Fire Force 2-C removal (cont. thread)

[PrinceofPein]

What other things? The blog’s purpose was just meant for explaining the 2-C rating. I even made a whole new section specifically for Adolla as a separate space-time so the whole blog is kinda contingent on the tier 2 rating lol.

what i meant by tier 2 area is the "separate space-time" area which I believe do not qualify for the new standards, in the old standards, it would have but not anymore.
So it is the purpose of this thread to quote, this part

Adolla as a Separate Space-Time:​

This section is primarily for pleasing the haters:

To demonstrably prove Adolla as a separate space-time from the main universe and prove the merging between Adolla and the main universe is a merging across the space-time of the two worlds, I will be outlining the sizes of each respective world, listing and providing the criteria needed for the Adolla's world to classify as a separate space-time, as well as the exceptions the Adolla's world bring to the criteria. Let's begin:

The size of Adolla and the Main Universe:​

I would like to clarify the sizes of both the Adolla's world as well as the main universe to get a baseline understanding of each world.

• The main universe is described as being a "boundless cosmos." Boundless in this context to mean "unbounded" or "never ending," indicating an infinitely sized main universe. And as a result, Adolla merges with an infinitely sized universe.
• Adolla and the Kishin have been described as an "innumerable" space with countless flames and has been directly stated to be "infinite" and "endless" multiple other times as well. Note that because Adolla and the Kishin embody the very concepts of "madness" and "fear," those concepts being described as being infinite in size, this would in turn directly correlate to the size of the Kishin/Adolla due to them encompassing and embodying such concepts within themselves.

The disconnection between the Adolla World and The Real World:​

Here it is going to be outlined and proven how the Adolla world is explicitly said to be completely disconnected from the main universe:

• You cannot reach the Adolla world from the main universe. It is another dimension entirely and is made abundantly clear cannot be physically traveled to from the main universe. And does not exist in the main universe.
• Adolla is a reality of pure thoughts and perceptions. It is not "real" in any sense as it is totally imaginary. It has even been described as a "dream reality." Making it more so disconnected from the main universe as the Adolla world is totally "imaginary" while the main universe is actually "real." Showcasing how no interaction can be made between the two worlds prior to the merger
• Adolla has been directly referred to as a higher plane than the real world multiple times across the series to showcase the disconnection between the two realities. This higher dimension cannot be accessed by the lower, real world's dimension and is made abundantly clear in the series that the plane The Evangelist resides in is a transcendence otherworld from the main universe that goes beyond human comprehension. This separate plane cannot even be grasped upon by being in a lower dimension due to its transcendent nature.

Note: All interactions between the main universe and Adolla such as the "tear in space" forming between the two worlds, and the traveling into Adolla through the main world have all only occurred when Adolla has already been merged and linked with the world and thus does not meet any disqualifying criteria for these spaces to be disconnected from one another.

The Universe's Relationship with space-time:​

Instead of typing out a lengthy response here I can simply have the manga explain in full the relationship between the Universe and time.

As the universe expands, time flows. It is a 1:1 direct relationship between space and time. An effect on the universe's "space" and "expansion," has a direct, causal effect on time throughout the universe. It's a "space-time" in the literal sense that they are both on the same axis. Of the universe being a 4 dimensional space-time structure, affecting that universe's space will inherently affect the universe's time in tandem.

This relationship impacts the Adolla plane as well due to the fact that this ability of affecting "space" and "time" through the universe's expansion is done through the linkage of the Adolla plane manipulating such concepts through their embodiment of the very "universe" itself. The world of ideas Adolla encompassing the very conceptual structure of a 4D universe's space-time is completely different than the physical nature of said universe's space-time.

Adolla carrying the time and History of all humanity:​

This section is used to establish how Adolla's embodiment over the idea of mankind's history is a fundamental distinction to the space-time of the real world.

• Adolla as noted above does not just embody all ideas humans have thought up of, but also encompasses the very history of mankind which in turn help make up Adolla as well. This time and history of humanity help make an image of despair within Adolla, and this image made from the history humanity's consciousness has left over in Adolla merges with the present world creating the black flames which envelop the planet. This conceptual nature of time in Adolla creating a distinct real life image of the world showcases the differences between the present of the physical universe's space-time continuum, and the idea of "time" making up a distinct, separate image within Adolla's own space-time.

The temporal time of the main universe's past, present, and future inherently differs to the conceptual nature of time and history that the perception world of Adolla carries within it. While the same x, y, and z point in time may be present within each plane due to the events of the real world matching up to the idea of events humanity perceives, they would still each be spatio-temporally separated from one another due to the fundamental distinction between the physical 4-D axis' of the real universe, and the perceived, conceptual nature of the very idea of "the universe" and its 4-Dimensional space-time structure. This distinction is noted and even qualifies as an exception in the drafted space-time format page seen here. Qualifying the Adolla world as a separate space-time from the real world.

Which I believe is your said debunk to the OP you said in page 1, So I will be addressing it here, I will write up my argument in a bit

 

[Maitreya12]

I’m ******* dead bro I gotta go back in forth between two threads.

One to get my cosmology blog accepted

And the other to get my cosmology blog removed

at the same time

 

[PrinceofPein]

I’m ******* dead bro I gotta go back in forth between two threads.

One to get my cosmology blog accepted

And the other to get my cosmology blog removed

at the same time

its fine, I am not trying to remove your cosmology blog, the rest looks okay from a glance, just that the space-time part needs to be done accordingly so I don't think there will be any statement going on the other thread.
Also you could have just done your cosmology blog here since I thought that was the initial plan and the reason for all the waiting.

 

[Maitreya12]

its fine, I am not trying to remove your cosmology blog, the rest looks okay from a glance, just that the space-time part needs to be done accordingly so I don't think there will be any statement going on the other thread.
Also you could have just done your cosmology blog here since I thought that was the initial plan and the reason for all the waiting.

I was just told I should make a thread to formally accept the cosmology blog.

That made sense cause a cosmology blog can’t just be accepted in a thread meant to downgrade the tier hence I just did it. Didn’t seem like a problem.

If ya got contentions about the cosmology blog, it should probably be addressed in the cosmology blog acceptance tier. Changing the tier like this changes the whole nature of the cosmology blog and I gotta rework the whole thing.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Exactly which is why the Cosmology blog should have waited like I kept hammering but you guys said I should wait and I did, so now you see it does not make sense?
Anyway, this thread is to address the tier, the cosmology blog can come later, or do you have any other argument for 2-C aside what is in the blog?

 

[Maitreya12]

Pain….the cosmology blog was supposed to come first before changing the tier. So was the verse merger thread which isn’t even out yet.

The cosmology blog is the groundwork for the 2-C tier in the first place. It was just providing the formal explanation for the already accepted tier.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Pain….the cosmology blog was supposed to come first before changing the tier.

No it does not, the tier needs to hammered out first to see if theyeven qualify

So was the verse merger thread which isn’t even out yet.

it is done

The cosmology blog is the groundwork for the 2-C tier in the first place. It was just providing the formal explanation for the already accepted tier.

The tier you admitted to not even know they qualify for in the first place?
That said, I am almost done with the part I want to address I will send it

 

[Maitreya12]

No it does not, the tier needs to hammered out first to see if theyeven qualify

Pain that’s literally what everyone told you. To just wait until we got all the kinks surrounding the verse merge thread and cosmology blog before changing the tiers. The last thread you made was closed precisely for this reason and this thread was closed precisely for that reason.

it is done

The thread needs it to be accepted first Pain. It being nearly done doesn’t mean the thread need to open for like the 5th time

The tier you admitted to not even know they qualify for in the first place?

Bruh. This doesn’t even make sense as a pot shot.

I literally went to people you even admitted to knowing about tier 2 rating and they agreed with the tier.

That said, I am almost done with the part I want to address I will send it

you do you.

 

[Cyberblader90]

pain, maitreya, how about you both discuss it in the cosmology blog crt

 

[PrinceofPein]

So I am done with the reply, I will post it in the cosmology thread, but I should say the blog does not address the argument in the OP here, so it still stands, but either way I will add it to the message I am sending

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Alright back to this,

The tears in space are portals for the evangelist to travel between two separate worlds (Adolla and The Universe). The tear simply disconnects the two spaces.

Shinra time travelled within Adolla and Adolla alone since Adolla also encompasses history itself.

 

[Lynieryz]

Agree FRA

 

[ImmortalDread]

By any chance, you mentioned 4 thread moderators that has accepted 2-C, mind @ing them? Because I would like to listen to their reasoning of accepting 2-C since it is kinda iffy.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Her love

His love

I decided to break this down one by one,
My entire argument is based on the fact that adolla is real and physically exist. but either way we do not give physical tiers to something that do not exist, since the reason for universal tier 2 is because of destroying uncountable infinite 3-D matter(universal) if your claim is that these matter do not even exist and just imaginations then why are you arguing tier 2 to begin with?
Anyway let me drop my argument on why adolla physically exist. Since I am the only true FF fan

 

[PrinceofPein]

Now Maitreya point and a bit of his babe point is that Adolla is a mental scape you cannot enter physically and only with your mind.
Now I assure you, I can write a beautiful novel on why Adolla is real and bring so many scenarios, but that is needlessly dragging things out.
So I will just take Burns and Five-two scenario since that is the most straightforward adolla physically exist I have seen
Burns and joker back then when Joker was still five-two went into Amaterasu to clear out infernals
Then after they cleared out the infernals and had one left to go, Burns figured that the infernal is not ordinary and something is not right but it was too late, Joker already launched for the Infernal. The Infernal forcefully dragged them into an adolla link hence they ended up inside Adolla. While they were screaming from the pain, Joker grabbed a handful of the ground and picked up a stone from Adolla right before they were sent back into the their own world. Burns asked if they were hallucinating to which Joker replied "That was no hallucination, we were dragged into some other dimension", and then he proceeded to show burns the stone he picked up from Adolla and said "that world was real". And then the stone from adolla is still burning even till now.
That said, I think this is more than enough proof that Adolla exists physically and you can physically enter Adolla. I mean I can bring up other points, but this is enough as I cannot see anyway anyone can twist this one to mean Adolla is does not exist physically.

 

[Reiner04]

Maitreya

Pain

I see.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I see.

Feels like an anime face off where we scream each others name before we attack

 

[Halkum145]

Feels like an anime face off where we scream each others name before we attack

Like hashirama vs madara

 

[Reiner04]

Feels like an anime face off where we scream each others name before we attack

Yeah, like mai and sakuta.

 

[Maitreya12]

Now Maitreya point and a bit of his babe point is that Adolla is a mental scape you cannot enter physically and only with your mind.
Now I assure you, I can write a beautiful novel on why Adolla is real and bring so many scenarios, but that is needlessly dragging things out.
So I will just take Burns and Five-two scenario since that is the most straightforward adolla physically exist I have seen
Burns and joker back then when Joker was still five-two went into Amaterasu to clear out infernals
Then after they cleared out the infernals and had one left to go, Burns figured that the infernal is not ordinary and something is not right but it was too late, Joker already launched for the Infernal. The Infernal forcefully dragged them into an adolla link hence they ended up inside Adolla. While they were screaming from the pain, Joker grabbed a handful of the ground and picked up a stone from Adolla right before they were sent back into the their own world. Burns asked if they were hallucinating to which Joker replied "That was no hallucination, we were dragged into some other dimension", and then he proceeded to show burns the stone he picked up from Adolla and said "that world was real". And then the stone from adolla is still burning even till now.
That said, I think this is more than enough proof that Adolla exists physically and you can physically enter Adolla. I mean I can bring up other points, but this is enough as I cannot see anyway anyone can twist this one to mean Adolla is does not exist physically.

Ok so for one….no this is completely wrong. Like woefully incorrect.

For one, here’s the full sequence of events for the scene you’re talking about. Here once again we can plainly see clear as day they were mentally dragged into Adolla. They did not “physically enter” Adolla at all. We clearly see they were being affected by the noise the inferno was giving off and saw the Adolla link through they eye as we can see their eye reacting to the Inferno’s screech. Hell Joker can even be seen having his eye being burned up in the real world while he’s grabbing onto something through the “Adolla link.” So no they didn’t physically enter the Adolla world at all.

Hell we even clearly see they remain on earth as they were dragged in Adolla for the fact that we see their bodies on the ground with their eye burning up. The inferno literally lunged after them at the same time they were dragged into Adolla but still reacted accordingly, proving they remained on Earth as they witnessed the instance. Them bringing back a souvenir with them doesn’t prove they “physically entered” Adolla either because as I told you Adolla is a world that both exists and doesn’t exist at the same time. The thing in Joker’s hand being real from Adolla doesn’t prove they were physically entering Adolla at all since the pebble was “blipped” into Joker’s hand from Adolla. Joker wasn’t blipped back into reality with the pebble already in his hand like you are saying.

But to really….really hammer in the point home about how the Adolla world is a mental world while the physical body remains on earth well…..we on panel witness it happen to Shinra.

Here we can see what happens is that Shinra begins to be influenced by Amaterasu linking up with his mind in the Adolla plane, this is turn causes his physical body to be taken over by her in the real world. It’s even directly stated that “she’s possessing him through an Adolla link.” Word for word.

This objectively and unequivocally proves the notion that the Adolla plane is a mental space being accessed to by the characters while their physical bodies remain on earth. This is further reinforced with Shinra viewing the past and his body being possessed showing that I mentioned earlier as well. There is no “physical entering” of Adolla. They are only ever “dragged into there” as Joker puts it. And even then we clearly see their bodies remaining in the physical plane as is the case with Shinra multiple times.

 

[PrinceofPein]

The shinra stuff will come later and it is not relevant to this event for now, but to address this first

For one, here’s the full sequence of events for the scene you’re talking about. Here once again we can plainly see clear as day they were mentally dragged into Adolla. They did not “physically enter” Adolla at all. We clearly see they were being affected by the noise the inferno was giving off and saw the Adolla link through they eye as we can see their eye reacting to the Inferno’s screech. Hell Joker can even be seen having his eye being burned up in the real world while he’s grabbing onto something through the “Adolla link.” So no they didn’t physically enter the Adolla world at all.

They held their ears, does that mean mentally dragged when we literally saw them physically inside adolla
From chapter 129 this is the order of events, stop mixing it up.
1. They saw the infernal and Joker went for it
2. The infernal made a noise and then they held their ears
3. then we see their eyes getting scratched up
4. We saw Joker's flashback and then We see them inside adolla
5. then we see their eyes ignite and we see joker on the floor inside adolla grabbing a handful
6. We see them back on earth on the floor.
7. Burns attacked the infernal
8. We see joker's hand and the pebble he grabbed from adolla.
9. We hear joker say "This is not a hallucination, that was real"

So your claim here is that they were hallucinating, but Joker said they are not, so who do you think I will believe you or joker?

Hell we even clearly see they remain on earth as they were dragged in Adolla for the fact that we see their bodies on the ground with their eye burning up.

after they left adolla, yes they were seen on the ground. And then we see the infernal going for joker. stop misconstruing it

The inferno literally lunged after them at the same time they were dragged into Adolla but still reacted accordingly, proving they remained on Earth as they witnessed the instance. Them bringing back a souvenir with them doesn’t prove they “physically entered” Adolla either because as I told you Adolla is a world that both exists and doesn’t exist at the same time. The thing in Joker’s hand being real from Adolla doesn’t prove they were physically entering Adolla at all since the pebble was “blipped” into Joker’s hand from Adolla. Joker wasn’t blipped back into reality with the pebble already in his hand like you are saying.

This once again is misconstruing the evidence, we saw joker's hand on the floor grabbing and even made the "skrrrrrr" sound like something scratching sands and handful and then he picked up a stone from adolla
And stop using weird translations, it is not blip but "bwooh" sign of something burning.
Also Joker direct statement is "that was no hallucination, that was real" dude there is no way in hell you can keep ignroing the whole context about this. Like there is no way you are saying they are hallucinating but the author made it clear through joker that they did not hallucinate but it was real. Also the word used was "You still have that rock? the one you brought back from adolla"
Again stop denying all these evidences to push a baseless agenda as far as I am concerned

Also the Evangelist bless the Anime for making this right, Argue against this order of events again

 

[Maitreya12]

The shinra stuff will come later and it is not relevant to this event for now, but to address this first

Ok I’ll be waiting for you to address the argument then.

They held their ears, does that mean mentally dragged when we literally saw them physically inside adolla
From chapter 129 this is the order of events, stop mixing it up.

They clutch their ears to block out the noise and their eyes are shown to be distorted. It then transitions into their heads where their memories are shown. No physical transportation into Adolla is actually shown, the order of events depicted are shown.

So your claim here is that they were hallucinating, but Joker said they are not, so who do you think I will believe you or joker?

Stop.

I am gonna show you how everything you've just mentioned, that whole numbered list you gave, actually goes to my favor especially with in the anime link you gave me.

But for right now I’m gonna clarify that I am not arguing that they are “hallucinating” or that this is an “illusion.” This is a horrendous strawman on your part. You keep citing how “Adolla can’t be real and not real” and I’m literally providing to you the scan which totally says they can. And you’re just not addressing the argument. Adolla can manifest itself in reality, we literally can see that when the world is merging. I’m gonna go more in depth on this point later on but suffice to say

Is Shinra simply “hallucinating” Amaterasu when she is literally possessing his body and talking directly to him from Adolla? No of course not she is actually possessing Shinra’s body from within Adolla. There is no “illusion” there so just as you wouldn’t call her an illusion I don’t know why you’re trying to extend this language towards Burns and Joker.

after they left adolla, yes they were seen on the ground. And then we see the infernal going for joker. stop misconstruing it

Nope. We see a white background before Joker is grabbing the pebble which clearly has a black background surrounding it. Notice how there is also no transition or transportation between panels of Joker grabbing the pebble and him still being on the floor. Because he simply never actually “physically” left the area.

Also the Evangelist bless the Anime for making this right, Argue against this order of events again

Oh bless the anime indeed because this exactly proves my point?

Let’s look at how the anime depicts the scene:

1) The inferno shows up and starts screaming.
2) Burns and Joker clutch their ears in pain and one respective eye of each of them begins to start distorting.
3) The transition leads into Joker’s head through his eye into a flashback of his memories.

Notice how no transportation or transition of Adolla takes place and instead goes inside Joker’s mind into his memories.

4) The flashback then transitions again into Joker’s eye literally tunneling into his head where their sole eye burns and they then witness Adolla.
5) Joker starts screaming and grabs a pebble from Adolla while continuing to scream in the real world.
6) Burns then takes out the inferno.

Notice how this depiction perfectly helps illustrate my point as they are literally transitioning into their minds as it shows the transitions going into their heads, into the memories and witnessing Adolla through their sole distorted eye that is being burned up as compensation. If both their eyes were in Adolla being physically transported both would’ve burned, but only one did.

Hell even the very sound effects they’re using for Adolla matches up with the mental linkage an Adolla link does. How do I know this? Well because that’s exactly how the anime depicts it.





Notice how literally the exact same sound effects and exact same transitions occur within Shinra’s mind while he’s remaining in the physical world. He’s even talking out loud from within Adolla. Is Amaterasu “just a hallucination” Pain? Is she “just an illusion and not real?” Is she not actually possessing Shinra there?

How about we go a step further? Is Captain Kayako just “touching an illusion” when she saves Shinra’s life from the real world through her connection to Shinra while he was within the world of perception, Adolla? Was that just a hallucination for her Pain, did she not actually burn up?

If the answer to any of these is “no” then stop claiming I’m saying what Joker and Burns experienced is “just an illusion.” It’s a bad strawman when I never made such a claim.

I think I’ve thoroughly established my point…..but screw it I’ll do it again:



What you’re seeing right here is the whole interaction between Sho and Shinra when he does an Adolla link with them. He literally doesn’t move from where he was in the real world. He was mentally connected to Sho through the Adolla link but remained in the real world as is consistently shown. Even the same transition the anime uses for both Shinra being possessed and for Joker and Burns’ interaction is used here in the manga. And still we clearly see Shinra remained in the real world as he was having a literal conversation with Sho within Adolla.

I also noticed how you never addressed Deceived’s argument either which was unrelated to my “mind” argument as well:

I’m not entirely sure that Adolla “physically exist” in the sense Matireya’s arguing it, it seems like (could be wrong, he’d have to explain more in-depth on what he meant) he’s arguing that Adolla exist as the “perceptions and thoughts” of the unconscious mass from an ontological level, appealing to the “reality” itself being “imaginary”. The existence of objects or entities with physicality within said dimension isn’t innate evidence against the dimension itself being “unreal” since there’s “levels of existence” to every object when examined under a metaphysical context.

For example; objects or entities can be “real” on a physical level, as in, be composed of physical matter, but be “unreal”, or have “unreal” properties on an ontological level, as in, be an “illusory” existence conceptually, fundamentally etc. So i wouldn’t necessarily say just because physical entities can exist within the dimension it means the dimension physically exists. But Maitreya also brought up the counter that these characters aren’t even physically existing within Adolla, but rather, only their mental’s are transported, which would completely counter the “physical” part of your argument if true, even disregarding my argument.

All in all, rather poor response to the arguments presented before you. Which you didn’t even address in this post.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Quick question, before I continue, Do you realize that the reason why the profiles have 2-C is because Adolla is thought to be a physical plane and has matter in it, with this, you do realize it invalidates the entire 2-C on the profiles currently?
I just want to clear that up before we continue

 

[Maitreya12]

Quick question, before I continue, Do you realize that the reason why the profiles have 2-C is because Adolla is thought to be a physical plane and has matter in it, with this, you do realize it invalidates the entire 2-C on the profiles currently?
I just want to clear that up before we continue

I….don’t believe that invalidates the 2-C on the profiles…like at all as the whole notion is that the Adolla’s space-time plane is merging with the real physical world. And again as I’ve pointed out Adolla can be real and not real at the same time since it can obviously manifest itself in the real world despite it being a world purely of thoughts. It literally can be made into “thought given form” as it is described.

The Adolla plane dude is a totally conceptual plane with all the thoughts and human ideation composing it. It houses the entire consciousness and minds of all of humanity into its being. Hell the Adolla plane should also be classified as a spiritual plane too as it doesn’t just include the mind of all of humanity but the souls of humanity as well. So I really don’t think the argument you’re trying to spin here applies at all.

Especially since I have in fact had this checked out and was informed multiple times by knowledgeable members that this does in fact qualify and meet the new standards for it being 2-C

 

[PrinceofPein]

I….don’t believe that invalidates the 2-C on the profiles…like at all as the whole notion is that the Adolla’s space-time plane is merging with the real physical world. And again as I’ve pointed out Adolla can be real and not real at the same time since it can obviously manifest itself in the real world despite it being a world purely of thoughts. It literally can be made into “thought given form” as it is described.

The Adolla plane dude is a totally conceptual plane with all the thoughts and human ideation composing it. It houses the entire consciousness and minds of all of humanity into its being. Hell the Adolla plane should also be classified as a spiritual plane too as it doesn’t just include the mind of all of humanity but the souls of humanity as well. So I really don’t think the argument you’re trying to spin here applies at all.

you did not answer my questions here, the question here is that you realize that no matter is joining together here, or are you saying matters are joing together? I am not interest in inflated languages. Just are there matters joining together here?

Cause your claim is that adolla does not exist physically hence has no matter in it.
I really do not want to waste time anymore. I am getting tired and have other things to do

checked out and was informed multiple times by knowledgeable members that this does in fact qualify and meet the new standards for it being 2-C

Tag them here, I made the the thread about the new standard, so tag the ones that told you it qualifies. Just the username, I will get someone to tag them

 

[Maitreya12]

you did not answer my questions here, the question here is that you realize that no matter is joining together here, or are you saying matters are joing together? I am not interest in inflated languages. Just are there matters joining together here?

Cause your claim is that adolla does not exist physically hence has no matter in it.
I really do not want to waste time anymore. I am getting tired and have other things to do

Well for one. Yes there is matter within Adolla. Literally the very black flames that swallow up the earth are residing in Adolla. We can see Adolla and the matter within it can physically exist yes. Not only that but the Adolla plane is also spiritual in nature due to it housing all the souls of all of humanity. So unless you’re stating a spiritual plane merging with a physical plane cannot be 2-C either this doesn’t meet any disqualifying criteria. Adolla houses both the mind and the soul of humnanity it. Hence why Adolla link connections occur in the mind. This isn’t “inflated language” so idk why you’re trying to argue as such.

This isn’t contradictory to me because my argument isn’t that Adolla does not truly exist and isn’t real. It’s that Adolla can both exist and not exist at the same time due to it simply being a world of pure perception. Like I have said multiple times now.

If you’re getting sick and not want to waste time then please stop misrepresenting my arguments. This has happened multiple times now, it makes me sick of dealing with it and it makes you waste your time. So stop doing it.

Tag them here, I made the the thread about the new standard, so tag the ones that told you it qualifies. Just the username, I will get someone to tag them

@KLOL506 @Dalesean027

I am sorry for having to continually having to bother you but I require your assistance as Pain would like to know who checked the blog and had it verified to meet the standards for 2-C.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Well for one. Yes there is matter within Adolla. Literally the very black flames that swallow up the earth are residing in Adolla. We can see Adolla and the matter within it can physically exist yes. Not only that but the Adolla plane is also spiritual in nature due to it housing all the souls of all of humanity. So unless you’re stating a spiritual plane merging with a physical plane cannot be 2-C either this doesn’t meet any disqualifying criteria. Adolla houses both the mind and the soul of humnanity it. Hence why Adolla link connections occur in the mind. This isn’t “inflated language” so idk why you’re trying to argue as such.

You are contradicting yourself again, pick a side I am tired of this, first you say Adolla does not exist physically now you are saying it does.
Housing mind and souls does not mean it does not exist physically, also if you are pushing for non-existent adolla plane, then again your 2-C falls apart
And yes I am saying merging a plane of imagination with a physical plane does not meet the requirements for 2-C.
Since it has to do with two universes containing matter, then merging them across the entire continuum to say merge them from the past, present and future and not just the moment, and we have not even gotten to the part where I say the merge did not happen across the entire space-time continuum but rather your the current moment, the way the world was currently. then the shinra's feat, I mean we have a long way to go so please pick a side, I do not need long posts, just tell me "Adolla exists physically" or "Adolla does not exist physically"
Also the deceived argument is invalidated by your claims here like he said, so I will not bother pointing out where he was wrong

This isn’t contradictory to me because my argument isn’t that Adolla does not truly exist and isn’t real. It’s that Adolla can both exist and not exist at the same time due to it simply being a world of pure perception. Like I have said multiple times now.

No here says "WHILE WE CAN SEE IT EXISTS HERE AT THE SAME TIME IT DOES NOT"
This is in reference to the adolla eye they are seeing in front of them, it is not saying adolla does not exist and exist at the same time, that is a different thing entirely. It is saying the one they are seeing here is not the real one. this is english shenanigans @LordGinSama is a english guy, have him look into it then he can explain the meaning

If you’re getting sick and not want to waste time then please stop misrepresenting my arguments. This has happened multiple times now, it makes me sick of dealing with it and it makes you waste your time. So stop doing it.

I am not misrepresenting your argument, I get it totally but you are not even seeing your own contradiction. What I am getting sick of is you passing this thing around and not sticking your your guns.

@KLOL506 @Dalesean027

I am sorry for having to continually having to bother you but I require your assistance as Pain would like to know who checked the blog and had it verified to meet the standards for 2-C.

@Dalesean027 is not knowledgeable on the subject and I have known him for a while on the wiki and neither did he participate in the thread, @KLOL506 is farily a knowledgeable guy on tier 2 before the revision and did participate in the revision, but was not active and even after the thread was done, he still showed he did not understand the subject matter of the thread.

 

[Deceived3596]

Also the deceived argument is invalidated by your claims here like he said, so I will not bother pointing out where he was wrong

Concession Accepted via the burden of rejoinder.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Concession Accepted via the burden of rejoinder.

Well why should I give you the satisfaction of peace when I am free and after today I do not know when next I will be free

For example; objects or entities can be “real” on a physical level, as in, be composed of physical matter, but be “unreal”, or have “unreal” properties on an ontological level, as in, be an “illusory” existence conceptually, fundamentally etc. So i wouldn’t necessarily say just because physical entities can exist within the dimension it means the dimension physically exists.

This statement is based on the idea that entities can be "real" on a physical level, but "unreal" on an ontological level. This distinction between physical and ontological reality is an important one in certain philosophical traditions. Physical reality refers to the world of measurable, tangible objects and properties, while ontological reality concerns the nature of existence itself.
In this context, it is possible for physical objects to have properties that are not grounded in physical reality. For example, a visual illusion may appear to be a physical object, but it is not actually there in the same way that a solid, tangible object is. In this sense, the illusory object is "real" in a physical sense, but "unreal" on an ontological level, since its existence is based on perception rather than material reality.
your statement also suggests that the existence of physical entities within a given "dimension" does not necessarily imply that the dimension itself physically exists. This point relies on a particular understanding of what a "dimension" is. In certain scientific contexts, a dimension can be understood as a measurable physical property, such as length, width, or time. However, in other contexts, a dimension may refer to a theoretical construct, such as a mathematical space or a conceptual framework used to describe the nature of reality. In these cases, the relationship between physical entities and the dimension itself may be more complex and abstract than in a strictly physical sense.
In summary, the argument presented in your argument is based on certain philosophical assumptions and depends on a particular understanding of reality and the nature of existence. It is important to consider the context in which the argument is being made and the meanings of key terms, such as "real," "unreal," and "dimension." if you will be so kind to define what you mean by these three terms based on what i said above

but to say, If we use a strictly scientific approach to define reality, then the existence of measurable physical objects within a world would certainly suggest that the world is real. In this sense, the world is seen as an objective, measurable, and tangible phenomenon that can be studied and understood through empirical observation and scientific inquiry.
In summary, whether the world is "real" depends on the philosophical framework being used to define reality. If we use a strictly empirical or scientific approach, then the existence of physical entities within a world suggests that the world is real. However, from other philosophical perspectives, the question of whether the world is "real" is more complex and may not have a straightforward answer.
The wiki uses scientific approach so to say the least, Adolla is real if it contains physical objects

 

[Deceived3596]

Real

I'll address the above later.

 

[Maitreya12]

You are contradicting yourself again, pick a side I am tired of this, first you say Adolla does not exist physically now you are saying it does.
Housing mind and souls does not mean it does not exist physically, also if you are pushing for non-existent adolla plane, then again your 2-C falls apart

It’s genuinely as if you simply don’t read my argument:

This isn’t contradictory to me because my argument isn’t that Adolla does not truly exist and isn’t real. It’s that Adolla can both exist and not exist at the same time due to it simply being a world of pure perception. Like I have said multiple times now.

You literally just ignored what I said entirely and attempted to say I “contradicted” myself by strawmaning what I said. This is being argued to ad nauseam at this point.

Adolla being nonexistent comes from it being composed of pure thoughts itself however that doesn’t dispute the other aspects to Adolla such as housing the mind and souls of all of humanity either.

And yes I am saying merging a plane of imagination with a physical plane does not meet the requirements for 2-C.
Since it has to do with two universes containing matter, then merging them across the entire continuum to say merge them from the past, present and future and not just the moment, and we have not even gotten to the part where I say the merge did not happen across the entire space-time continuum but rather your the current moment, the way the world was currently. then the shinra's feat, I mean we have a long way to go so please pick a side, I do not need long posts, just tell me "Adolla exists physically" or "Adolla does not exist physically"

Literally both can be true at the same time. We deadass have a name for this on our very wiki on the nonexistent physiology page where something can both be 1 and 0 at the same time. You act as if this isn’t an already established ability on the wiki.

Also the deceived argument is invalidated by your claims here like he said, so I will not bother pointing out where he was wrong

His argument is different than mine though. Why are you lunging these things together when they’re completely separate arguments from a different person?

No here says "WHILE WE CAN SEE IT EXISTS HERE AT THE SAME TIME IT DOES NOT"
This is in reference to the adolla eye they are seeing in front of them, it is not saying adolla does not exist and exist at the same time, that is a different thing entirely. It is saying the one they are seeing here is not the real one. this is english shenanigans

Nope. The quote is “this too is thought given form. While we can see it exists right here at the same time it does not.”

You’re also objectively wrong in saying “they’re saying the Adolla eye isn’t the real one.” Because Shinra directly states that the eye “So this is Adolla.” He directly labels the eye as Adolla. So your notion that the eye isn’t Adolla gets thoroughly disputed. Not to mention how this eye absorbs the thoughts of humanity just like Adolla does. The reason the Adolla eye is labeled as “thought given form” is because it’s literally absorbing composing the world of perception from the thoughts of humanity itself. And I’m sure you don’t dispute the notion of the thought bubbles characters have in manga as being nonexistent in nature. Henceforth the statement of Adolla both “existing and not existing” at the same time.

This further gets cemented when Shinra and Sho enter as they describe “the world of perception” that is Adolla. When they enter the world of thought in the eye which is distinctly different from the real world as well. Something Shinra directly like a to “being impossible” because he’s entering a world of pure perception.

I am not misrepresenting your argument, I get it totally but you are not even seeing your own contradiction. What I am getting sick of is you passing this thing around and not sticking your your guns.

Yes you are. You have multiple times now strawmanned me and my arguments. You state that I’m claiming Burns and Joker are “only experiencing a hallucination” when I said no such thing.

You state I contradict myself and then pose a statement I never made acting as if it’s my own. You have continually misrepresented my arguments multiple times over the course of this discussion alone. Not even mentioning all the other instances of such in our previous discussions.

What you’re getting sick of is the narrative you make claiming it’s my argument and then get confused when I say something different. That’s your own doing here.

@Dalesean027 is not knowledgeable on the subject and I have known him for a while on the wiki and neither did he participate in the thread, @KLOL506 is farily a knowledgeable guy on tier 2 before the revision and did participate in the revision, but was not active and even after the thread was done, he still showed he did not understand the subject matter of the thread.

Ok well what I think I’m gonna do is go to head to some other knowledges members on the tier such as Glassman and Plank a few questions concerning the tier 2 requirements and hopefully have them evaluate the blog as well. Because I’m tired of this back and forth schtick of who’s right and who’s wrong and I’m just gonna settle it myself.

 

[Vasco]

Question: Metaphysical realms can't be Low 2-C/2-C?

Cause if it's not accepted in the wiki, I find it odd.

 

[Arkenis]

Question: Metaphysical realms can't be Low 2-C/2-C?

Cause if it's not accepted in the wiki, I find it odd.

Yeah I'm unaware why this argument is being made, always thought the size and dimensionality of the realm mattered for tiers, not the plane it exist on.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

first you say Adolla does not exist physically now you are saying it does.

Nonexistent Physiology

Nonexistent Physiology refers to the ability to lack certain aspects of one's existence, to paradoxically 'exist,' yet lack certain identifiable traits of existence or exist outside of a particular scope of 'existence.' While true nonexistence in the philosophical sense is impossible to prove...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[PrinceofPein]

I will just address the scans you are misconstruing instead

s “this too is thought given form. While we can see it exists right here at the same time it does not.”

What does it mean to give something form? let me do some english class i guess
To bring something to form means to take an idea or a concept and turn it into a physical or tangible object or reality.
To give form to something means to create a physical or tangible shape, structure, or representation of an idea or concept. It involves taking something that exists as a mental image or abstract idea and turning it into something that can be seen, touched, or experienced in the physical world.
You can find this two meaning by using a simple phrase dictionary, so yes it means physically existing.
The phrase "this too is thought given form" suggests that everything that exists in the world is the manifestation of an idea or a thought and Adolla brings it to life. In other words, the things that they see, hear, touch, taste, and smell in the adolla, are the result of someone or something having a thought or an idea and then adolla bringing it into existence.
Adolla is a reflection of the thoughts, ideas, beliefs, and intentions of those who brought them into being.
Now the other part of that
The statement "While we can see it exists right here at the same time it does not" suggests a paradoxical or contradictory situation. It may refer to something that appears to exist in a physical or tangible form, but in reality, it may not truly exist in the way that we understand existence.
Although we can observe that something exists in a particular location (i.e., "right here"), at the same time it may also seem to not exist or be absent in some sense, such as referring to an object that is visible but intangible or difficult to grasp. to put it simply a mirage.
Now join the two explanations together

composed of pure thoughts itself

this is just a diagram and then we have thought as the connection, what you said "composed of pure thought itself" is an inflated language

You state that I’m claiming Burns and Joker are “only experiencing a hallucination” when I said no such thing.

Define hallucination
oh nevermind, I will

A hallucination is a sensory experience that seems real but is not based on external stimuli. It is a perception of something that is not present in the environment and is typically experienced in one or more of the senses, such as vision, hearing, taste, smell, or touch.

So whats the difference?
you said their experience happened in their mind but not physically but joker said its real

You’re also objectively wrong in saying “they’re saying the Adolla eye isn’t the real one.” B

I am saying it exists elsewhere also nor that it is not the real one.

Question: Metaphysical realms can't be Low 2-C/2-C?

Cause if it's not accepted in the wiki, I find it odd.

Metaphysical is a broad term, they can be depends on context, they can be 1-A or even higher and they can also be tier 11

Nonexistent Physiology

Nonexistent Physiology refers to the ability to lack certain aspects of one's existence, to paradoxically 'exist,' yet lack certain identifiable traits of existence or exist outside of a particular scope of 'existence.' While true nonexistence in the philosophical sense is impossible to prove...

vsbattles.fandom.com

What fundamental aspect of existence does adolla lack? Let me know

 

[Vasco]

Yeah I'm unaware why this argument is being made, always thought the size and dimensionality of the realm mattered for tiers, not the plane it exist on.

I mean the Adolla seems like some Low 2-C metaphysical realm.

Metaphysical is a broad term, they can be depends on context, they can be 1-A or even higher and they can also be tier 11

My point is Adolla seems like a Low 2-C metaphysical realm, it not being physical shouldn't be a problem if metaphysical realms can gain higher tiers, no?

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah but I think its clear this realm is meant to portray the universe, not anything lower or higher.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Disagree with Pein FRA

 

[Dalesean027]

Real question here if the original upgrade thread was accepted, your downgrade thread was rejected and any preceeding threads involving blogs and cosmology even the one recent one that was made was also just accepted by Notable staff

What even is the point of this being open if no one agrees this is valid

Post in thread 'Fire Force Cosmology Blog Acceptance Thread!' https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-force-cosmology-blog-acceptance-thread.149626/post-5498680

 

[PrinceofPein]

I mean the Adolla seems like some Low 2-C metaphysical realm.

My point is Adolla seems like a Low 2-C metaphysical realm, it not being physical shouldn't be a problem if metaphysical realms can gain higher tiers, no?

The point is that Adolla is a realm that only exists in imagination and not real, in that case it can no longer be granted a physical tier

@Dalesean027 first the reason for the downgrade thread was the upgrade thread and this is just the continuation of the downgrade thread after the tier 2 revisions were done, and just because you and some FF fans do not agree with this does not mean it is not valid. Also arguments are still going on.