Fist of the North Star General CRT

[Twellas]

so High 6-B HnK, that's incredible.

Might be 6-A, who knows, we'll see

 

[Jasonsith]

I finished the movie crater feat calculation.

Adding more yield ends using different timeframes.

Also, I am afraid the Raoh-Kenshiro jumping feat (for both manga and movie) may not yield anything impressive.

However, I noticed that, in the movie, some pawns survived with his head getting smacked by a falling Yuria crucified on a cross. THIS may get something interesting.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks again for all of your help. Tell us here when you are done.

 

[Jasonsith]

Okay. Thanks again for all of your help. Tell us here when you are done.

Almost all done except for the grunt surviving a falling cross feat.

 

[Twellas]

btw, the "jump" feat is not a jump, they are levitating using Touki

 

[Jasonsith]

btw, the "jump" feat is not a jump, they are levitating using Touki

But the effects do look like a jump as if they do not slowly fly up but more like jump up then trails of touki flow along. They did levitate in the air and traded more blows immediately after staying at a height.

 

[Twellas]

right before this, they use Touki to move air and create shockwaves, that's why you see that trail of air below them, they used Touki (or the air moved by the touki) to quickly rise up, it's effectively the same as a jump calculation-speaking, but it should be pointed out

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks again for all of your help.

 

[Silvervigilant]

What about Raoh spliting cloud feat ?

 

[Jasonsith]

What about Raoh spliting cloud feat ?

Every calculation except the grunt surviving a cross feat is being evaluated by another calculation group staff. I will inform you once any feat gets approved.

 

[Twellas]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

Jason is very reliable. Please try to be patient.

 

[Twellas]

yeah yeah, I'm bumping just so people see the post, someone might join with some interesting input

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. It seems better if I send notifications to some knowledgeable members after Jason has finished though.

 

[Twellas]

fine by me

 

[Jasonsith]

Got the final feat calc.

---

@Damage3245 @DMUA @DemonGodMitchAubin @Therefir @Ugarik @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

Anyone else I miss? Feel free to Start a new conversation with me. (I know Ugarik is doing this though)

 

[Antvasima]

@Damage3245 @DMUA @DemonGodMitchAubin @Therefir @Ugarik @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Mr._Bambu @Wokistan

We would appreciate if any of you could evaluate the calculations in the following blog post please:

Fist of the North Star Assorted Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Twellas]

btw, I just don't agree with the idea that "except for Hokuto Hyakuretsu Ken, all other moves which are named like "n-hand strike" (where n is whatever the number is stated) only refers to a qualitative perception that the user attacks in a rapid frequency", there are just too many cases of the numbers being literal for me to think so (I just remembered Kasumi's fight with Feiyan, who has a blocking attack where he throws 1000 palm strikes and Kasumi beats it by throwing 1001 strikes), and the other moves for which we don't have 100% certainty that the number is accurate aren't shown or implied to be any different from the undeniably accurate ones.

That being said, the Van der Kohl feat is an outlier, but it basically doesn't scale to anyone but the god tiers, given how Kohl is equal if not stronger than 100% post-seals Kasumi, to whom only 100% post-seals Kenshiro scales (No, Kaioh doesn't scale to 100% post-seals Ken, Kaioh was amped out of his mind by the swamp during the fight, was using the environment to hinder Ken and used techniques that hard-countered Hokuto Shinken; on top of that Ken was just taking all the punches and barely trying).
I also think Garuda's SOL statement is accurate and shouldn't be hand-waved aside as if it didn't exist

 

[Qawsedf234]

Since this is a general CRT I'll bring it up here, I'd like to note that the Jagi nuke thing is not a feat and shouldn't be used. It has multiple issues

• Jagi's biker friend who's a normal human survived the nuke blowing up as well
• Jagi heard the explosion before the blast wave actually hit him, meaning he was far enough away from ground zero that the shockwave slowed down to the point where it would be subsonic
• When Jagi got up he saw literally hundreds of other survivors from his location meaning completely normal humans also survived the explosion from similar distances
• The calc does not at all factor in distance and inverse square law. It just assumes Jagi face tanked a point blank nuke with no supporting evidence
• In the same volume where Ken fights Jagi the following happens: Ken is hurt by a crossbow bolt, Jagi believes a shotgun is an effective weapon and when Ken turned the gun on him he had to stop his arm from firing the gun or he would've died, and finally Ken directly compares his durability to steel armor

I get if we're keeping them Tier 6 due to other showings, but the Jagi calc itself needs to go.

Also, unrelated, but for some reason Ken's profile links to Dragon Ball's Shin. Which is weird.

 

[Twellas]

In the same volume where Ken fights Jagi the following happens: Ken is hurt by a crossbow bolt, Jagi believes a shotgun is an effective weapon and when Ken turned the gun on him he had to stop his arm from firing the gun or he would've died, and finally Ken directly compares his durability to steel armor

I genuinely hope you're joking

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm showing that attempting to say Jagi is consistently Low 6-B is a bad. So using legitimate anti-feats from his arc is completely reasonable.

 

[Twellas]

Ken is hurt by a crossbow bolt

completely ignoring the context, Ken asked the kid to shoot him and the whole point of this was for Ken to take that pain and use it against Jagi as revenge for the kid and Ken has shown that he can suppress himself significantly below his 30% mode even against powerful fighters

Jagi believes a shotgun is an effective weapon

irrelevant, Ken himself shows that it isn't, and Jagi spent his latest years fighting random schmucks, of course to him a shotgun is an effective weapon, besides, we know from movies and such that Jagi uses the shotgun as a club and doesn't shoot it

When Ken turned the gun on him he had to stop his arm from firing the gun or he would've died

While it is heavily implied, there's no proof of him dying if he doesn't stop, for all we know, it merely could have broken his helmet, which is a no-no for Jagi

Ken directly compares his durability to steel armor

I won't touch this with a 90 foot pole

 

[Qawsedf234]

irrelevant, Ken himself shows that it isn't

Earlier in a flashback Jagi hitting Ken with a similar shotgun drew blood. The shotgun itself is just a large anti-feat within the volume

which is a no-no for Jagi

The fact he shows fear and stress from it makes the claim of him face tanking a nuke weird in comparison

I won't touch this with a 90 foot pole

Sure, but the main intention is that Jagi should not scale to the nuke's full output. There's no evidence he was close enough to the explosion to fully scale.

EDIT: I should mention that the nuke itself can be kept. Ken breaking the H-Bomb bunker and the like is fine. My only issue is that Jagi in that scene is not withstanding the full force of the bomb, so the reasoning needs adjustment.

 

[Twellas]

Earlier in a flashback Jagi hitting Ken with a similar shotgun drew blood. The shotgun itself is just a large anti-feat within the volume

As I said, Jagi uses it as a club, given how weapons are treated on the wiki, it's not an anti-feat

The fact he shows fear and stress from it makes the claim of him face tanking a nuke weird in comparison

ok... and?

Sure, but the main intention is that Jagi should not scale to the nuke's full output. There's no evidence he was close enough to the explosion to fully scale.

except we literally see the shrapnel from the bomb itself right next to Jagi, and the way the dynamic lines are laid along with the fire, it clearly shows that what Jagi tanked wasn't a mere shockwave. The point about other normal humans also surviving is moot, because none of them were where Jagi was, there are multiple wide-shots where it shows that Jagi is in the middle of the desert, absolutely alone, the shots of other people are just montages of people from all over the country going crazy. About his biker friend, she never got hit by any bomb, it's just a montage to contrast her wishful prayer, the additional star she sees is the Harbinger of Death, not a nuke

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out Qawsedf234.

Also, unrelated, but for some reason Ken's profile links to Dragon Ball's Shin. Which is weird.

You can correct this if you wish.

 

[Twellas]

I'll correct it, dw

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The point about other normal humans also surviving is moot, because none of them were where Jagi was, there are multiple wide-shots where it shows that Jagi is in the middle of the desert, absolutely alone, the shots of other people are just montages of people from all over the country going crazy. About his biker friend, she never got hit by any bomb, it's just a montage to contrast her wishful prayer, the additional star she sees is the Harbinger of Death, not a nuke

How is it moot? They also survived it, no solid indication is given that Jagi moved from his original position in that scan, the biker chick was drawn as being caught in the explosion in a similar way, and once again Jagi hears it explode before the blast wave hits him.

As my edit said I'm not against using the calc for the nuke, just the proposed Jagi scaling line. Going "Nuke -> Bunker -> Ken -> Others" is fine, but not "Nuke -> Jagi -> Others" in my view.

 

[Jasonsith]

Ok.

Nuke < Bunker < Base Pre-Musou Tensei Sealed Kenshiro < Pre-Musou Tensei Sealed Kenshiro with Tenryu Kokyu Ho < Base Post-Musou Tensei Sealed Kenshiro < Post-Musou Tensei Sealed Kenshiro with Tenryu Kokyu Ho (~= Raoh's cloud splitting feat and Falco/Kenshiro cloud splitting feat) < Base Post-Musou Tensei Seal Lifted Kenshiro < Post-Musou Tensei Seal Lifted Kenshiro with Tenryu Kokyu Ho

Right?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah exactly.

For the bunker here's an alternate translation with it being more explicitly nuke proof.

 

[Twellas]

How is it moot? They also survived it, no solid indication is given that Jagi moved from his original position in that scan, the biker chick was drawn as being caught in the explosion in a similar way, and once again Jagi hears it explode before the blast wave hits him.

It's moot because no, the chick was not dranw as being caught in the explosion, man she was in a completely different spot entirely, when he's caught by the bomb, Jagi is in a desert, completely alone while the girls is CLEARLY in some kind of forest, with trees and vegetation. As additional proof that the bomb shown in that pannel was not directed at the girl, just look at it and see that there are outlines of skyscrapers, whereas the girl is, as I've already said, in the middle of an honest to god forest with no building in sight. And what tells you that he heard that same explosion when we literally see the bomb's shrapnel right in front of him? What he heard might have been a completely different explosion entirely, or the nuke being launched

Nuke < Bunker < Base Pre-Musou Tensei Sealed Kenshiro < Pre-Musou Tensei Sealed Kenshiro with Tenryu Kokyu Ho < Base Post-Musou Tensei Sealed Kenshiro < Post-Musou Tensei Sealed Kenshiro with Tenryu Kokyu Ho (~= Raoh's cloud splitting feat and Falco/Kenshiro cloud splitting feat) < Base Post-Musou Tensei Seal Lifted Kenshiro < Post-Musou Tensei Seal Lifted Kenshiro with Tenryu Kokyu Ho

The bunker feat was performed round the last chapters, so post seals less than 30% Ken. Ken's 30% scales to Raoh's feat, not his 100%, as Raoh performed the feat while nowhere near even his average level of power. Also splitting it in pre and post musou tensei doesn't make sense, as MT isn't an AP boost

 

[Twellas]

But the bunker feat might scale to basically everyone, because a randomm grunt tanked being thrown through the walls multiple times

 

[Silvervigilant]

Ken is hurt by a crossbow bolt, Jagi believes a shotgun is an effective weapon and when Ken turned the gun on him he had to stop his arm from firing the gun or he would've died, and finally Ken directly compares his durability to steel armor

So 9-B HNK ? yeah this makes so much sense, even though the series has more than one 6-C to 6-B feats. But you know what Wall Level Kenshiro should be fine.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So 9-B HNK ?

I feel like people on this site have knee jerk panic attacks when anti-feats are brought up as a way to question arguments they like. I wasn't arguing for 9-B anyone, just that Jagi face tanking a nuke is questionable and the chapter was not explicit about it being point blank, especially since other completely normal humans survived detonations at seemingly similar distances.

You can see in my other posts that I wasn't against using the nuke itself to scale people and mentioned Ken had other Tier 6 feats, my issue was always with Jagi directly being scaled to the Nuke's full output.

But yes, obviously I think FoTNS is 9-B and everything not 9-B should be dismissed. They're also obviously subsonic since crossbows can tag people.

What he heard might have been a completely different explosion entirely, or the nuke being launched

The nuke couldn't have been launched, since it was falling to its target. At that point all that left is the warhead.

 

[Twellas]

The nuke couldn't have been launched, since it was falling to its target. At that point all that left is the warhead.

and how do you know this? How do you know the distance between the launch site and Jagi? How do you know how much time passed? How do you know how fast it was? As I said, it could have been a completely different explosion. The idea of him hearing the same explosion he proceded to tank makes no sense because, as Ive said multiple times, you literally see the bomb's shrapnel right in front of Jagi and the explosion come out of them.

I feel like people on this site have some knee jerk jump to conclusions when anti-feats are brought up as a way to dismiss arguments they don't like.

What is one supposed to think when you bring up stuff like Ken being stated to have a dura "like a steel armor"? How is that relevant to Jagi's scaling? It isn't, the only logical reason for you to post that statement was to discredit tier 6 as a whole

just that Jagi face tanking a nuke is questionable and the chapter was not explicit about it being point blank

it is, you see the bomb explode in front of him, you literally can't get more explicit than this

especially since other completely normal humans survived detonations at seemingly similar distances.

again, no, Jagi is completely alone and nobody else is shown to survive the bombs

 

[Qawsedf234]

and how do you know this?

That's how nukes work?

How do you know how fast it was?

He heard it's so the shockwave that hit him was subsonic, which means the distance was not close enough to warrant scaling to it's full total output.

it is, you see the bomb explode in front of him, you literally can't get more explicit than this

The biker girl had similar effects drawn for her, and yet she still survived the explosion. I'm not getting an explicit point blank read from this.

But to show what I previously meant about inverse law, if Jagi was 5 meters away the epicenter feat would be reduced to 6-C due to how little his surface area is compared to the blast. By point blank it would basically need to blow up on him, which isn't how nuclear bombs work.

 

[Twellas]

That's how nukes work?

ah ok so you're just an omniscient god who just knows for a fact that Jagi COULDN'T have heard something else, like another nuke going off somewhere else, a plane, or a billion other things?

He heard it's so the shockwave that hit him was subsonic, which means the distance was not close enough to warrant scaling to it's full total output.

moot because we see the goddamn bomb go off in front of him

The biker girl had similar effects drawn for her, and yet she still survived the explosion. I'm not getting an explicit point blank read from this.

bro did you even read what I wrote? The girl is in a forest, the explosion shown below her takes place in a city because we see buildings, buildings that are nowhere in sight for the girl, since she's in a forest among mountains, that explosion is not something that hit her, it's just a montage of shit going on around the world that is put to contrast with her prayer. Also how the **** could she have had a bomb dropped on her when we see her look directly up at the sky and we ourselves see that there's no bomb or plane in sight? Makes no sense. i'm sorry that you don't get a point blank read from this, because you can straight up see the bomb's fragment shoot out near Jagi

But to show what I previously meant about inverse law, if Jagi was 5 meters away the epicenter feat would be reduced to 6-C due to how little his surface area is compared to the blast. By point blank it would basically need to blow up on him, which isn't how nuclear bombs work.

I already asked DMUA about this in this very thread and he said that it wouldn't effect the calc at all, it might even give it a higher yield. He also agrees that the bomb exploded near enough for it to be a non-factor

 

[Silvervigilant]

I feel like people on this site have some knee jerk jump to conclusions when anti-feats are brought up as a way to dismiss arguments they don't like. I wasn't arguing for 9-B anyone, just that Jagi face tanking a nuke is questionable and the chapter was not explicit about it being point blank, especially since other completely normal humans survived detonations at seemingly similar distances.

You can see in my other posts that I wasn't against using the nuke itself to scale people and mentioned Ken had other Tier 6 feats, my issue was always with Jagi directly being scaled to the Nuke's full output.

But yes, obviously I think FoTNS is 9-B and everything not 9-B should be dismissed.

i understand what you are trying to point out, but i still think that those "Anti-feats" don't hold any value, and shouldn't be taken seriously, because they are simply outliers.

You showed Ken being hurt by a crossbow, but you forgot to mention that in this instance Ken restrained himself.

Jagi thinks that the shotgun would damage him, but we see in Souten no Ken that even weaker enemies are completely bulletproof. Not to mention that Jagi himself could take blows from Kenshiro who as yourself said had other Tier 6 feats.

And about Jagi tanking a nuke, i think Twellas gave good reasons for the feat being valid.

 

[Twellas]

even weaker enemies are completely bulletproof.

link is dead

 

[Silvervigilant]

link is dead

it is ? for me it's fine, but anyway this happens in Souten no Ken Regenesis Manga chapter 3 page 18.