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Finite Speed? That's Small Time! (Modern Base Sonic Speed CRT)
- Thread starter CloverDragon03
- Start date
- Status
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If it hasn’t been added yet, the numerous instances of Eggman piloting machines and controlling their movements to react to super form level threats, along with Sage doing the same thing with Supreme, I believe should be further credence. The only time in recent memory I recall super forms blitzing base forms was IDW with giant Zavok, but that can just be grounds for downscaling or Zavok’s size making him more cumbersome.
Also Frontiers Sonic is currently accepted to upscale Double Boost, and if people want to argue that escaping Null Space is a dimensional travel feat, Sonic later outpaces the same energy used by the Phantom Ruby in its attacks, and since the Ruby uses a universal energy system, it should be able to attack at the same speed as its dimension creation speed, which is infinite speed.
Moreover, base sonic also has a feat in Shuffle where he travels to the center of 4th dimension space, an infinite speed feat due to 4-D space being infinite size.
Also Frontiers Sonic is currently accepted to upscale Double Boost, and if people want to argue that escaping Null Space is a dimensional travel feat, Sonic later outpaces the same energy used by the Phantom Ruby in its attacks, and since the Ruby uses a universal energy system, it should be able to attack at the same speed as its dimension creation speed, which is infinite speed.
Moreover, base sonic also has a feat in Shuffle where he travels to the center of 4th dimension space, an infinite speed feat due to 4-D space being infinite size.
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I think Infinite, Possibly Higher would work
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He does, though. The Double Boost blitzes and destroys him. The same happens with Infinite, too.
Ghengiroo115
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They don’t get blitzed, they’re just not fast enough to outrun the Double Boost. It takes around 3 seconds for Sonic and the Avatar to catch Metal Sonic and Infinite in their fights.
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Sonic crossing 4-D space is probably enough to make the SR feat consistent even without double boost.
I’d also argue base forms scaling to super forms in speed is extremely consistent.
I’d also argue base forms scaling to super forms in speed is extremely consistent.
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Agree with infinite speed, although with immeasurable I feel like it would kind of be weird for Sonic to be the same tier of speed as his Super form at full power, considering narratively the Super forms are unquantifiable boosts. Of course you can go deeper into immeasurable but I feel like the Wyvern feat is invalid for that reason.
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They can't dodge it, nor counter it with any moves. All they can is try to block it, which fails. It clearly shows superiority to Sonic's regular speed.
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I have some doubts about it, he could have cut track with the portals for the Astral Plane
I agree with "possibly Infinite"
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That's also a question that I was having in mind, 'does he upscale from double boost or not', earlier. Could I see where that was accepted at? Or if possible, summarized.
That is also.. interesting. First time I'm really hearing that at all for an infinite speed argument rather than just cosmology purposes.
Ghengiroo115
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Metal Sonic and Infinite being able to even attempt to try and get away (and for 3 whole seconds no less) shows that it isn’t an infinitely greater boost in speed or anything. Obviously it’s faster than Sonic’s regular speed, but he should downscale from it.
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- Thread starter
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I’ll note this down once I update the tally with everyone’s votes. Although, this demonstrably isn’t the case as seen in the gameplay
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You are right about this. Still, I don't feel comfortable with directly scaling Sonic to a technique that makes him far faster than his base self, which is why I would rather the it be "possibly infinite".
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in forces maybe, but in Frontiers he is above it already, so it doesn't matter much
Ghengiroo115
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That’s fair I suppose
ShakeResounding
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Bro's insane. Considering I was aware of this and DDM summoned me as well, I'll respond now that I have the chance.
Okay, so I actually agree that this is somewhat plainly Immeasurable but I believe it should be a separate and conditional speed rating. Main reason is because it would rely first and foremost on time being erased, as it was Sonic's speed that was having an effect on an erased reality rather than one that's intact. Sonic's speed obviously isn't always forcing time to accelerate, otherwise he'd be accelerating the world around him to death lmao.
Secondly is, as mentioned by User, Classic Sonic being able to perform this feat as well. One could logically then try and jump to applying "fastest than he's ever been" sort of statements to justify all of the verse being Immeasurable.
Most of the Immeasurable stuff relies on Titan scaling, which in general makes me uneasy even if it does align with our stats, and the one straight Immeasurable feat he does have is conditional (though legit). But overall, I think there's enough here that Infinite speed is solid with mentions of the SR feat and Double Boost upscaling (if that's still deemed valid once this is over). Unsure if it should be under a possibly rating or not.
As User said, this is a pretty plainly valid feat but acknowledging and refuting the Purple Maelstrom stuff would be necessary since that's a common misconception. Maybe a note on Sonic's profile, one of those reference-styled ones with an explanation.
Okay, so I actually agree that this is somewhat plainly Immeasurable but I believe it should be a separate and conditional speed rating. Main reason is because it would rely first and foremost on time being erased, as it was Sonic's speed that was having an effect on an erased reality rather than one that's intact. Sonic's speed obviously isn't always forcing time to accelerate, otherwise he'd be accelerating the world around him to death lmao.
Secondly is, as mentioned by User, Classic Sonic being able to perform this feat as well. One could logically then try and jump to applying "fastest than he's ever been" sort of statements to justify all of the verse being Immeasurable.
We currently accept Double Boost upscaling so if that persists, it could help. But it actually helps to have it even if only for the Double Boost.
... Yeah I got nothing to say. This always boggled me. I wanna point my finger and call outlier but bro was really reacting to the Titans in his Base for like a third of the story encounters lol.
I want to chalk this up to authors just really noy understanding the implications of the speed difference that should be between Sage and Supreme End, but I know that's not an actual argument against it.
Most of the Immeasurable stuff relies on Titan scaling, which in general makes me uneasy even if it does align with our stats, and the one straight Immeasurable feat he does have is conditional (though legit). But overall, I think there's enough here that Infinite speed is solid with mentions of the SR feat and Double Boost upscaling (if that's still deemed valid once this is over). Unsure if it should be under a possibly rating or not.
- For Modern and Classic Sonic I would propose "[Normal speed ratings]. Immeasurable by accelerating in erased time"
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Not as if they're moving at speeds that they are when fighting super sonic all the time, yeah?
Ghengiroo115
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Would this any other character or just the Sonics? It’s done through raw speed and Classic Sonic scales slower than the rest of the cast. If it’s just based on travel speed then (if I’m not mistaken) Metal, Shadow, Blaze, Infinite and maybe Silver would scale at the very least.
ShakeResounding
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Sonic's speed is something special, as it can do things like remove the Metal Virus when others (such as Shadow) are just as fast if not with techniques that make them conditionally FASTER. But both that and this are associated with "Sonic's speed" in particular.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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I disagree with backscaling Sonic to the titans, as they're able to consistently keep up with Super Sonic at his strongest
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yeah I don't think that's about to so casually work, no.
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Damn, I thought i did a big brain moment ;-;
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What are your thoughts on Shuffle Sonic flying to the center of 4-D space as an infinite feat?
As well as Sonic in Forces without DB outspeeding energy from the PR against DER, which would potentially put him above the speed the PR can generate energy (generation speed being infinite cuz of the dimension)
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This sort of thing really is interesting cause I do think at least a 'possibly infinite' speed rating could be made if not likely because of secret rings, upscaling from double boost (like JJ said earlier, would still like to see the thread it was accepted at tysm), and depending on how that apparent feat from sonic shuffle goes.
Though speaking of, isn't it Illumina that's helping sonic and the rest fly in the cutscenes? Haven't played it but I do remember seeing something like that.
Though speaking of, isn't it Illumina that's helping sonic and the rest fly in the cutscenes? Haven't played it but I do remember seeing something like that.
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helping someone fly does not mean it is going to increase your movement speed (also illumina is supposed to be slower than sonic)
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by the way,i still dislike how this wiki threads time travel with ''Faster than light''thing.
because,let me be honest,it is better to just make it immeasurable speed anyway,you are still moving in time,you are not moving a great distance in short time or something like that
because,let me be honest,it is better to just make it immeasurable speed anyway,you are still moving in time,you are not moving a great distance in short time or something like that
G33kedzinx
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I agree with infinite speed.
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Of course I know that much, but sonic can't really fly on his own in base, no? Always thought it's Illumina's power allowing him to do so (in that game) and Sonic along with the others are flying behind just to follow them yeah?
Besides, flying to the CENTER of 4-D space feels like it'd have more contention than flying to the edge of said infinite (like sonic would do with running with double boost in null space).
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that still does not mean he does not scale in speed
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Sonic later keeps up with Void’s second form in combat, so he would still scale (plus Lumina doesn’t really have any supreme physical prowess given her complete inability to stop Void on her own)
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We treat Time Travel through Physical movement as Immeasurable speed, we only treat it as FTL when the verse specifies
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and that is a problem because that is not how FTL works,FTL is going faster than light,not going so fast you time travel even when they say ''go faster than light''the mechanics of that don't even work for it to be FTL at all.
or are you gonna tell me a FTL character with time travel is slower than a MFTL character,when the first one can just speedblitz him before he reacts,he is still traveling in time after all,there is no difference between that and the other
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What? In our world, when you go faster than light you will Time Travel, so go faster than It is a FTL feat
A FTL character ins't even 15x the speed of light
A MFTL is more than 100x the speed of light
It's pretty obvious who would speedblitz who
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that is in theory,there is nothing confirmed yet (and even if it is,it will still be higher than just traveling distance over time)
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but i am reffering to the fact that there is speed are still related to distance over time,when you time travel,regardless if it is FTL or not,it should just put you above those levels,because you are moving in time,not in distance over a time
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