Fear and Famine (Fear and Hunger Discussion Thread)

[StretchSebe]

Finally managed to recruit O'saa and recorded his explanation of magic


This would obviously give everyone who uses magic Fate Manipulation, Reality Warping and maybe even Subjective Reality

Nice. I believe in the fate manipulation, and reality warping to do so being things we could put on profiles. To a lesser extent for the average mortals, and to a greater degree for beings like the New Gods.

I think subjective reality would be reserved for the higher tiers of the verse though, such as ones we've seen do existence erasure, negation, and creation (basically the Old Gods).

Also, "There is a greater scheme that we all enact, 'fate' if you will. You can manipulate that force and bend it to your own will."

Ik this only refers to the greater scheme as one timeline by calling it fate, but as I maintain that we see there are plenty of fates across the games (endings and game overs), I feel this is but another in game explanation as to what the greater scheme is as a 'force:' The many fates that are possible.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Btw I think Scorched Earth might yield some good results

 

[Abstractions]

Thought I mentioned the fate mechanics and how it's intertwined with the magic system already based on O'saa's dialogue, but maybe I'm thinking of what I'm working on and how it already looks.

Btw I think Scorched Earth might yield some good results

Depends on what you think it's doing, because we see the results of scorched earth after your fight with Hugo and it could very easily only be a room-sized climate change, which may not even yield anything beyond what we do have.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Thought I mentioned the fate mechanics and how it's intertwined with the magic system already based on O'saa's dialogue, but maybe I'm thinking of what I'm working on and how it already looks.

Ye, but I couldn't find it anywhere on Youtube, so I decided to record it lol
Also think Subjective Reality (More so than Reality Warping) is warranted for it since unconditional belief lets them manipulate the world around them

Depends on what you think it's doing, because we see the results of scorched earth after your fight with Hugo and it could very easily only be a room-sized climate change, which may not even yield anything beyond what we do have.

True, could probably still reach some decent numbers depending on how we treat it turning the floor into magma-lookin stuff, even if it's room-sized

 

[StretchSebe]

Also think Subjective Reality (More so than Reality Warping) is warranted for it since unconditional belief lets them manipulate the world around them

Oh, I see your point. I think that'd be fair to give them Subjective Reality through Old/Ascended Gods then.

True, could probably still reach some decent numbers depending on how we treat it turning the floor into magma-lookin stuff, even if it's room-sized

I agree. I'd think it's worth calcing given the size, and the fact it is magma.

 

[StretchSebe]

Btw I think Scorched Earth might yield some good results

Oh, also saw how in a different room (in a video showing the fight against father hugo, and it's censored but still warning as it's in the phase he takes his clothes off) that the magma actually covers the walls, and goes the length of the room or hall it was cast in as well. Now that's scary.

Edit: Going through the video provides a theory for the Subjective Reality ability/power as well when discussing the Realm of Rher: That it could be a collective unconscious.

 

[Mariogoods]

Even if the cosmology is disregarded into 3-A, it is still one of the strongest verses made with RPG Maker.

 

[Shmooply]

Even if the cosmology is disregarded into 3-A, it is still one of the strongest verses made with RPG Maker.

Middens (my beloved):

 

[Mariogoods]

Middens (my beloved):

Maybe not because OneShot the Entity is Low 2-C, but I'm sure that Fear and Hunger has decent haxes.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/top-10-strongest-rpg-maker-non-smurfs-for-every-tier-1.148198/

 

[Axl233]

Coincidentally i just finished termina the other and i happen to came across this din't know there was funger thread.

People already pointed out that they might be 9A or 8C. But for speed i think they should be hypersonic, the characters in termina are able to dodge bullets from pistols, rifles and arrows at point blank range(coin toss minigame from soldier enemies and august, dodging attacks from riflemen with agility boost), and eveen dodging shoots from a WW2 tank(platoon), and lightning from Logic obviously this would scale to funger 1 cast as well because they faced some of the same bosses.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Couldn't they have been aim dodging in those cases tho?
Guns kinda blitz us in the overworld and both August and whoever we're playin can't react to Karin's pistol

 

[Shmooply]

Couldn't they have been aim dodging in those cases tho?
Guns kinda blitz us in the overworld and both August and whoever we're playin can't react to Karin's pistol

Definitely aim dodging. Almost every gun-wielding enemy in this game has their weapon aimed at you before the fight even starts, and in some cases it's blatantly obvious they're gonna try to shoot you, like with the ghoul soldiers.

 

[Axl233]

Couldn't they have been aim dodging in those cases tho?
Guns kinda blitz us in the overworld and both August and whoever we're playin can't react to Karin's pistol

they dodge at the same time you hear the sound of the gunshot. Not ducking before then gunshot like aim dodgers do.

"both August and whoever we're playin can't react to Karin's pistol"
Either PIS or could be the fact that Karin is just faster then him.In the game overworld cutscene Levi can get his skull crushed by a mob hitting him with a pipe despite being able to tank hits from monsters that can casually break thought reinforced steel eveen in early game, think about it.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

I don't know if that's valid, but they need to use Fate Manip for that to even happen, maybe it can be like "Supersonic reaction speed with Coin of Judgement"?
Also, pretty sure the Mob is around 8-C, so them killing Levi with a pipe isn't that far-fetched

 

[StretchSebe]

Looks like I'm finally getting to playing Termina lol

 

[StretchSebe]

Middens (my beloved):

Maybe not because OneShot the Entity is Low 2-C, but I'm sure that Fear and Hunger has decent haxes.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/top-10-strongest-rpg-maker-non-smurfs-for-every-tier-1.148198/

Also oof ow, OFF my beloved.

Is cool RPG maker verses do seem to be eating well though.

 

[Abstractions]

Definitely aim dodging. Almost every gun-wielding enemy in this game has their weapon aimed at you before the fight even starts, and in some cases it's blatantly obvious they're gonna try to shoot you, like with the ghoul soldiers.

I do disagree with this only because the Elite Troopers and Weeping scope do use rapid fire on you, which even an Olivia out of her wheelchair can dodge.

There are even cases where aim dodging would be impossible, like with Logic's overheat. The Ghoul soldier is probably the worst example because he is shielding his face from you as he fires, even if it is point-blank. Elite troopers do not run into this issue.

lightning from Logic

This is misinfo, as Red arc is undodgeable, just like Lunar storm and Moonscorch. (No Speed of Light for you.)

Guns kinda blitz us in the overworld and both August and whoever we're playin can't react to Karin's pistol

Overworld cases are hard to judge because we can also lose limbs in the overworld despite having limb protection available, like Salmonsnake rune.

August's case was also because Karin hesitated so she pulled the trigger preemptively, should they continue their standoff August would actually hit Karin first.

Looks like I'm finally getting to playing Termina lol

Took you long enough, tsktsk.

 

[Abstractions]

"I don't miss." ~ Pav, right before missing his shot.

 

[Mariogoods]

It seems that the cosmology blog can be proposed in a CRT before the relevant profiles being made. (And a verse page can exist with links to cosmology explanation blog only)

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

I do disagree with this only because the Elite Troopers and Weeping scope do use rapid fire on you, which even an Olivia out of her wheelchair can dodge.

Not sure about this, since the Elite Troopers' Coin Flip mentions us dodging "the trooper's aim" which implies it's aimdodging rather than like dodging the gunfire

August's case was also because Karin hesitated so she pulled the trigger preemptively, should they continue their standoff August would actually hit Karin first.

That doesn't really change much, August hitting Karin before she shoots just means that lad scales above her reaction speed.
If August was supersonic, lad wouldn't have gotten hit, let alone blitzed by a shot from a pistol, especially with the distance between him and Karin during that standoff

 

[StretchSebe]

It seems that the cosmology blog can be proposed in a CRT before the relevant profiles being made. (And a verse page can exist with links to cosmology explanation blog only)

That's fair enough.

Not sure about this, since the Elite Troopers' Coin Flip mentions us dodging "the trooper's aim" which implies it's aimdodging rather than like dodging the gunfire

That doesn't really change much, August hitting Karin before she shoots just means that lad scales above her reaction speed.
If August was supersonic, lad wouldn't have gotten hit, let alone blitzed by a shot from a pistol, especially with the distance between him and Karin during that standoff

I'm just wondering how we scale and determine speeds for the characters of the first?

Termina's got guns. Straightforward. But the first seems to be so nebulous when it comes to the relative speed at which things happen in combat.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Pretty sure the first's cast would scale to Termina's cast since bothadem fight the Tormented One

 

[StretchSebe]

Pretty sure the first's cast would scale to Termina's cast since bothadem fight the Tormented One

Oh. Convenient. also kaiser

 

[Abstractions]

Not sure about this, since the Elite Troopers' Coin Flip mentions us dodging "the trooper's aim" which implies it's aimdodging rather than like dodging the gunfire

Then you'd agree that you then aren't dodging his aim should the coin toss fail, of which you're subjected to the rapid fire attack that you can still dodge. Even without bob and weave.

If August was supersonic, lad wouldn't have gotten hit, let alone blitzed by a shot from a pistol, especially with the distance between him and Karin during that standoff

Could be because he was reaching for his bow, which ended in him getting shot as he couldn't respond in time. You can dodge Pav's shot despite him "firing before you can react".

If we play the "If he was x" game then we would be pushing for the cast to be like, 10-A to 9-C, because sometimes you cannot break doors. We go down the line of thinking that has Kratos at "struggles to open a chest" level.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Then you'd agree that you then aren't dodging his aim should the coin toss fail, of which you're subjected to the rapid fire attack that you can still dodge. Even without bob and weave.

I take the MISS as the Trooper missing his shots rather than the Contestants dodging them, although I could see them scaling via Bob and Weave,
It can also let them dodge the Platoon attack despite the Coin of Judgement saying that they can't, so that should be noted.

Plus, I do wonder how we'd even calc the MISS ones since the Contestants don't move when those happen

Could be because he was reaching for his bow, which ended in him getting shot as he couldn't respond in time. You can dodge Pav's shot despite him "firing before you can react".

The Pav one seems more solid, ye

If we play the "If he was x" game then we would be pushing for the cast to be like, 10-A to 9-C, because sometimes you cannot break doors. We go down the line of thinking that has Kratos at "struggles to open a chest" level.

Think this one is different since it's a cutscene rather than just a gameplay mechanic/limitation

 

[Abstractions]

Plus, I wonder how we'd even calc the MISS ones since the Contestants don't move when those happen

There's like, some form of model change when things miss, it just doesn't happen consistently for whatever reason. It's supposed to switch to the animation of the character after you've selected an action.

It can also let them dodge the Platoon attack despite the Coin of Judgement saying that they can't, so that should be noted.

That one is also kind of impressive because you are fighting it in a very enclosed space, managing to dodge at all should be considered decent.

I take the MISS as the Trooper missing his shots rather than the Contestants dodging them,

Trooper is clearly just a jobber, a common theme with these games.

 

[Shmooply]

The Ghoul soldier is probably the worst example because he is shielding his face from you as he fires, even if it is point-blank.

My dumbass realized it was a bad example after I posted it and double checked the flavor text.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Btw should we put like "higher with Equipment" for the playable characters?
A bunch of weapons increase our ATK stats and the Crow Mauler soul also increases ATK

 

[Axl233]

Btw should we put like "higher with Equipment" for the playable characters?
A bunch of weapons increase our ATK stats and the Crow Mauler soul also increases ATK

maybe, i think you should also make 2 different keys for Levi, one for heroin withdraw and the other when he is on heroin, because he is really weak without it , he did not even fought back against Caligura(in case you let their encounter play out) and ends up dying in a few hits thats how bad it is.

 

[Axl233]

And Marcoh can do as much damage without equipment because of his skills alone.

 

[StretchSebe]

Btw should we put like "higher with Equipment" for the playable characters?
A bunch of weapons increase our ATK stats and the Crow Mauler soul also increases ATK

Equipment - especially souls - should absolutely warrant 'higher with equipment'

maybe, i think you should also make 2 different keys for Levi, one for heroin withdraw and the other when he is on heroin, because he is really weak without it , he did not even fought back against Caligura(in case you let their encounter play out) and ends up dying in a few hits thats how bad it is.

Also yes

 

[Abstractions]

maybe, i think you should also make 2 different keys for Levi, one for heroin withdraw and the other when he is on heroin, because he is really weak without it , he did not even fought back against Caligura(in case you let their encounter play out) and ends up dying in a few hits thats how bad it is.

I don't think that's necessary, Heroin is buff and he's just debuffed in his base state because he's suffering from withdrawals. If you give him Heroin he gets put back into a buffed state as opposed to a neutral state.

Levi also probably didn't fight back because he chose not to, he's tired of killing and wants to leave his troubled past behind.

Btw should we put like "higher with Equipment" for the playable characters?

Higher through AD, Equipment, etc.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Higher through AD, Equipment, etc.

The AD part would only apply to the Termina characters me think

 

[Shmooply]

Moonless' piss-based AD:

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Yall think we can use this as like a x6 multiplier over a Ghoul's AP?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Yall think we can use this as like a x6 multiplier over a Ghoul's AP?

no strength of 6 men doesn`t equate to 6 times over. Its a common pharse to just mean something strong

 

[StretchSebe]

Yall think we can use this as like a x6 multiplier over a Ghoul's AP?

no strength of 6 men doesn`t equate to 6 times over. Its a common pharse to just mean something strong

Having just finished Dota: Dragon's Blood Book 1, I'd agree with Setsuna to a degree.

Midway through a dragon knight is able to fight and force one of the stronger elderwyrms to retreat by themself, something that should be impossible for even the best dragon knight to do alone, claiming they were able do this because they had gotten the added power of the 29 other dragon knight souls lost on the day they first met said elderwyrm 20 years prior. Unless the function of increasing strength, and source is specified to be literally due to the stacking of 'souls' or something similar when it comes to the 'six men,' it could just be hyperbole to describe the strength it has

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Oh also the Sergal Spear is described to "match the strength of fourty men"

 

[StretchSebe]

Oh also the Sergal Spear is described to "match the strength of fourty men"

Then there may be a case for these kinds of statements to be referring to human souls. I guess the follow up is do we have a good frame of reference for how powerful the average human soul is?

 

[StasBoretzky]

Hi, what's our current topic?