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Final Fantasy VII Revised Profiles Proposal

Okay, update:

  • Fixed the red links in Aerith's profile. The remaining red links in other blogs (such as Cid) are because the characters they should link to don't have a proper profile made yet in the site. Also fixed the red links regarding Regenerationn Negation and Automatic Healing in the profiles as I finally could get the scana ans vid for those.
  • Changed Aerith's Avatar Creation to "possibly" as she wondered if she could do it, but didn't attempt to.
  • Changed Aerith's Telepathy to her Mortal key, as she could communicate that way in the original game.
  • Everyone got resistance to Radiation and Heat due to withstanding the Supernova. As I found out, Supernovas lightyears away can be lethally radioactive to life.
  • Updated the Corruption resistance entry for everyone, based on Jenova's virus and the Makonoid mutation.
  • Sephiroth got Heat and Radiation Manipulation via his own Supernova.
  • Added an explanation for Tifa's Yeah! Critical Hits
  • Added the Premium Heart and HP Shout to Tifa and Cait Sith's Power and Abilities Section.
  • Added Non-Physical Interaction and Regen Negation to Cait Sith, I had missed those.
  • Rewrote Cloud's character description following the story of his fake persona, thought it would be amusing.
  • Jenova got Resistance to Cosmic Radiation, Cold and Heat. The former two due to travelling through the conditions of outer space, the latter due to enduring the meteor impact on her arrival apparently no worse for wear.
  • Fixed more typos.
  • Added Bahamut SIN to Cloud's profile, as I found that the Materia is indeed his and is confirmed in Staff Commentary and the Reunion Files.
  • Fixed Nanaki's stamina which accidentally listed Barret's description and added his Berserk issues to his weaknesses.
  • Added a summary for Sephiroth given the older one was a copy/paste from his FFWiki description. Though, perhaps I made Sephiroth look too much like a poor victim.
  • While Sephiroth's description is much longer, cleaned up his Power and Abilities and techniques section to make it more concise.
  • Renamed Sephiroth's first key in his abilities as "Pre-Fall to the Lifestream" and added "possibly Levitation" to it because of this. Not unlikely he had some Jenova abilities since the beginning.
  • Added Sephy slaying Ifrit as more backup for his Fire Resistance.
  • While he did use Teleport and maybe Levitation back in Crisis Core (and I added it to that key) I mentioned it's most likely due to Jenova's abilities manifesting in him, as she also has those abilities.
  • Added Sephy being unaffected by Mind Blow as backup for his resistance to Energy Manipulation. I'd like to be more specific on it though, but can't find a subcategory for it. It's not like Sephy resists energy altogether, rather Depletion and being struck from inside,
  • Added the Reunion to Sephy's profile
  • Added the Ultimania link mentioning how Jenova's Body was mostly lost in the original game, backing up their Regenerationn negation for the party's profiles.
  • Added a minor link to using Magic Counter + Cure3 to show it can be used for healing as well.
  • Changed Tifa's profile pic for her Dissidia NT render.
  • Cloud, Tifa, Sephiroth, Nanaki, Cid Yuffie and Vincent got Acrobatics
  • Added another scan about Jenova's intelligence.
Honestly want to make a case for the party resisting Holy Manipulation due to being unaffected by the Lifestream and Cloud confirming the Planet in itself has holy properties, but the inconsistent interactions with the Holy Attribute gameplay wise makes it awkward to move the resistance to the natural abilities.
 
Aaaaaaaaaand, tis' done!

Updated the pages of the characters and added the profiles of those who didn't have one. Thanks to Dark649, Ogurtsow and Skylietz for correcting issues in the profiles and cleaning them up (there were quite a bit of screw ups I had missed >_>;)

Still have work to do with Vincent, as I am undergoing a playthrough of Dirge of Cerberus to polish his profile, but that would be the only thing left.

@Arkham: Thanks, dude. It was a lot of work, but honestly I had a lot of fun doing all of this, the research and revisiting the games.
 
Only flaw I noticed was the summaries were too long tbh. Prom fixed Sephy's thankfully.
 
Heh, thank you! I'm a honored actually.

Another thing I'm working on right now that I plan to link to in all the profiles is a Blog that explains in detail the key concepts of the VII verse and how the relate to the characters' powers, Spirit Energy, Lifestream, Magic and all that. So that it can clear up doubts on the more obtuse aspects.

Totally stole the idea from Cal's blog on Arceus and Gold Experience Requiem's explanation of Return to Zero XD
 
I have been meaning to ask, but shouldn't Cloud have a AC key? He soloed a stronger version of Sephy compared to game Cloud who needed the whole gang to beat a weaker Sephy
 
ZERO7772 said:
I have been meaning to ask, but shouldn't Cloud have a AC key? He soloed a stronger version of Sephy compared to game Cloud who needed the whole gang to beat a weaker Sephy
Click to expand...
The AC director confirmed Sephy was "no where near full power" plus this is further proved in film when Tifa said "That time we fought Sephiroth, we all had that feeling and it looks like Cloud has regained it".
 
Really? Last time I checked AC Sephy was the strongest one but lost due to usual "Oh he was playing around too much"

Most of the party are fodders in AC for one reason or another so it doesn't matter. Cloud was dying for 90% of the movie and he was still better than them put togthere "except Vincent"
 
@Axiom: Truth to be told, I haven't been able to find a source for that quote. I've seen it around, but without explaining where it was stated. Not saying it's false or anything, but if it can be tracked down it could be a huge help.

@Zero: As much as I hate to admit it (because I really want to think of Cloud as Sephy's equal), Cloud indeed won by CIS on Sephiroth's part, the Reunion Files and the AC Staff Commentary confirm Sephy took it easy on Cloud, and On the Way to Smile - Episode Lifestream give the in-story reason on why Sephiroth was obsessed with trolling Cloud rather than finishing him off.

This is the reason why I didn't give him a proper Advent Children key and instead he's the only one that gets and additional key based on his Limit Breaks (Vincent aside, given Chaos is essentially a Super Mode). I really don't have much evidence to say Cloud at base was on a league on his own compared to his friends given how messy the scaling is in AC due to all the ups and downs, and on his own he was outmatched against Sephy, but it doesn't change that his Limit Breaks did defeat this new more powerful Sephiroth (and to a lesser extent, how it one-shotted Bahamut SIN when his regular attacks were as ineffective as his friend's)
 
Cloud may be inferior to Syphy "I hope remark change that" but it's pretty obvious he's way stronger than any party member not named Vincent by AC. Like, you can't seriously tell me Tifa is comparable to Cloud in any sense when she was beaten by Casual Loz and Cloud fend off 2 of the remnants in his weakened state. Cloud existence also turned the the tides almost immediately against SIN. He also consistently shrugged off many attacks that were shown to be vital for other party member, like diving into SIN big blast.

I get your points though, I guess no much point in giving him AC key and his limit breaks are indeed OP compare to his base.
 
I'd really like to make a case for AC Cloud being stronger than he was in FFVII, but I need to ask a bit more about it, to be honest. Even if he is much stronger than his teammates, I seriously don't think the rest are fodder compared to how Cloud was back in FFVII, they did fought together against Sephiroth and all that.

However, so far given how obtuse the high and low ends are in AC, it's pretty tricky. If Cloud had won againt Sephy fair and square we could say with certainty that he's on a new level compared to VII, but Sephy lost due to arrogance, so Cloud's own full power becomes unclear. Tifa and the others did become weaker, and Tifa got stomped by Loz, but exactly how does Loz compare to Sephiroth? He is a representation of his might, but to how extent? When he was a mortal? Other form? Even Vincent isn't safe from it, wen you consider it Vincent's gunfire did force Kadaj to go on the defensive and fall back but it was still ineffective against Bahamut SIN.

Honestly, I did believe Cloud without geostigma was around the same level as he was in the original game, the others were weaker compared to that, but I am not so sure anymore. One thing I still believe is that they must have been comparable when they fought Safer Sephiroth, but that changed in AC.

What we do more or less get more clearly is that Cloud's Limit Breaks do have the most explosive power boost of the group.
 
Tbh AC would be much more reliable at scaling characters than game since it's a movie and they are not bond by gameplay mechanic just to make everyone stay relevant

I was just refering to Tifa being stomped by Loz since you said "there is no way to know Cloud base is a leuge of his own" when it's pretty obvious a character like Tifa was outmatched by casual Loz who is weaker than even geostigma Cloud.

Bahamut SIN barely received any damage from anyone before Cloud started limit breaking and stomping him into the grould. Either SIN is THAT strong or Cloud's limit Break power boost is ridiculous
 
Could be reliably on its own, but juggling it with the original game, and scaling to characters from before makes it more complicated.

When I mentioned that I meant compared to the characters at their peak back in the original game., though, and not exactly there's no way of knowing, simply that I feel I don't have enough evidence to make the assertion given the mix of elements playing with the powers. But, as I meantioned earlier, I am not so sure anymore about it.

I think that's something that ca be taken with a degree of certainty. Cloud was still weakened by Geostigma, his normal attacks barely made Bahamut flinch yet Braver and Climhazzard worked wonders. Also, though Kadaj could properly parry Cloud's attacks, Finishing Touch did easily bust through his guard and disarm him. So we can see Clouds LB actually do give a great boost. Not too out there, in the original game the tutorials do openly mention the Limit Breaks allow to reach "unimaginable power".
 
Keep in mind that Cloud was STILL weakened by Geostigma even when he stomped SIN with limit breaks. IIRC Barret used limit break on the beast but it didn't do much.

I think an AC key for Cloud would be fine.
 
If you rewatch the final fight Syphy actually praise Cloud mid-way through the fight and ask him "where did you get that power" indicating that he is indeed much stronger than he was in the game. Sephy was also helpless against Cloud the moment he dropped his guard down he got destroyed by Cloud's greatest limit break.

I think you are downplaying Cloud too much. He stomps anyone not named Syphy "and maybe Chaos".
 
Cloud is weaker than Sephiroth overall, and he manage to beat Sephiroth after using his limit breaks. But he's undoubtedly stronger than he was in FFVII. And at the very least, Cloud should be above the 3.108 Megafoe calc; and Sephy especially would be well above that.
 
Yeah, I had forgotten Sephiroth said that. While the tone is of amusement, it does sound genuine.

"I think you are downplaying Cloud too much."

D'oh! To think I actually fell into that, lol. But I guess you're right. I'm being too nitpicky about proof for little reason when a case can be reasonably done.

@Medeus: Alright, good to have additional input.

I'll get to work on it.

EDIT: Added the AC Key for Cloud. More precisely merged the Limit Break key with the AC stuff and made a new one. It's a bit rough and long, but it's a start. I'll polish it in a bit.
 
So a few things:

-Cloud and Vincent got Enhanced Awareness and Reflexes (under Enhanced Senses). In Cloud's case thanks to quick reactions in AC, casually avoiding Reno's ambush and dodging Yazoo's surprise shot, in the dark, when he was talking with Aerith's spirit. In Vincent's case, he always avoids getting snuck on and he can easily tell when he's being targeted by snipers and shoot them down.

-Vincent got Homing Attack in his Beast Flare from Dirge of Cerberus. Also added he can willfully cancel his transformations like in that game.

-Started collecting info on the Tsviets to make profiles for Azul, Rosso, Nero and Shelke as well. I think I'll go the full way and cover the entire compilation, rework the profiles of Crisis Core as well.

On a more important note, but not a certain one: while looking around found scans of the Ultimania Omega describing the Supernova, and they openly state that it covers the entire Solar System. The current calc is considered using an explosion that reaches Jupiter. I asked in the Calc Request Thread for a calculation to see what comes up. It's not gonna lead to a tier change or anything like that, but if it's accepted then it would bump the cast quite a bit further in the 4-B.
 
Small update in the meanwhile, reworked the profiles of the Ultimate Weapo, Ruby Weapo and Emerald Weapo, because why not. I thought it would take just little bit but it took me four days >_>

Working on Diamond and Sapphire (the smug one that gets his head blasted off) in the meanwhile. Omega and Chaos may get their own profiles depending on how things turn out in DoC or be integrated for Vincent and Weiss as they are already. Jade Weapon will have to wait until Before Crisis.
 
Alright, another update:

-Made profiles for the two missing Weapons of the original game: Diamond Weapo and Sapphire Weapo.

-And one that was long overdue: The three pretty stooges the Remnants of Sephiroth: Kadaj, Yazoo and Loz.

-Also updated the Knights of the Round profile.

I couldn't find any good renders of the Sapphire Weapon that showed his design in detail, nor for the Remnants of Sephiroth, so I had to use the best illustrations I could find. I apologize for that.

EDIT:

Several notes for future things:

-There's a novel called Final Fantasy VII The Kids Are Alright: A Turks Side Story and I recently found out that it's a prequel to Advent Children and Kadaj is the main antagonist. So he'll most likely have a few revisions in the future.

-Almost done with Dirge of Cerberus, but still have to check out Lost Episode and the story of the Online Mode. Surprisingly, Vincent doesn't get that many changes aside some stuff related to Chaos which isn't that much (so far, at least). Alredy working on the profiles of the other Tsviets: Shelke, Azul, Rosso and Nero.

-Discussed with other users and decided to include The Maiden who Travels the Planet so there will be a few changes, especially for Aerith.

-A change of plan, instead of going to Before Crisis, once done with DoC I will be covering Crisis Core to update Zack, Genesis, Angeal and Minerva. Will also make a proper page for Bahamut Fury, as is thanks to him that most of the scaling in FFVII exists to begin with.
 
So, almost done with Dirge of Cerberus. In the meanwhile, there's some important stuff. I revised Cloud, Tifa and Sephiroth's profiles (the former two are also the mainframe to tweak the rest of the cast), alongside some rewritting and clean-up of redundant or confusing parts.

Things haven't been applied yet, they are in the Cloud, Tifa and Sephiroth blog for now.

There were a lot of changes and are as follow (sorry for the long post):

Everyone's Changes:
*Thanks to Mr. Bambu the Supernova got a boost. The output is still 4-B, but went from 3 to 178 MegaFoe.
1. Aside Resistance to Mind Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Matter Manipulation and Deconstruction being able to enter the Lifestream without problems also translates into resistance to Biological and Soul Absorption, as well as Memory Manipulation.

  • This has to do with the process itself when a living being falls into the Lifestream: the Lifestream takes in the physical body -> proceeds to diffuse and disintegrate the physical matter leaving the spirit (which includes the body and soul) -> the emotions, memories and thoughts, erasing all sense of self and leaving just the pure Spirit Energy (which is no longer a proper soul, as all traces of a self are gone, it's just raw life force) -> then absorbs in its stream the Spirit Energy, effectively making the Lifestream grow.
The Lifestream itself is not so much a current of souls as much a current of "life force" that contains knowledge and memories of all the souls that have returned to it after death. But due to the process of assimilation described above, the energy that returns doesn't have individuality to be called a soul as we commonly imagine them (it also makes Mako extraction slightly less horrorific), and while the Lifestream re-allocates Spirit Energy to create new life, it's not proper reincarnation.

Also worth noting are two things: first, give how this process has been going since life was born on the Planet, the "weight" of the Lifestream on the soul and mind of the characters could well be in the hundreds of billions. Second, the resistance to Corruption comes from simple exposure to Spirit Energy, as simple contact can lead to adverse effects:

  • If you are exposed to Spirit Energy for too long, the knowledge contained in it will overwhelm your mind and this will shatter, giving you Mako Poisoning -> If the exposure is prolongued even further, you turn into a Makonoid, the monsters Sephiroth and Zack saw within the Nibelheim reactor. This is also the cause of monsters in the wild, be it to natural Spirit Energy springs or Shinra dumping their crap somewhere.
2. Everyone gets Immortality Negation (of Types 2, 3, 6 and 7) due to being able to destroy Jenova's body permanently, and 7 due to being able to permanently kill the Gi Tribe Spectres who remain as ghosts unable to rest in Cosmo Canyon due to their grudges.

3. Added a Tab for equipment, it doesn't add anything new, but decided to put their Ultimate Weapons and the Ribbon here for a matter of order.

4. At first I had my doubts on this one, but decided to give everyone resistance to Power Absorption and Power Mimicry, as Limit Breaks cannot be imitated due to being dependant on the user's Spirit Energy. I am aware of Zack's case, but he is acknowledged as an unique case and he doesn't straight up copy the Limit Breaks of others, rather creates a variant based on them which is more of an adaptation with his own Spirit Energy. This only applies to Limit Breaks, though, Magic, Commands and Summons can be copied or stolen (but not quite nullified as explained below)

5. Due to the nature of the Silence and Frog status, which effectively block different abilities of the target, the Ribbon and Added Effect Materia also protect from Power Nullification.

6. The Pre-Emptive Materia translates into Enhanced Awareness and Stealth by allowing to sneak on enemies but also prevent the enemies from being attacked by surprise.


Cloud's's Changes:
Aside his AC Key, made an AC tab for his abilities and feats in AC. Most notably:
1. His Regenerationn Negation goes to Low-Godly, due to being able to permanently kill Sephiroth (explanation the Regenerationn in Sephy's section below). While Sephy did give the "I will never be a memory" line and all, his influence was gone after his defeat, allowing Aerith to cleanse Geostigma with Great Gospel. Otherwise it would raise the question on why she didn't intervene before in those two years when Geostigma caused so much damage.

2. Also gets Type 1, 4 and 8 Immortality Negation due to being able to kill Sephiroth.

3. Added Dual Wielding. This is for two reasons: one, many assume Cloud always fight in his Buster Sword style (especially given in crossovers they make him so for balance and because it's his more iconic style) and two, Cloud actually performs a lot better when dual wielding, in his final battle with Kadaj, the Remnant was handling himself rather well until Cloud started to dual wield, after that Cloud casually smacked him around.

4. Added Afterimage Creation, nothing major, but Omnislashes V5 and 6 do it.

5. Mentioned how his power increase with his Limit Breaks has become pretty drastic and allow to one-shot enemies, such as Bahamut SIN, who otherwise can take his regular attacks with no problems.


Sephiroth's Changes:
1. Edited the explanation of his stats to mention the new Supernova calc, and expanded it a bit.
2. Removed the Materia Emulation tabs. To be blunt, I can't find any proof that Sephiroth has actually assimilated the effects of every Materia in existence. There are many mentions of how he absorbed large amounts of knowledge from the Lifestream, but nothing indicates he became one with it or anything similar. Actually, it's the opposite: in the temple of the Ancients when he explains his plan regarding Meteor what he says is that he "plans" to become one with the Lifestream and rule every soul, which is why he wants to wound the Planet with Meteor and absorb the Spirit Energy used by it to heal the wound, it's something he hasn't achieve but plans to. He also mentions becoming a [traveler] of the Lifestream, becoming superior to the Cetra (Cetra and Ancients are the same thing) by gaining their knowledge and those who lived after... which indeed supports his new abilities, but it comes directly at odds with his plan described previously (if he was one with the Lifestream, why need to absorb that much Spirit Energy via the injury), and while the Cetra did know how to use the powers of the planet... there isn't quite any statement or proof that they could use every power the Planet ever had all we're told is they had a connection and used its powers. There's also the issue how On the Way to a Smile - Episode: Barret both Barret and Cid comment how the power of the Lifestream itself was beyond anything they had seen before, which lends credence to why Sephiroth wanted to absorb it to begin with. The Materia emulation doesn't have a strong enoug basis so I decided to take it out.

3. Like Jenova he has Immortality (Types 2, 3 and 6) thanks to being able to use the Reunion and essentially being able to enforce his will through any fragment of the body to create a new main body.

4. While he lost the Materia Emulation, thus the access to Added Effect and Elemental, his resistance to Elemental Manipulation and Status Effect Inducement can be chalked to Adaptation which he shares with Jenova (it's not quite Reactive Evolution, though, Sephy and Jenova don't grow stronger as they fight, more like they slowly adapt to new threats as they evolve).

5. I was on the fence to what exactly this one counts as, but decided to leave as Sealing his ability to block external influences, energies and power sources. Reason is simply that whatever he blocks doesn't cease to be, it's simply held at bay until Sephy is defeated (such as what happened with Holy and her influence in Advent Children).

6. The Pocket Dimension for the Supernova now became a mix of Limited Dimensional Travel|Pocket Reality Manipulation given the rather vague nature of the realm, but with other users, it's more or less considered that the user creates said realm. This abilities are what protect him from BFR via Remove now, adjusting to lore the resistance.

7. Advent Children nets him Immortality (Types 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 8) and Regenerationn (Low-High to Low-Godly). It's a strange mic, but... while his physical body normally has Low-High regen due to requiring Jenova Cells, his spirit can remain active without issues, separate from the Lifestream, even if he's killed, with which he can still extend his influence and stage a Resurrection (also added). Cloud killing him for good means he bypassed this and forced his spirit to return to the Lifestream, which would make sense, given that it wasn't until Sephiroth's defeat that Aerith could step in and heal the Geostigma, and Sephy could interact with Aerith in the Lifestream.

8. Also, a case could be made for Mid-Godly, as he states that with just a memory of him, he could come back even if his spirit was effectively gone. However, I found the backup of this too vague so I prefer to stick to Low-Godly.

9. Added Non-Corporeal and Inorganic Physiology, however regarding the latter... can it be applied to what's mostly a spiritual being? Or it's just meant for robots, animated objects and the such.

10. His resistances were added to their own Tab to organize them better. Added Resistance to Telekinesis, Illusion Creation (scaling from Jenova's abilities) and Information Analysis (tied that Sephiroth can't be Sensed to the lore behind Jenova's eldritch nature and Sephiroth's ascension being "beyond" the mortal realm, which was a big point for developers especially in AC).

11. Changed his resistance to Energy Manipulation to a limited one, given he doesn't resist it altogether, but can endure some effects of it.

12. Added resistance to Power Absorption due to his magic and abilities, like Limit Breaks now are ingrained to his Spirit Energy, aka mind and soul, no longer requiring external sources. However, they can still be copied (some of them at least) so no resistance to Power Mimicry

13. Added Resistance to Disease Manipulation and Biological Manipulation due to no longer having a proper biological body, but still having the few cells that work as anchors (hence not a full immunity, though Jenova has one hell of an immune system).
 
Thanks guys! Will keep working hard. Added the changes to the profiles proper.

Finally finished DoC so Vincent is receiving some updates now. While still gotta cover Lost Episode and the Online Mode... finally I can move to Crisis Core.

I forgot to mention one detail, I moved the list detailing the Materia obtained through the story to the Equpment section so it's easier to come across.
 
From what I've getting there's rumor of a Demon being released, I don't know much else on that front. Gamescom will have around 70 booths, so at least someone will be slipping footage this time around >=) I think Gamescom will reveal the next batch of news.

On another note, finally done with DoC, tweaking Vincent's profile now and making the missing Tsviets. Will post the updates around this next weekend.

EDIT: That would be amazing. We should probably take this conversation to Pachi's new thread, though.
 
Since you are down with DoC, who is stronger in your opinion? AC Cloud or Choas Vincent?

I would assume Cloud get even stronger by the time DoC events tooks place, but he barely have any screen time.
 
Yeah, done... nnnooooot my cup if tea. At first I was enjoying the game, but it got tedious and repetitive rather quickly, and the story was... pretty bad IMO, tons of retcons, unexplored and rushed plot points, underdeveloped characters and relationships, botched character writing (the games tries to make you feel bad for Lucrecia and Shelke, but fails big time), a truckload of over the top hollywood melodrama, anime clichés completely got out of hand since VII, Squeenix had taken the Kingdom Hearts approach of having confusing and convoluted twists around, expecting to find reports or watch side episodes and materials to understand the basic plot (KH at least was an ongoing story), Yuffie was stripped of her skills and reduced to simple comic relief, Hojo was a caricature of a kid's show evil scientist. The music was great, though (Gackt's song absolutely kicked ass), the VA were also pretty good, you can tell they got used to their characters since AC, and presentation, as usual, was stunning. But that's my issue with the Compilation in general... All flash, little substance. I mean, there are good ideas but aren't taken advantage of and all seems to run on "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if this happened?! It's not consistent with the established lore? Pfft, screw dat!" It's a nice spectacle, but if you get past the presentation it's pretty shallow.

Sorry, got off topic, but just sharing thoughts here.
 
IMO I liked Yuffie in this. I mean, her character was always a comic relife and barely had any ties to the main story beside being a tag along for the group.

No comment on Lucrecia.... I REALLY didn't like her character.
 
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