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DarkDragonMedeus

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Alright, this has been long overdue and the plans have been their for over a year now. But it's been discussed here with the details.

The first thing to get out of the way would be the Four Fiends: Lich (Final Fantasy I), Marilith (Final Fantasy I), Kraken (Final Fantasy I), and Tiamat (Final Fantasy I). First of all, it's noted by Everlasting and Matt that the calcs here are heavily lowballed. And this is especially true in regards to the statements regarding Marilith and Kraken. "The Seas Rage" may sound generic but it's literally stated in his profile he can cover the entire planet in a great flood. Marilith is also stated to be capable of burning the surface of the Earth to ashes. Which would essentially be a surface wiping feat in both regards. And the other 4 fiends should be comparable regardless, especially with Tiamat being the strongest. So High 6-A for the Four Fiends. They are also missing abilities and may need second keys that are even stronger than previous forms.

For the main event, there's Chaos and the four out of six chose warriors of light. They are to be Low 2-C and Immeasurable as stated by Everlasting, Reppuzan, and Matthew Schroeder; and based on two reasons. The main reason would be based on the protagonists who fought and defeated Chronodia; an entity who's described as being merged with Time or is literally the embodiment of time. This was the primary reason for Immeasurable speed, but Low 2-C also comes from other sources. She's stronger than Chaos, Feral Chaos, Omega (Final Fantasy) and Shinryu. Chaos/Garland has created the endless time loop that could only be broken by the 4 Warriors of Light. And Shinryu was also the one who created the entire realm of Dissidia and was the one who gave Feral Chaos his power. There was also context regarding Cosmos (Dissidia Final Fantasy) as well as the embodiments of their will Materia and Spiritus who created a universe by warping the fabric of time and space according to Everlasting.

As for Garland's base form and the speed ratings of those who aren't Tier 2, they do seem a bit vague. Large Building level via being more than a match for the Cornerian army sounds a bit vague. Him being stronger than Earth Vampires who can destroy large chapels makes more sense, but I see no calc. But Chapels aren't really High 8-C at best 8-C. And as for Nitro Powder, the Island level+ calc is legit, but it's not known how much of it was used. And while it is said to be used for defence purposes, have they ever used it in their cannons and in turn fired it at Garland? Seems a bit vague and maybe the reason they did not use it too nuke Garland's castle was because they didn't want to harm or kill Princess Sara by accident. So not sure if I would use it for scaling; open to thoughts about how strong his base key would be though. I was told speed ratings would be Unknow since we can't really backwards scale Tier 8 and 6 characters from Tier 2 ones; especially true in Garland's case. Nor does it make sense to scale from other optional bosses such as Gilgamesh.

Edit: Apparently, all it was was a wee bit of Nitro Powder than did the Island level+ feat. And the entire Cornerian army literally had whole bunches of it at their disposal, which it's stated in game that even that's completely worthless against Garland. So if anything, maybe the low end might need to be removed and the 6-C rating could stay and he could possibly be above that.

So in conclusion, Four Fiends are High 6-A. Protagonists, Chaos, and Superbosses are Low 2-C and Immeasurable. Unsure about Garland's base tier, but speed for the others are Unknow.

Note: High 6-A Fiends are taken care of, as is Base Garland's backward scaled speed; the obvious stuff. And Everlasting said he'd prefer to put Tier 2 and Immeasurable on hold until he gets more info on Dissidia. But they should happen eventually.
 
Nice, this has taken way too long to be made.

As for base Galard, i really don't remember any great feats from him, but it has been a while since i've seen FF 1.

I agree with everything either way.
 
High 6-A for the four fiends seems fine. I am neutral for the end game protagonists, chaos etc being Low 2-C

Preferably considering the pocket dimension is a high end for the verse, I would be more comfortable with 'Likely Low 2-C'. and keep the 5-A low end.

But it seems fine at least fundamentally.
 
Everlasting and Matt seem to say the FF1 cast and Dissidia god tiers are Low 2-C, obviously occurring characters such as Gilgamesh will not scale. And other characters from other games who fights Feral Chaos, Shinryu, or Omega will be disregarded as PIS. But thanks for input; still needs more input though. And I personally prefer more elaborate sources which I'm still looking for, but I do trust judgement from all those people.
 
I'd rather create a key for Dissidia Shinryu because it has shown a very different powerlevel from the other incarnations.
 
I may be wrong on it, but didn't the heroes stand a chance against Chaos thanks to holding their crystals which had a fragment of Cosmos' power?

Can't really speak for them beating Shinryu in NT, though.

Medeus, sources on what are you looking for exactly? Perhaps I can help with that
 
Dissidia Shinryu is the same one from Final Fantasy V actually, and is said to be much stronger than the base forms of Enuo and Exdeath; but no one scales from the Void. And it wasn't entirely agreed for Bartz to scale from Shinryu or Omega.
 
Should probably have waited a bit before making this as Ever, me and a few others were working on some massive Final Fantasy revisions. The stuff about the Fiends seem perfectly fine though.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Dissidia Shinryu is the same one from Final Fantasy V actually, and is said to be much stronger than the base forms of Enuo and Exdeath; but no one scales from the Void.
You see.

If we start backscaling Dissidia Shinryu to the rest we get stuff like:

FF V cast: Low 2-C. Which includes... Gilgamesh and Omega. And you know how many people scale to those two?
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Should probably have waited a bit before making this as Ever, me and a few others were working on some massive Final Fantasy revisions. The stuff about the Fiends seem perfectly fine though.
I hate that y'all discuss these things in obscurity. Buuuuut whatevs.
 
Ah, my bad. I didn't express myself properly. I meant that I don't have an argument against that the cast beating Shinryu in NT isn't PIS.

Sources on what do you need, btw? I can help looking up stuff.
 
@Dragon, sorry about that. I just wanted to help out. And I know it's been planned for over a year.

@Pachi, exactly, that's why we're simply taking care of FF1 cast for now. No one's backwards scaling from Shinryu without proper other feats.

But I think the Four Fiends part is a good start yes.
 
PaChi2 said:
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Should probably have waited a bit before making this as Ever, me and a few others were working on some massive Final Fantasy revisions. The stuff about the Fiends seem perfectly fine though.
I hate that y'all discuss these things in obscurity. Buuuuut whatevs.
I mean...this is a common thing for people who plan huge revisions. Nothing new. Plus, we can only do so much when Ever's not exactly on site.
 
Dont feel bad @Pachi and @DDM I had to drag this info from Glass and Ever, so it is just a large effort on discord /skype atm. I didnt know until recently.
 
I hate that y'all discuss these things in obscurity. Buuuuut whatevs.

I mean...this is a common thing for people who plan huge revisions. Nothing new. Plus, we can only do so much when Ever's not exactly on site.

That wont change the fact that I dont appreciate it, though. Not that it will change anything.
 
Say, not want to be meddlesome or anything, don't take it the wrong way. But still you should let the rest know about what you're up to regarding FF, I mean that way we can help out and exchange input and all
 
Well enough derail everyone. If you wanna help, I would recommend asking Glassman on his wall. We can't really coordinate on the wiki to well and discord is far more efficient.

Sorry PaChi you felt left out, I sympathisize, I really do. But probably best to focus on these revisions.

Anyway, the interaction with Dissidia and I is fine to me so these upgrades are fine.
 
To be blunt, I am personally not going to go up and bring up every single topic because the thought of doing so does not actually come up. It's not something I have to do. Would be nice of me to do so, but I will be honest and say that it's by no means a priority of me to do so.
 
Recently played through the PSP remaster of the games. Thought that Chronodia being "One with the flow of time" being more so omnipresence than immeasurable.
 
@DragonMaster Well if I was invited to the group discussion, we wouldn't have this problem

Just kidding, not offended though it would be awesome to join in on the discussion but fine if Everlasting's alright with it. But I don't mind if he isn't. But the High 6-A updates for four fiends is a good start; I also updated the images as Dark649 suggestion and added short summaries that are better than nothing.
 
Well, there wasn't a group channel. Just individual DMs and such. Just made a group discussion that you have been invited to and I can add whoever else wants to be apart of it.
 
Alright, this is where the scan for Low 2-C comes from.

Darkness converges upon us, and the world crumbles before our very eyes... What was once a sanctuary for the weary has now become a battlefield. Long ago, two deities— Genesis of Destruction Spiritus and Imperious Tutelar Materia—took up the mantle of the old gods. They warped the fabric of time and space to create a new world—a world they populated with warriors from other realms. In the name of the gods these men and women were forced to fight day and night without reprieve. The strain of such hard-fought battle, however, soon grew to be too great. Their battered bodies failing them, their shattered spirits sent out a cry for help. Their peals were answered. The crystal, heeding their call, demanded the gods give them respite. And thus this world, where these warriors could finally rest, was brought into existence. DFFOO Prologue 02 Ancient Moogle Only... Not long after its creation, the Torsions began to appear. It was from their gaping maws that an army of terrible fiends surged forth, plunging our lands into chaos. If nothing is done, soon the neighboring realms, too, will begin to feel the effects of the impending darkness. Summoned by this great threat, Mog, the guardian spirit has awoken. He has taken a vow to help gather heroes capable of delivering us from destruction. There is, however, little time. Torsions are appearing at a faster rate and threaten to unravel the very fabric of the universe itself. If left unchecked, soon there may be nothing left to save. ...So we turn to you. Your will to protect the world will give our heroes strength when they need it most. Your words will give their swords direction. And your heart will give us the guidance we need to uncover the truth. Now go forth, friend, and trust in yourself as the light trusts in you.

Everlasting said he was fairly hesitant due to not yet playing the game himself, but I think the context sounds legit. And Spiritus and Materia are considered comparable to Chaos and Cosmos and Shinryu. This is the main part that's considered controversial which he said the rest is fine.

However, this source and later this. She is stated to be the flow of time itself each and every time a form is defeated. And is later stated to be the Lord of all Time as well as granting the Warriors of Light the power of all time when defeated. This could be a back up Tier 2 feat, but more importantly an Immeasurable speed feat. Not only is Chronodia the flow of time itself, but also is literally all time.

Now, I think everyone agrees with the Four Fiends and base Garland having Unknow speed ratings, and that Base Garland can probably just be Unknow as well since the Chapel feat sounds has no calc, and the Island level+ feat hasn't really been proven to be used against Garland.

Edit: Actually, the Nitro Powder calc does legit scale to Base Garland. I talked with Ever again, even just a wee bit did the Island level+ feat. And Corneria actually had entire masses of it, which even making warhead launchers out of it has 0 impact against Garland. So if anything, it's the High 8-C rating that should probably be removed and Island level+ might actually be a lowball.
 
So the mention of universe in opera omnia is what gives credence to believe the realm where the Dissidia wars take place is universe shaped, correct? I do recall that despite that Shinryu's profile used to mention the Dissidia realm, but the highest he ever got was 3-B. I guess makes sense that needs some backup to assume a created world is universe sized.

Um, this is a question out of genuine ignorance, not questioning the revisions or anything of the sort, but how does fighting time itself or the concept of time leads to immesurable speed? I know it may sound silly, I apologize, but the scenario itself is pretty trippy to imagine and analyze.

EDIT: Would the Warrior of Light get his Dissidia moveset?
 
Because Chronodia is literally Omnipresent across spacetime and also literally boundless across space-time. It bluntently says that when you enter the Labyrinth of time that she is beyond all time and transcendent over it.
 
It was agreed to put the Tier 2 and Immeasurable speed stuff on hold for now until Everlasting finds more info on Dissidia; High 6-A Fiends and Base Garland's speed were properly revised yes. Though, unsure what to do for his base key; apparently his 6-C feat is legit, but the Vampire destroying a chapel doesn't sound like High 8-C and more like 9-A to 8-C.
 
Not really, some say it sounds like speculation; which is the only reason for the low end. But only a "wee bit" of Nitro Powder did the 80 something Gigato feat where as the Corellian army even with entire landmines worth of Nitro Powder is said to have 0 power against him. I'm for removing the low end key, but want more input on that.
 
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