kenshiro powers up, his shirt is ripped and there's a increase in his muscle mass, and right after that he explains the technique he just used (which means that he has to USE TKH, and not like, go around 24/7 with this technique "equiped") and here we have proof that this technique increase in his muscle mass and rips his shirt as a side effect.

Now for the power up, In the same fight, Kenshiro (before using TKH) got seriously injuried because Devil with his superhuman strength throwed him against a rock, and Devil was able to easily block Ken's jumping kick, his speed impressed Ken himself. After Ken used TKH, He tanked Devil's ultimate technique and came back unfazed, he also was fast enough to dissapear from Devil's sight, and attack him 7 times before he could even react. That's cleary a power increase.

Another example is his fight against Amiba, Kenshiro (before using TKH) was comparable to Amiba in both power and speed (note that Amiba easily blocked Kenshiro flurry of punches) After Ken used TKH, his kicks where fast enough to draw blood of Amiba's cheeks and completely destroy his shirt (note that Amiba said that Ken's fist became shaper right after being attacked by Kenshiro using TKH) Amiba himself barely "dodged" the attacks, i say "dodged" because is quite probably that Kenshiro only hit his shirt just to see if he had the scar on his back to confirm he was the real Toki. Once Kenshiro really decided to kill Amiba, he was able casually slap Amiba before the same could react, his punches where too fast to Amiba even see, and Ken was able to completely dissapear from Amiba's sight (you can also see that Ken had a boost in strength as well, due to how easily he was able pierce through Amiba's hands using only his fingers, Ken also says that Amiba would receive the full force of his fist, again implying that he's at full strength after using TKH) This is yet another example of TKH's power increase.

There's also Kenshiro and Raoh's first fight, where the Tenryu Kokyu Ho (along with Toki's Bind power boost) helped Kenshiro to fight on equal terms against Raoh, where previously Ken didn't have even 1% chance to best him, and 30% Raoh could easily punch through 30% Ken's body. More details here.

I think it's pretty clear that the Tenryu Kokyu Ho grants the user a increase in power, Hopefully this clarifies things up for you

I wish I could talk about it more in fine details but I need to sleep now and my upcoming days and even weeks IRL can be busy (and while I can still squeeze discrete time to chat I cannot go into serious "discussions" or "debates").

No problem, take care.

 

[Eseseso]

I still stand by the DA calcs but with Jasonsith's timeframes being fine to use, though.

 

[Jasonsith]

I disagree not only because as yourself pointed out Hokuto Shinken users being only 3.33 X stronger than normal man is clearly underselling, but also because the fact that if Hokuto Shinken users already used 100% of their power by nature, there wouldn't exist a technique for it, it would be just them being them lol, Also everytime we see Kenshiro using TKH, his shirt is ripped and there's a increase in his muscle mass (something that is commonly associated with a power increase in Manga/Animes),and Ken generaly becomes stronger and faster than his opponent after he uses it.

In his fight against Devil Rebirth (the fight where he talks about TKH) Kenshiro powers up, his shirt is ripped and there's a increase in his muscle mass, and right after that he explains the technique he just used (which means that he has to USE TKH, and not like, go around 24/7 with this technique "equiped") and here we have proof that this technique increase in his muscle mass and rips his shirt as a side effect.

Now for the power up, In the same fight, Kenshiro (before using TKH) got seriously injuried because Devil with his superhuman strength throwed him against a rock, and Devil was able to easily block Ken's jumping kick, his speed impressed Ken himself. After Ken used TKH, He tanked Devil's ultimate technique and came back unfazed, he also was fast enough to dissapear from Devil's sight, and attack him 7 times before he could even react. That's cleary a power increase.

Another example is his fight against Amiba, Kenshiro (before using TKH) was comparable to Amiba in both power and speed (note that Amiba easily blocked Kenshiro flurry of punches) After Ken used TKH, his kicks where fast enough to draw blood of Amiba's cheeks and completely destroy his shirt (note that Amiba said that Ken's fist became shaper right after being attacked by Kenshiro using TKH) Amiba himself barely "dodged" the attacks, i say "dodged" because is quite probably that Kenshiro only hit his shirt just to see if he had the scar on his back to confirm he was the real Toki. Once Kenshiro really decided to kill Amiba, he was able casually slap Amiba before the same could react, his punches where too fast to Amiba even see, and Ken was able to completely dissapear from Amiba's sight (you can also see that Ken had a boost in strength as well, due to how easily he was able pierce through Amiba's hands using only his fingers, Ken also says that Amiba would receive the full force of his fist, again implying that he's at full strength after using TKH) This is yet another example of TKH's power increase.

There's also Kenshiro and Raoh's first fight, where the Tenryu Kokyu Ho (along with Toki's Bind power boost) helped Kenshiro to fight on equal terms against Raoh, where previously Ken didn't have even 1% chance to best him, and 30% Raoh could easily punch through 30% Ken's body. More details here.

I think it's pretty clear that the Tenryu Kokyu Ho grants the user a increase in power, Hopefully this clarifies things up for you


No problem, take care.

* Tenryu Kokyu Hou (TKH)

So we do know that Tenryu Kokyu Hou has an enhancement in physical attributes. And is one statistics enhancement move that needs to be performed during or right before the fight rather than some "learn once always stays" upgrade.
However, whether it is a 3.33 times multiplier or just an unknown amount is still unsure. Remember: we have has 7.5 times to be called AP stomp and speed blitz. If Kenshiro can blitz enemies with TKH, then the multiplier may not even be 3.33. As a remedy, we have had ""higher" with TKH" to contemplate with this situation.

* Raoh Gotten Sho (dying) feat
I may give one another re-calculation on the Raoh Gotten Sho (dying) feat some time later.
Meanwhile, you are encouraged to find other feats (feats other than the Gotten Sho) that can properly show how strong these HNK characters are.

For example... How is Kasumi's storm movement feat going? Does that get approved at what yield?

 

[Eseseso]

* Raoh Gotten Sho (dying) feat
I may give one another re-calculation on the Raoh Gotten Sho (dying) feat some time later.
Meanwhile, you are encouraged to find other feats (feats other than the Gotten Sho) that can properly show how strong these HNK characters are.

While I still stand by my earlier post, I and the others will try to find some other feats.

For example... How is Kasumi's storm movement feat going? Does that get approved at what yield?

I thought you accepted the High 6-C value for that already?

 

[Jasonsith]

While I still stand by my earlier post, I and the others will try to find some other feats.

Thanks for helping in finding some other feats.
And I will give one another re-calculation on the Raoh Gotten Sho (dying) feat some time later.

I thought you accepted the High 6-C value for that already?

Well there are multiple calcs for that.
Sure I remember I approved one result of calculation.
Perhaps I have missed another blog where a new or old calculation with a higher yield was accepted.

 

[Eseseso]

Actually...

So the guy on DA who made a calc for Jagi's nukes as well as one for Soryu Tenra remade them and, well...

The new Jagi nuke calc he used basically uses the fact that those nukes vaporized the Earth's oceans (although he used a slightly lower value for vaporizing the oceans), and then used the area of one nuke's explosion compared to the area of the Earth to calculate the number of nukes needed to vaporize all the oceans (1030 nukes), and got a value of...over 700 teratons.

Yeah.

And he actually used a lower value calc than what we use for vaporizing the oceans, so the true value is actually around 825 teratons.

I would call bull, but it honestly makes sense considering how we already scale Kaioh to the nukes vaporizing the oceans already, so context wise the power of one nuke scaling to the vaporization of the oceans is valid. Power-wise consistency is an entirely different story.

As for the Soryu Tenra calc remake, the low-end of 6.83 teratons isn't too much higher from what he got in his earlier Soryu Tenra calc (5.24 teratons), but the high-end is an impressive High 6-B+ at 636.53 teratons, so just short of 6-A baseline (and considering how casually Kasumi did this, it could upscale to baseline 6-a [760 teratons] since the multiplier is only about 1.19x. And keep in mind this was BoS Kasumi so he'd probably scale to BoS Ken.

So yeah, if either the first calc or the high-end of the 2nd calc are accepted, BoS Ken would get a HUGE buff.

 

[Eseseso]

Also, During his battle with Falco Kenshiro punched Falco so hard that the sky split in half

And apparently (although the video for this on youtube was removed), during the final battle against Kaioh, Kenshiro's finishing punch to Kaioh split all the clouds in the sky.

 

[Jasonsith]

Well... blindly chasing for higher numbers from a feat is not what a calc group member should do - rather, a calc that more accurately reflects what the scene happened is.

Nevertheless, i have noticed some calcs. Quote the chapters and I will check it out later.

 

[Eseseso]

Well... blindly chasing for higher numbers from a feat is not what a calc group member should do - rather, a calc that more accurately reflects what the scene happened is.

I wouldn't say I was blindly chasing, I was just checking to see if he had made any other calcs for FotNS and that's what I found.

Nevertheless, i have noticed some calcs. Quote the chapters and I will check it out later.

I don't know the chapter for the falco feat. I'll try to find it.

 

[Eseseso]

@Jasonsith

Nevermind on the Falco cloud split, you already did that one in your first assorted feats blog. Even the highest result was only 26.77 teratons.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody who are helping out here.

Are you making any progress?

 

[Eseseso]

Thank you to everybody who are helping out here.

Are you making any progress?

Well, IMO we should still look at both the Goten Sho calc on deviantart (but with Jasonsith's timeframes), as well as the new Jagi nuke calc and Soryu Tenra calc from DA that I just described.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Eseseso]

Okay.

In regards to the nuke, I think that, since these nukes were the ones that vaporized the seas (which is already being used for Kaioh scaling on this site), it is probably fine to use the DA nuke calc which is based off the same vaporization stuff, although the DA calc used a slightly lower value than we do for vaporizing all the world's oceans, so 1/1030th of our ocean vaporization calc comes out to 824.929257 teratons of TNT (aka, slightly above Baseline 6-A).

The Soryu Tenra calc looks ok, although last time it was not approved by a few people although I don't know why.

If the low end is accepted then it's a slight bump above Jagi's calc by about 4-5 times, but if the high end of 636.5 teratons is accepted then that's a BIG bump.

As for the Goten Sho calc on DA but with Jasonsith's timeframes (for both low-end and high-end), there are 4 different end versions that could be used (although the low-end size with high-end speed and high-end size with low-end speed aren't too different in power).

If any of them are accepted they scale above the current Goten Sho calc (as even the lowest one is 81 teratons when including the split), but if the highest one is (somehow) accepted... it more or less replaces the Hokuto Ryuken statement as the main form of scaling. Not even joking.

Because 30% BoS Ken will scale far above the 515.293 petaton value, and considering that his EoS 100% is (10/3)^6 times above his BoS 30% due to getting 6 multipliers of 10^3 throughout the series according to Vigilant's scaling doc, that puts EoS Ken at 706.849108 EXATONS. That's Low 5-B! No wonder they said in-story that the best Hokuto Shinken users risk destroying the world!

I think that, considering he uses the minimum and maximum sizes of nimbostratus clouds as his respective low and high ends for the calc, it is fine since it removes Jasonsith's main concern about the cloud thickness.

 

[Silvervigilant]

* Tenryu Kokyu Hou (TKH)

So we do know that Tenryu Kokyu Hou has an enhancement in physical attributes. And is one statistics enhancement move that needs to be performed during or right before the fight rather than some "learn once always stays" upgrade.

Yep

However, whether it is a 3.33 times multiplier or just an unknown amount is still unsure. Remember: we have has 7.5 times to be called AP stomp and speed blitz. If Kenshiro can blitz enemies with TKH, then the multiplier may not even be 3.33. As a remedy, we have had ""higher" with TKH" to contemplate with this situation.

Well while here, it has to be 7.5 times to be called AP stomp and speed blitz. i don't think that the Tenryu Kokyu Ho makes the user 7.5 times more powerful, i mean a 80's series had no way of knowing that one had to be 7.5 times more powerful to blitz the someone, Kenshiro accurately states that TKH makes someone use the rest 70% of his power (aka getting 3.33x stronger) , there's no problem in taking his words literally, him speed blitzing a foe just serves to show that he gets more powerful after using TKH

Raoh Gotten Sho (dying) feat
I may give one another re-calculation on the Raoh Gotten Sho (dying) feat some time later.
Meanwhile, you are encouraged to find other feats (feats other than the Gotten Sho) that can properly show how strong these HNK characters are.

I don't know if this helps but i found this, this is called Hokuto no Ken- Legend of Heroes, it's a CG 3D short which covers Kenshiro and Raoh's final battle. different from the anime this one was writen by both Buronson and Tetsuo Hara (the manga original creators) which gives more credibility, and we also can see the feat from a different perspective, however i'm not saying that we should give this priority over the manga, since the manga is the primary canon.

 

[Silvervigilant]

And apparently (although the video for this on youtube was removed), during the final battle against Kaioh, Kenshiro's finishing punch to Kaioh split all the clouds in the sky.

I think someone already made a calc about a similar (if not the same) feat in the manga a while ago

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Jasonsith]

Also, During his battle with Falco Kenshiro punched Falco so hard that the sky split in half

And apparently (although the video for this on youtube was removed), during the final battle against Kaioh, Kenshiro's finishing punch to Kaioh split all the clouds in the sky.

I remember I have calculated this.

Fist of the North Star Assorted Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

17,736,535,060 tons of TNT to 26,774,037,681,229 tons of TNT pal.

I think someone already made a calc about a similar (if not the same) feat in the manga a while ago

1. I hate the fact that this blog does not have a tab other than "blog posts".
2. Funny enough the blogger sort of downplay the punching time but wank the cloud height and thickness.

Needs rework and had some rework value.

Yep

Well while here, it has to be 7.5 times to be called AP stomp and speed blitz. i don't think that the Tenryu Kokyu Ho, i don't it it makes the user 7.5 times more powerful, i mean a 80's series had no way of knowing that one had to be 7.5 times more powerful to blitz the someone, Kenshiro accurately states that TKH makes someone use the 70% of his power (aka 3.33x stronger) , there's no problem in taking his words literally, him speed blitzing a foe is just serves to show that he gets more powerful after using TKH


I don't know if this helps but i found this, this is called Hokuto no Ken- Legend of Heroes, it's a CG 3D short which covers Kenshiro and Raoh's final battle. different from the anime this one was writen by both Buronson and Tetsuo Hara (the manga original creators) which gives more credibility, and we also can see the feat from a different perspective, however i'm not saying that we should give this priority over the manga, since the manga is the primary canon.

Thank you. I will have a look once I get some quality time.