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Fist Of The North Star Revision Part 1 (P&A)

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Stefano4444 said:
Souther fought Raoh to a draw and 100% Kenshiro, Shun should scale to both Souther and Kenshiro and Ryuga did fought Kenshiro (not sure which version).
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I don't think Shu should scale to Souther and Ken, infact he had a little fight with a 30% Post-Toki’s Bind Kenshiro, and Ken despite not even fighting seriously, showed he could easily kill him, and the only thing Shu did was a superficial cut on Kenshiro's chest, Souther on the other hand, easily stomped this same Kenshiro. and we know that Souther is the sole successor of Nanto Hōō Ken making him the most powerful of all the Nanto martial artists. He bears the destiny of the Star of Leadership who rules over the Nanto constellation and therefore none of the other Nanto successors can defeat him.

Ryuga maybe should be Multi-Continent level tho, since he did fought a 100% Post-Shu's call Kenshiro, and while Kenshiro easily stomped him, he did managed to tank Kenshiro's attacks and was able to pierce Ken's shoulder (hard to say if this was done by his sheer brute force or if it was thanks to his technique, since there a lot of durability negating techniques in FOTNS) but overall I can see him being High 6-A
 
Silvervigilant said:
I don't think Shu should scale to Souther and Ken, infact he had a little fight with a 30% Post-Toki’s Bind Kenshiro, and Ken despite not even fighting seriously, showed he could easily kill him, and the only thing Shu did was a superficial cut on Kenshiro's chest, Souther on the other hand, easily stomped this same Kenshiro. and we know that Souther is the sole successor of Nanto Hōō Ken making him the most powerful of all the Nanto martial artists. He bears the destiny of the Star of Leadership who rules over the Nanto constellation and therefore none of the other Nanto successors can defeat him.
Click to expand...
Agree
Silvervigilant said:
Ryuga maybe should be Multi-Continent level tho, since he did fought a 100% Post-Shu's call Kenshiro, and while Kenshiro easily stomped him, he did managed to tank Kenshiro's attacks and was able to pierce Ken's shoulder (hard to say if this was done by his sheer brute force or if it was thanks to his technique, since there a lot of durability negating techniques in FOTNS) but overall I can see him being High 6-A
Click to expand...
High 6-A Ryuga is what I like to see!
 
So have you reached conclusions here now?
 
Antvasima said:
So have you reached conclusions here now?
Click to expand...
Not quite.

1. I do not agree that the Tenryu Kokyu Hou is a valid multiplier for powerscaling purpose which the OP proposes, but neither can convince each other. And making a poll on that is a bad idea given the nature.
2. The scaling chain is Iess disputed (or should I say flamed) but more and more information is being fed into and discussions are about how the scalings should upscale from the Jagi nuke feat or downscale from the Kaioh Earth water evaporating statement.

Proposed by OP and agreed (?):

Existence erasure and nonexistent physiology is debunked (?)
 
So what do the rest of you think about the suggested scaling in the last preceding post above here?
 
FoxySonicMaster108 said:
is alright if I remove Existence Erasure from the users that have Muso Tensei? (Also this thread name should probably be changed, seeing as it isn't just about High 6-A Raoh anymore)
Click to expand...
If that is what was agreed here earlier, sure, that seems fine.
 
@Antvasima If everybody else has nothing to add at the moment, i can start to apply the revision right now, or at least i can revise the characters who keep their tiers.

I will mostly limit to just change tiers, add Soul Manipulation and remove Existence Erasure, since the profiles already explain why the characters are that strong.
 
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That seems fine to me at least. Thank you for helping out. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
That seems fine to me at least. Thank you for helping out. 🙏
Click to expand...
Ok, aside for Kenshiro himself all other profiles have been updated.

I left Kenshiro's profile because i thought we should first discuss about if we should add more keys for any notable power ups he got during the series, not just for the Seals Lifted.
 
Can't you apply the already accepted upgrades first in order to keep things much more consistent for our visitors?
 
Okay. I thought that you were going to change his tiering. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. I thought that you were going to change his tiering. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
Click to expand...
Like i say, i would prefer if we all discuss about which power ups its big enough that a new key its necessary.

Based on the previous draft, Kenshiro may need to be divided in 5 keys at minimum.

Pre-Toki’s Bind | Post-Toki’s Bind | Post-Timeskip | Post-Awakening | Seals Lifted
 
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Okay. I would appreciate if others here are willing to help you out with input about that then.
 
Stefano4444 said:
Like i say, i would prefer if we all discuss about which power ups its big enough that a new key its necessary.

Based on the previous draft, Kenshiro may need to be divided in 5 keys at minimum.

Pre-Toki’s Bind | Post-Toki’s Bind | Post-Timeskip | Post-Awakening | Seals Lifted
Click to expand...
There's also Post- Shu'call
 
I'd say that Shachi should have a profile picture for his Possessed by the Original Hokuto key.
The justification for moon level Kaioh should be changed since Hokuto Ryuken fighters doesn't have a 100% mode the Tenryu Kokyu Ho technique is exclusively of Hokuto Shinken, instead the justification should be "Unleashed himself from his armor in his fight with Seals Lifted Kenshiro, who went 100%."
Also soul manipulation should be given only to Hokuto fighters.
 
Silvervigilant said:
The justification for moon level Kaioh should be changed since Hokuto Ryuken fighters doesn't have a 100% mode the Tenryu Kokyu Ho technique is exclusively of Hokuto Shinken, instead the justification should be "Unleashed himself from his armor in his fight with Seals Lifted Kenshiro, who went 100%."
Click to expand...
Moon level at full power (Unleashed himself from his armor in his fight with Seals Lifted Kenshirod Kenshiro, who went 100%, meaning that he should've also gotten a 3.33x multiplier of power)

Something like this?
 
Silvervigilant said:
Yeah this looks fine
Click to expand...
And for the new tiers, i assume it would be something like this?

Low 6-B/Small Country level (Stronger than Jagi, casually injure him without powering up), higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Can become 3.33x stronger by using his strength at 100%, while normally he can use only 30%) | Low 6-B/Small Country level, higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Fought Shin. Easily defeated him at his 100%) | High 6-A/Multi-Continent level, higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Contended and defeated the likes of Souther and Raoh) | High 6-A/Multi-Continent level, higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Fought against Han and barely won) | At least High 6-A/Multi-Continent level (While having his energy drained, tanked a blast from a restrained Kaioh, who even while restrained was deemed capable of causing a disaster on a scale higher than the nuclear war that vaporized the oceans and cracked the Earth open, while suffering only moderate damage), higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō | At least High 6-A/Multi-Continent level (His initiation ritual should have given him a power boost similar to the one Kasumi received. After lifting the seals of the original Hokuto, he became strong enough to match Kaioh, who easily stomped Kenshiro's previous 100% and people comparable to his previous 100% while in Base. Fought and matched a Hyoh who had used his own version of Tenryū Kokyū Hō and thus was 3.33x as strong as his previous self, which was comparable if not slightly superior to a restrained Kaioh, who admired and feared his power while in his restraining armor), 5-C/Moon level with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Matched and eventually defeat Kaioh, who had went 100% Mode in their final fight). He can ignore conventional durability with most of his attacks

FTL (Faster than Jagi), higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Can become 3.33x faster) | FTL, higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō | At least FTL (Much faster than his previous peak), FTL+ with Tenryū Kokyū Hō | At least FTL, FTL+ with Tenryū Kokyū Hō | FTL+ (Much faster than his previous peak), higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō | At least FTL+, higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō

It probably need a lot of adjustments and futher justifications, but in general it should for the most part accurate (or at least i hope so).
 
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Stefano4444 said:
And for the new tiers, i assume it would be something like this?

Low 6-B/Small Country level (Stronger than Jagi, casually injure him without powering up), higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Can become 3.33x stronger by using his strength at 100%, while normally he can use only 30%) | Low 6-B/Small Country level, higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Fought Shin. Easily defeated him at his 100%) | High 6-A/Multi-Continent level, higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Contended and defeated the likes of Souther and Raoh) | High 6-A/Multi-Continent level, higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Fought against Han and barely won) | At least High 6-A/Multi-Continent level (While having his energy drained, tanked a blast from a restrained Kaioh, who even while restrained was deemed capable of causing a disaster on a scale higher than the nuclear war that vaporized the oceans and cracked the Earth open, while suffering only moderate damage), higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō | At least High 6-A/Multi-Continent level (His initiation ritual should have given him a power boost similar to the one Kasumi received. After lifting the seals of the original Hokuto, he became strong enough to match Kaioh, who easily stomped Kenshiro's previous 100% and people comparable to his previous 100% while in Base. Fought and matched a Hyoh who had used his own version of Tenryū Kokyū Hō and thus was 3.33x as strong as his previous self, which was comparable if not slightly superior to a restrained Kaioh, who admired and feared his power while in his restraining armor), 5-C/Moon level with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Matched and eventually defeat Kaioh, who had went 100% Mode in their final fight). He can ignore conventional durability with most of his attacks

FTL (Faster than Jagi), higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Can become 3.33x faster) | FTL, higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō | At least FTL (Much faster than his previous peak), FTL+ with Tenryū Kokyū Hō | At least FTL, FTL+ with Tenryū Kokyū Hō | FTL+ (Much faster than his previous peak), higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō | At least FTL+, higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō

It probably need a lot of adjustments and futher justifications, but in general it should for the most part accurate (or at least i hope so).
Click to expand...
Yeah this is mostly right
But we need to clarify the reasonings for each Key of Ken.

Beginning of Series (Stronger than Jagi, could casually injure him without powering up), higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Can become 3.33x stronger by using his strength at 100%, while normally he can use only 30%. Easily defeated Shin at his 100%)

Post-Toki’s Bind (Much stronger than before), higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Fought against a 30% Raoh and tied with him)

Post-Shu's Call (Stronger than before), higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Contended and defeated the likes of Souther and Raoh)

Post-Timeskip (Fought and matched Falco while using only 30% his power, Falco was comparable to Raoh. While having his energy drained, tanked a blast from a base Kaioh, who's aura was deemed capable of causing a disaster on a scale higher than the nuclear war that vaporized the oceans and cracked the Earth open, while suffering only moderate damage), higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō.

Post-Awakening (While at 30%, Ken fought and matched a Hyoh who had received the same power boost after also awakening the power of the original Hokuto) higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō.

Seals Lifted (His initiation ritual should have given him a power boost similar to the one Kasumi received. After lifting the seals of the original Hokuto, he became strong enough to match a amped Kaioh), higher with Tenryū Kokyū Hō (Matched and eventually defeat Kaioh, who was much stronger than before)

I did not add the tiers for each Key because I don't know every value for each key of Kenshiro @Eseseso is much more knowledgeable in this than me.

But i think it goes like this:

Beginning of Series 30% Ken: 1.3453015 teratons of TNT (Small Country level) (Scales above Jagi)
Beginning of Series 100% Ken: 4.48433833 teratons of TNT (Small Country level+).
Post-Toki’s Bind 30% Ken: 76.47 petatons (Multi-Continent level) (Became much stronger than before)
Post-Toki’s Bind 100% Ken: 254.9 petatons (Multi-Continent level)
Post-Shu's Call 30% Ken: 254.9 petatons (Multi-Continent level)
Post-Shu's Call 100% Ken: 849.677 petatons (Multi-Continent level)
Post-Timeskip 30% Ken: 849.677 petatons (Multi-Continent level)
Post-Timeskip 100% Ken: 2.832 exatons (Multi-Continent level)
Post-Awakening 30% Ken: 9.44 exatons (Multi-Continent level) (We know Ken's boost was at least 3.33x due to him being superior to matouki Hyoh [who is equal if not stronger than Kaioh] while at 30%, while before awakening his potential, Kaioh was superior to his 100% form)
Post-Awakening 100% Ken: 31.4695 exatons (Moon Level)
Seals Lifted 30% Ken: at least 31.4695 exatons likely higher (Moon Level) (Became stronger than his previous self)
Seals Lifted 100% Ken: 104.898395 exatons (Moon Level)
 
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Eseseso said:
Kasumi's BoS casual Soryu Tenra: https://www.deviantart.com/kirito352/art/Soryu-Tenra-s-power-Hokuto-no-Ken-827476679

Redone version of Jagi's nuke: https://www.deviantart.com/kirito352/art/Jagi-survives-a-nuke-redone-Hokuto-no-Ken-914829391
Click to expand...
You need to put them in their own blogs and be evaluated by the calc group first, if you haven't done already.

Still, the feats would only upgrade the lower tiers to 6-A, although it would support High 6-A scaling for everybody else.

I think that can be done later, i would rather first complete Kenshiro's profile and correct any discrepancy in the other profiles.
 
Stefano4444 said:
@Silvervigilant
vsbattles.fandom.com

Kenshior (Stefano4444)

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Made a blog where we can simply copy and paste everything without issue.

Still, when it come to things like Speed and Lifting Strength, do theyget the same increase with the Tenryū Kokyū Hō's as AP?
Click to expand...
Yep, but even taking the multipliers into considerartion, i don't think that there's anything that put Ken at Massively FTL+ or even at Massively FTL (except the one hundred quitillion punch outilier feat) as far as i know Ken is at most FTL+ even when we take the multipliers into considerartion.
 
Silvervigilant said:
Yep, but even taking the multipliers into considerartion, i don't think that there's anything that put Ken at Massively FTL+ or even at Massively FTL (except the one hundred quitillion punch outilier feat) as far as i know Ken is at most FTL+ even when we take the multipliers into considerartion.
Click to expand...
That its what i got when i applied the multipliers.

Beginning of Series 30% Ken: >1c (FTL).
Beginning of Series 100% Ken: 3.33c (FTL).
Post-Toki’s Bind 30% Ken: >3.33c (FTL)
Post-Toki’s Bind 100% Ken: 11.09c (FTL+)
Post-Shu's Call 30% Ken: >11.09c (FTL+)
Post-Shu's Call 100% Ken: 36.93c (FTL+)
Post-Timeskip 30% Ken: >36.93c (FTL+)
Post-Timeskip 100% Ken: 122.977c (Massively FTL)
Post-Awakening 30% Ken: >122.977c (Massively FTL)
Post-Awakening 100% Ken: 409.513c (Massively FTL)
Seals Lifted 30% Ken: >409.513c (Massively FTL)
Seals Lifted 100% Ken: 1363.678c (Massively FTL+)
 
Stefano4444 said:
That its what i got when i applied the multipliers.

Beginning of Series 30% Ken: >1c (FTL).
Beginning of Series 100% Ken: 3.33c (FTL).
Post-Toki’s Bind 30% Ken: >3.33c (FTL)
Post-Toki’s Bind 100% Ken: 11.09c (FTL+)
Post-Shu's Call 30% Ken: >11.09c (FTL+)
Post-Shu's Call 100% Ken: 36.93c (FTL+)
Post-Timeskip 30% Ken: >36.93c (FTL+)
Post-Timeskip 100% Ken: 122.977c (Massively FTL)
Post-Awakening 30% Ken: >122.977c (Massively FTL)
Post-Awakening 100% Ken: 409.513c (Massively FTL)
Seals Lifted 30% Ken: >409.513c (Massively FTL)
Seals Lifted 100% Ken: 1363.678c (Massively FTL+)
Click to expand...
Oh, Ok. I think this is fine then.

What do you think? @Eseseso
 
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