Fire vs Ice! (Fullmetal Alchemist vs JoJo's Bizarre Adventure)

[WyattR612]

Votes counted

 

[Chariot190]

Is there any evidence on how the temperature would drop in 20+ meters once he activate his ability?

Literally basic science?

Because from what I am seeing there is nothing that suggest that Ghiaccio's main ability of freezing his immediate vicinity would make Mustang unable to ignite the air in a 20+ distance given there is no indication of how much the temperature would drop at such a distance,

Literally basic physics? Which, Jojo acknowledges? Some of which in that very fight.

plus what he did in the video and the scan in which he covered a larger distance wouldn't prevent Mustang to snap his fingers (the other character that is hit by the ice have his arms completely free, which would make Mustang able to snap his fingers, plus the ice needed to travel to him, which would give Roy the time to snap his fingers while the ice is going towards him).

The example was to show range. He wasnt using his high end stuff, and that was after that dude already lost his fingers. Which btw, he can make it so cold people cant move their fingers and they snap off.

Mustang is also able to manipulate and alter the concentration of the oxygen in the air to create the ignition, so to me the only way that it would actually prevent him from doing that would be to basically freeze any oxygen in the air up to 20+ meters.

Which, he can do? And also no. Being able to manipulate it, doesnt mean he can instantly heat it up from say, -100 to ignition temps.

And regarding the part about trains and such, that would give him a higher range than a vague "Several meters", so that should be added to the profile before it can be properly discussed, at least to me.

Part 5 outdated as shit, the scan is on the profile anyway. Hell isnt it his profile quote actually?

Any way, I said what I wanted to say, so I wont continue this discussion further. My vote remain to Mustang since what I have seen doesn't really convince me that Ghiaccio could pull it off, but you are free to disagree with me obviously.

Basic science dude, this isnt up for debate. It's the same shit as why Avdol's flames will make it 80 degrees like 10 meters away from his actual flames.

If Ghiaccio drops everything in a 20m radius of him to -210c, you can bet your ass it's going to be so cold shit like ignition wont work say, 25m or 30m.
That doesnt even have anything to do with his actual AOE, thats just actual physics interplaying with his ability much like Avdol's.
Itd only need to be 1/4th as cold to outright nullify it as well, and even subzero would begin to dwindle it.

 

[Chritin]

Any way, I said what I wanted to say, so I wont continue this discussion further. My vote remain to Mustang since what I have seen doesn't really convince me that Ghiaccio could pull it off, but you are free to disagree with me obviously.

Again, even if Mustang's range is higher, it doesn't change the fact that any kind of ignition couldn't happen around him. It's still so cold that if an ignition were to occur outside of white album's range, it wouldn't travel inside of the stands range due to the same drop in temperature. Plus, Roy's usual tactic is creating explosions on top of people, which would be impossible. at those temperatures. Arguing that White Album's range is too short doesn't work, since Roy still needs to make an explosion near or on Ghiaccio (which he can't).

 

[Chariot190]

Doing a lil math involving temperature gradients at room temp.

White Album's AOE would only need to be 4m to make ignition impossible or drastically mitigated at about 25m.

 

[ThanatosX]

Literally basic science?

Literally basic physics? Which, Jojo acknowledges? Some of which in that very fight.

The example was to show range. He wasnt using his high end stuff, and that was after that dude already lost his fingers. Which btw, he can make it so cold people cant move their fingers and they snap off.

Which, he can do? And also no. Being able to manipulate it, doesnt mean he can instantly heat it up from say, -100 to ignition temps.

Part 5 outdated as shit, the scan is on the profile anyway. Hell isnt it his profile quote actually?

Basic science dude, this isnt up for debate. It's the same shit as why Avdol's flames will make it 80 degrees like 10 meters away from his actual flames.

If Ghiaccio drops everything in a 20m radius of him to -210c, you can bet your ass it's going to be so cold shit like ignition wont work say, 25m or 30m.
That doesnt even have anything to do with his actual AOE, thats just actual physics interplaying with his ability much like Avdol's.
Itd only need to be 1/4th as cold to outright nullify it as well, and even subzero would begin to dwindle it.

Aaaand here we go! Classic, in this wiki it's impossible to have a civil debate without it ending up in a flame... I am so tired of this, why did I even comment on this...

Doing a lil math involving temperature gradients at room temp.

White Album's AOE would only need to be 4m to make ignition impossible or drastically mitigated at about 25m.

And once again, this is assuming the lowest possible end for range of JUST 20+, which as I have specified several times is the absolute lowest possible end which is just to have a debate about this. Envy is 13-14 meter TALL. He is longer than he is taller, yet the room is four times longer than him. And the flames didn't even go straight from one side to the room to the other, but they bent and curved to cover more ground, a flame beam that went straight would have covered far more ground than that. So 20+ is the BARE MINIMUM range of Roy's flame, but it doesn't take much to assume that it is far more than that, towards the 50+, but it is FAR more than even that.
But why am I even wasting time if people can't have a civil conversation. Screw this match, I am out, I will just unfollow to avoid being irked again by arrogant comments.

 

[Chariot190]

Aaaand here we go! Classic, in this wiki it's impossible to have a civil debate without it ending up in a flame... I am so tired of this, why did I even comment on this...

Idk, why are you taking it personally?
Nobody said anything that should warrant you acting like this.

And once again, this is assuming the lowest possible end for range of JUST 20+,

Yeah, i looked at the panels?

which as I have specified several times is the absolute lowest possible end which is just to have a debate about this. Envy is 13-14 meter TALL. He is longer than he is taller, yet the room is four times longer than him.

Radius+temperature gradients.

And the flames didn't even go straight from one side to the room to the other, but they bent and curved to cover more ground, a flame beam that went straight would have covered far more ground than that.

Literally not a factor because of the temperature.

The lower it goes, the weaker it is.

Youre acting like Roy has huge **** off range here, even being generous to him and lowballing White Album, it'd be substantially weakened by several times.

So 20+ is the BARE MINIMUM range of Roy's flame,

In normal 20c yes.

but it doesn't take much to assume that it is far more than that, towards the 50+, but it is FAR more than even that.

As above. 4m White Album invalidates combustion within a 25m radius.

Here's the thing tho, it isnt 4m, it's at least triple that, the fact it's a constant temperature too means the cold source wouldnt increase as well, making it effectively a cold sink.

But why am I even wasting time if people can't have a civil conversation. Screw this match, I am out, I will just unfollow to avoid being irked again by arrogant comments.

Literally ain't that serious. Youre getting mad at funny match because I said physics says youre wrong?
Unfortunate, but it's the case, the fact Jojo acknowledges these physics, makes it non-debatable.

Roy would need to be about 97m away from Ghiaccio based solely on his pre-gently weeps temperatures for the temperature around him to be relatively unaffected.

 

[AThe1412]

But why am I even wasting time if people can't have a civil conversation. Screw this match, I am out, I will just unfollow to avoid being irked again by arrogant comments.

Says the guy who's acting all high and mighty here. This is literally just how Chariot (and frankly many others on this wiki) debates. You just got mad that your argument was dismantled by him pointing out things you didn't account for (also you, for some reason, ignored Chritin's comment about how Roy's range advantage wouldn't even matter). He wasn't even throwing personal insults or anything. Not cool.

 

[noninho]

Bro can cover the distance between him and that wall back there.


Anime to convey the motion better.

This def looks well enough. But, that doesn't matter, the colder he makes it, the colder the general vincinity will drop because that's how temps work. If he makes it like -210c around himself, it won't be as cold 20m away, but it's still gonna be dick cold.



Yes 210, he mentions it himself.

Ahm, ain't air harder to freeze than water?

He wasnt using his high end stuff, and that was after that dude already lost his fingers. Which btw, he can make it so cold people cant move their fingers and they snap off.

Ain't this very own fight (where he was doing iirc the most important mission ever get the boss' daughter, if she was there) an example that he doesn't use his high-end stuff quickly? my point with this question being: he won't start in a way that he'll freeze the entire room like this (-210c) unless he has prior knowledge of Roy's abilities, which means Roy indeed can snap his fingers, which ends up meaning his armor won't help him.
From what i got, Gold Experience could only crack white album, but his punches were limited since GE's hands were freezing, which won't happen in Roy's case (as i've just established), and since (according to OP) Roy's approximatelly 1.4x stronger than GE's punches, his spam of firebolts and explosions of fire, will not only get several cracks on White Album's armor but will also make it harder to breath through that hole on the armor, eventually (as several explosions mean temperature rise, of course).
therefore i mantain my vote on Mustang.

 

[Chariot190]

Ahm, ain't air harder to freeze than water?

Giorno thought it'd be a volume thing like "there's so much water, it should take longer", based on the fact he uh, says that himself, based on Ghiaccio's display of dropping the air to -100c.

Gio was wrong, like, idk what you're expecting when Gio was wrong here. Gio himself was like "I ****** up".

Ain't this very own fight (where he was doing iirc the most important mission ever get the boss' daughter, if she was there) an example that he doesn't use his high-end stuff quickly?

You literally just explained it. He didn't use his high-end stuff or freeze them flatout, BECAUSE he wasn't sure if Trish was with them. If he went all out at the start, Trish would be killed with them, literally ruining the plans and the whole purpose of what he was doing.

my point with this question being: he won't start in a way that he'll freeze the entire room like this (-210c) unless he has prior knowledge of Roy's abilities, which means Roy indeed can snap his fingers, which ends up meaning his armor won't help him.

Other way around, he has absolutely no reason not to go all out at the start. The fact he affirms the only reason he wasn't balls to the wall was due to Trish being there maybe, means this is not only not an argument, but direct implication he DOES go all out usually.

From what i got, Gold Experience could only crack white album, but his punches were limited since GE's hands were freezing,

Incorrect, he landed multiple blows. His arms did end up freezing, but that doesn't change the fact the armor can take multiple blows just fine. Also, ya know, both guides state his armor is tough enough to withstand GE's blows just fine so trying to potray it as "he just got cold" wouldn't matter.

Would also like to point out Ghiaccio's stand can stop bullets, which, when fired, hit temperatures approaching almost 1000 degrees based on the model due to, well gunpowder and velocity. A fact that's actually acknowledged in that fight.

which won't happen in Roy's case (as i've just established), and since (according to OP) Roy's approximatelly 1.4x stronger than GE's punches, his spam of firebolts and explosions of fire, will not only get several cracks on White Album's armor but will also make it harder to breath through that hole on the armor, eventually (as several explosions mean temperature rise, of course).

You haven't actually explained much, the colder it gets, even IF we go with your interpretation of him sandbagging, would still be so cold Roy's explosions would be severly weakened, like to the point I doubt they even could harm him. The fact sandbagging isn't even true so isn't an argument, just makes it all the more worse.

therefore i mantain my vote on Mustang.

Your vote hinges on ignoring why he didn't go all out, the temperatures even needed to incite combustion, the fact even if it isn't outright nullified (which it would be at White Album's higher temps, or even his default because -100c is enough to render ignition impossible for most substances), would still be drastically weakened. If spawned directly on Ghiaccio like Roy often tends to, literally just wouldn't work either under your interpretation, because even at worst, the air around him is far to cold to combust.

 

[AThe1412]

Ghiaccio is basically the ultimate counter to Roy.

 

[Chritin]

Ahm, ain't air harder to freeze than water?

Air has a significant lower freezing point than water, but it also has a much lower specific heat value. Basically, even though it takes a lower temperature to freeze air, it's much easier to lower its temperature than water (especially salt water).

Also that scan was mostly used to communicate white albums range. We already know it at least decrease temperature down to -210 C based on literal statements, and arguably close to absolute zero.

Ain't this very own fight (where he was doing iirc the most important mission ever get the boss' daughter, if she was there) an example that he doesn't use his high-end stuff quickly? my point with this question being: he won't start in a way that he'll freeze the entire room like this (-210c) unless he has prior knowledge of Roy's abilities, which means Roy indeed can snap his fingers, which ends up meaning his armor won't help him.

Chariot already explained why he didn't go all out from the start. He didn't know if Trish was in the car or not and didn't want to risk killing her. La Squadra needed Trish alive to get to the boss, so he wasn't gun-ho to completely freeze them.

From what i got, Gold Experience could only crack white album, but his punches were limited since GE's hands were freezing, which won't happen in Roy's case (as i've just established), and since (according to OP) Roy's approximatelly 1.4x stronger than GE's punches, his spam of firebolts and explosions of fire, will not only get several cracks on White Album's armor but will also make it harder to breath through that hole on the armor, eventually (as several explosions mean temperature rise, of course).
therefore i mantain my vote on Mustang.

So... it can crack his armor a bit (which might I remind everyone is self regenerating considering the fact is made from frozen air), and that kills Ghiaccio how? Ghiaccio has only ever been damaged by actually piercing his armor with something, so cracking it repeatedly without getting a clear shot probably wouldn't do much. Making it harder to breath doesn't really do anything either, since he can freeze his hole over if he so wishes.

Also, I think you are seriously overestimating the heating capacity of explosions. While explosions can get hot, they exist for such a short amount of time that any heat produced would likely dissipate extremely quickly.

 

[WyattR612]

Bump

 

[WyattR612]

Bump

 

[WyattR612]

Spooky bump

 

[WyattR612]

Bump

 

[WyattR612]

Bump

 

[WyattR612]

Bump

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Angry Italian Nerd FRA

 

[WyattR612]

Vote counted and I'll vote for Ghiaccio FRA too, so grace started.

 

[Chritin]

Vote counted and I'll vote for Ghiaccio FRA too, so grace started.

F***ing finally lol.

 

[WyattR612]

Match added. This could be closed (also, cooking another JoJo matchup)