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fire emblem: resistance is a thing.

Bobepipipiri

538
26
Been replaying FE7 since i got myself a cart and could get the bonus items from the mario kart bonus disk and came onto this:

From FE7 Chapter 5 tutorial:

In-game message: Magic, like Dorcas’s throwing axes, can strike enemies in adjacent squares as well as those at a distance. It’s very useful. Magic can penetrate even the strongest defenses, so it can be used in many situations. However, mages have few HP and low defensive abilities. To avoid counter-attacks, move in close to archers, and attack other fighters from 1 space away. Try and formulate combat strategies like this to be successful on the field of combat.

This is flat out durability negation with magic.

And i researched i found this other thread that was saying the same:



https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/Resistance

While a game mechanic technically, in various games, it is shown that an magical attack from a dragon or magic user targets the foe's resistance rather than their physical durability.

https://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Xenologue:_Champions_of_Yore_1_(Script)

And, while not canon (maybe), Awakening DLC has Alm say "'m not mocking you. One of my closest comrades is a woman. They say women have a high resistance to magic."

Should this make most spells negate conventional durability?

----

https://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Chapter_23:_The_Dark_Pontifex_Lives_(Script)

Marth comments on Chris's high Magical resistance on a canon game.

"Marth: Your resistance to magic is impeccable. You might just be our strongest hope of defeating Gharnef. Yes. If you are there, then... we stand to win."

Some weapon descriptions do also mention magical resistance.
-----

In short, i think every Fire Emblem character that uses magic should have DURABILITY NEGATION and every Fire Emblem Character in general should have RESISTANCE TO DURABILITY NEGATION since they all have RESISTANCE to some degree.
 
This is very stretchy to say the least and prone to NLF.

The characters are just mentioning how gameplay works, and "Penetrate the strongest defenses" is a massive reach. Physical durability and magical durability aren't different enough to warrant them not being in the same ballpark also. You also need an explanation for why an attack negates durability; ignoring a defense stat is gameplay is not enough according to DontTalkDT and several others. And also, resistance to durability negation in general is not a thing; there needs to be general categories of durability negation that they resist. For example, spatial manipulation negates durability, a character resists that and they resist spatial manipulation. But just because someone resists spatial manipulation doesn't mean they resist poison or matter manipulation and the like.

But anyway, going to have to disagree with this thread.
 
They all have resistance to magic, just on different degrees.
You also did not adress Alm's or Marth's statements, which are in character rather than a tutorial
 
Them both having resistance to magic is fine, but that's still not proof that "All magic negates durability" in the typical sense that it automatically one shots everyone less than 1-A as the default assumption.
 
It does show that FE Magic ignores physical durability up to the AP they have shown capable of delivering.

A holy tome should be comparable to a holy physical weapon, so the attack would only kill characters up to that durability.
 
In other words, it DOES bypass normal durability, but to a degree comparable to physical weapons, i do not think it could be used to kill a 1-B.
 
Some magic spells are literally just dropping a big rock on someone. Besides, "bypass the strongest defenses" definitely feels like hyperbole.
 
A MAGICAL rock. (also ignoring all the other spells for maybe one or two outliers.)
vsbw has always considered magically created objects as different from normal attacks.

That is why we do not consider all lightning magic to be the same as natural lightning.
 
It's a meteor falling from space. There's nothing magical about the meteor itself, just the fact that's being dragged down to Earth. There's absolutely no reason it should ignore durability, and the same applies to Bolting, and other sorts of elemental magic, unless we want to say Bolting and Meteor are exceptions just for the sake of being exceptions.
 
That is a big no.
Not only several items like the Pure Water in tthe GBA games and staff like Barrier exist ( Increases magic resistance of adjacent allies briefly, https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/Barrier_(Staff), in all timelines.) , using Meteor as a contradiction only applies on the Marth timeline, with nothing to really contradict it on the GBA saga.

In other words, if magic was just raw "rocks" there would be no in-lore logic for any of these items.
 
Alright, I suppose the calculation for Meteor should be removed, then?
 
Perhaps so.
Is there any evidence it comes from space within FE4 itself?

It really is not the topic of this thread.
If you disagree on resistance being a thing, you should maybe think of a reason why items specially made to rise magical resistance exist iff all magic is physical, like normal meteors from space.
 
However, if you disagree with Bolting being normal lightning, that one should be removed as well.
 
Oh yeah, sure.
I haven't looked at that calc yet, but if it considers bolting to be natural lighting instead of calcing the speed of the animation, it should be revised.
 
Anyway one thing that should be noted is that it would only negate durability to an extent as HP is also a factor in how easily magic will kill someone
 
I believe bolting has actually been described as conjuring up a storm (albeit in Sacred Stones, but should apply in other games as well since we treat spells the same across different games)

Bolganone (which is 8-A, but who cares since I'm using it as an example) is shown tearing a hole through the earth and attacking with actual magma rising through the earth (Which should honestly be earth manipulation and meteor too)

Magic has been shown to be rooted in science in-universe before, with Miriel showing how magic has actual elements in her supports. They're magically created, but they are real

Other characters also talk about magic in a scientific manner, like Erk in FE7

Since magic is known to be actual fire, wind, and electricity in canon, I don't see why meteor would be the exception

Although Durability Negation is a different story that, I'll admit, I haven't brought up yet, but I spent a good while looking through supports and animations and already wrote quite a bit, I'd just like to say I think the calcs are valid
 
I mean, if they ARE real elements, then it makes little sense for them to negate durability when they're so mundane
 
Well, there's also consistently a spiritual/mystical element to magic, so if they do negate conventional durability, it would probably be because of that
 
That doesn't really make sense to me. There is a spiritual element to it, sure, but you're still dropping a rock on people, I'd want more effective showings than a bunch of statements that reek of game mechanics to use it
 
Well, I do agree that, even outside of OP, there's more mentions of resistance in canon, but at the same time they still use real fire/lightning/wind in their attacks

I suppose you can say dark or light are different, but honestly resistance is just like special defense ala pokemon, like how Pikachu still uses real electricity
 
Tbh, while there's not much evidence for it, even light magic could be real light in canon, the animations just make it really hard to argue for it (outside of Hoarfrost, of course)
 
the tutorial also describes Erk's magic as the magic of truth.
Also light mages are clearly spiritual in nature.

Also the quotes above do imply they do not target durability.
 
Well, lightning magic has Miriel and Ricken's entire support dedicated to it, bolting acts similar to that of real lightning

What light magic has against it, however, is that it never appears to act like actual light (Aureola comes close though) and doesn't really have statements (although I will comb through supports again later, this time looking through monks and other light mages)
 
Neither does lightning. It sounds and can be seen at the same time. And bows do not explote by being fired a speeds to comparable to lightning magic.

Id say there should be some leway here because of the fantasy setting.
 
The magic spells use real elements; the speed and AP calculations are good. However, they do not negate durability. Just a heads up, there's a huge difference between durability negation and durability reduction. The only spells that actually negate durability by definition are Luna and Eclipse. Durability Negation by definition is that all 3-D characters are effected by said attack as if they have a durability of 0. This even includes human sized characters with Tier 2/1 durability unless they resist whatever hax that is that negates durability.

Simply "They use magic" is not enough to be called durability negation and we'd be doing the same thing for other RPG verses like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest if we did this to Fire Emblem. There needs to be other categories in the durability negation category such as Poison, spatial manipulation, atomic matter manipulation, ect. Fire, Ice, Lightning, Meteors, ect are not durability negation and just raw AP.
 
Yeah, it was brought up above that Luna is one of the few tomes that actually qualifies, and looking at the animation it's basically open a spatial portal to attack. So it does seem like durability negation via spatial manipulation.
 
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