The shinra stuff will come later and it is not relevant to this event for now, but to address this first
Ok I’ll be waiting for you to address the argument then.
They held their ears, does that mean mentally dragged when we literally saw them physically inside adolla
From chapter 129 this is the order of events, stop mixing it up.
They clutch their ears to block out the noise and their eyes are shown to be distorted. It then transitions into their heads where their memories are shown. No physical transportation into Adolla is actually shown, the order of events depicted are shown.
So your claim here is that they were hallucinating, but Joker said they are not, so who do you think I will believe you or joker?
Stop.
I am gonna show you how everything you've just mentioned, that whole numbered list you gave, actually goes to my favor
especially with in the anime link you gave me.
But for right now I’m gonna clarify that I am not arguing that they are “hallucinating” or that this is an “illusion.” This is a horrendous strawman on your part. You keep citing how “Adolla can’t be real and not real” and
I’m literally providing to you the scan which totally says they can. And you’re just not addressing the argument. Adolla can manifest itself in reality, we literally can see that when the world is merging. I’m gonna go more in depth on this point later on but suffice to say
Is Shinra simply “hallucinating” Amaterasu when
she is literally possessing his body and talking directly to him from Adolla? No of course not she is actually possessing Shinra’s body from within Adolla. There is no “illusion” there so just as you wouldn’t call her an illusion I don’t know why you’re trying to extend this language towards Burns and Joker.
after they left adolla,
yes they were seen on the ground. And then we see the infernal going for joker. stop misconstruing it
Nope. We see a
white background before Joker is grabbing the pebble which clearly has a
black background surrounding it. Notice how there is also
no transition or
transportation between panels of Joker grabbing the pebble and him still being on the floor. Because he simply never actually “physically” left the area.
Also the Evangelist bless the Anime for making this right, Argue against this order of events again
Oh bless the anime indeed because this exactly proves my point?
Let’s look at how the anime depicts the scene:
1) The inferno shows up and starts screaming.
2) Burns and Joker clutch their ears in pain and one respective eye of each of them begins to start distorting.
3) The transition leads into Joker’s head through his eye into a flashback of his memories.
Notice how no transportation or transition of Adolla takes place and instead goes inside Joker’s mind into his memories.
4) The flashback then transitions
again into Joker’s eye literally tunneling into his head where their sole eye burns and they then witness Adolla.
5) Joker starts screaming and grabs a pebble from Adolla while continuing to scream in the real world.
6) Burns then takes out the inferno.
Notice how this depiction perfectly helps illustrate my point as they are literally
transitioning into their minds as it shows the transitions going into their heads, into the memories and witnessing Adolla through their sole distorted eye that is being burned up as compensation. If both their eyes were in Adolla being physically transported both would’ve burned, but only one did.
Hell even the very sound effects they’re using for Adolla matches up with the
mental linkage an Adolla link does. How do I know this? Well because that’s exactly how the anime depicts it.
Notice how literally the exact same sound effects and exact same transitions occur
within Shinra’s mind while he’s remaining in the physical world. He’s even talking out loud from within Adolla. Is Amaterasu “just a hallucination” Pain? Is she “just an illusion and not real?” Is she not actually possessing Shinra there?
How about we go a step further? Is Captain Kayako just “touching an illusion”
when she saves Shinra’s life from the real world through her connection to Shinra while he was
within the world of perception, Adolla? Was that just a hallucination for her Pain, did she not actually burn up?
If the answer to any of these is “no” then stop claiming I’m saying what Joker and Burns experienced is “just an illusion.” It’s a bad strawman when I never made such a claim.
I think I’ve thoroughly established my point…..but screw it
I’ll do it again:
What you’re seeing right here is the whole interaction between Sho and Shinra when he does an Adolla link with them. He literally doesn’t move from where he was in the real world. He was mentally connected to Sho through the Adolla link but remained in the real world as is consistently shown. Even the same transition the anime uses for both Shinra being possessed and for Joker and Burns’ interaction is used here in the manga. And still we clearly see Shinra remained in the real world as he was having a literal conversation with Sho within Adolla.
I also noticed how you never addressed Deceived’s argument either which was unrelated to my “mind” argument as well:
I’m not entirely sure that Adolla “physically exist” in the sense Matireya’s arguing it, it seems like (could be wrong, he’d have to explain more in-depth on what he meant) he’s arguing that Adolla exist as the “perceptions and thoughts” of the unconscious mass from an ontological level, appealing to the “reality” itself being “imaginary”. The existence of objects or entities with physicality within said dimension isn’t innate evidence against the dimension itself being “unreal” since there’s “levels of existence” to every object when examined under a metaphysical context.
For example; objects or entities can be “real” on a physical level, as in, be composed of physical matter, but be “unreal”, or have “unreal” properties on an ontological level, as in, be an “illusory” existence conceptually, fundamentally etc. So i wouldn’t necessarily say just because physical entities can exist within the dimension it means the dimension physically exists. But Maitreya also brought up the counter that these characters aren’t even physically existing within Adolla, but rather, only their mental’s are transported, which would completely counter the “physical” part of your argument if true, even disregarding my argument.
All in all, rather poor response to the arguments presented before you. Which you didn’t even address in this post.
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