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Fate: 7-A Servants

Iapitus The Impaler said:
I know. That is one of the reasons I think Nero should be 7-A. FSN Archer has the advantage of being able to spawn stronger NP, I would need more context.
" No, I meant that as in Siegfried's skill does not matter because at any point in the fight Fafnir could have breathed and nuked the area and killed Sieg. "

He actually did do that, but he countered by hiding under him or behind him.
Click to expand...
I was just looking around for feats of servants that are 7-B right now that can hurt the 7-As. I don't think Archer would pull out a noble phantasm to break the construct of a mere Master but idk the context either.

But Fafnir can fly, all he has to do is look down or turn around. It's not like skill makes you that much faster, they're still comparable enough that Fafnir would be able to turn his head before Siegfried went from his front to his back.
 
Yes, I do. Hercules can still shit on other 7-A, and the difference between someone like that, and a dude that isn't even supposed to be able to engage in combat with a 7-A is definitely gonna be more than 4x. Let me remind you that if we follow your reasoning then Hercules should be able to easily one shot other combat applicable servants like Spartacus can
 
No? Your reasoning is the one that says the combat applicable servants get oneshotted. You're trying to go with 7-B+, possibly/likely 7-A. I'm saying they should just be 7-A.

" Hercules can still shit on other 7-A, and the difference between someone like that, and a dude that isn't even supposed to be able to engage in combat with a 7-A is definitely gonna be more than 4x "

Just in case there is a misunderstanding, I'm not trying to upgrade every single servant to 7-A. Just the ones that are 7-B+ right now but scale to 7-As in some reasonably close fashion or the ones stronger than the 7-B+ servants. For example, Kaleid Bazzet can take on 3 other 7-B+s at the same time and catch an A ranked Broken noble phantasm in her hands. I know that class cards are weaker than the original but not to the point where someone can take on three class card peeps at once and still not be 7-A. Plus, A rank Noble Phantasms are definitely 7-A and being Broken takes it beyond that.
 
Hold on after taking a look at the calc I noticed something odd. The calc doesn't calculate what type of cloud was parted, which is extremely important. I'm not sure if this can actually be used or not, and I think we handle cloud calcs differently now. Not to mention that the scaling images don't even work anymore.


This calc isn't usable, this should be redone as soon as possible. I'll have one of the calc members take a look at this but I'm pretty sure this won't be above 7-B.

https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/fate-stay-night-feat-saber-splits-a-cloud.18339/
 
Yes, I am aware. There is the possibility that they are 7-A, given that we dont know how much of a difference between is due to skill vs Stats. Speaking of which, I just noticed that a good number of the assassin servants have their AP justifications as "being combat ready servants" which is ******* wrong. Sanson isnt considered combat applicable without mad enhancement, and I'm pretty sure Jing Ke isnt either. Those are the 2 I know for sure. Their rating is right, but they would get rekt by any decent combat servant. Most of the Hassan aren't either. They should stay 7-B+ or get possibly 7-A since they even tho they get destroyed they can likely block a blow or 2 from combat applicable servants while those who are rank A should remain mountain level, and those who are combat applicable but not rank A should be At least 7-B+, likely Rank A due to the difference between someone who can one shot other combat applicable servants and someone who is generally considered combat applicable should be more than 4x give or take hence the range.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Hold on after taking a look at the calc I noticed something odd. The calc doesn't calculate what type of cloud was parted, which is extremely important. I'm not sure if this can actually be used or not, and I think we handle cloud calcs differently now. Not to mention that the scaling images don't even work anymore.

This calc isn't usable, this should be redone as soon as possible. I'll have one of the calc members take a look at this but I'm pretty sure this won't be above 7-B.

https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/fate-stay-night-feat-saber-splits-a-cloud.18339/
Click to expand...
Oh boy.
 
Tbh the scaling in general is a bit messy since there's 'backscaling' and then scaling from that involved. Needs to be looked at closely IMHO.
 
That moment when you try upgrading a bunch of servants to 7-A but then you get the 7―A servants to 7-B
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
That moment when you try upgrading a bunch of servants to 7-A but then you get the 7―A servants to 7-B
Click to expand...


Always gotta check the calcs. That's why I'm against us using calcs from other websites, especially whenever they don't get evaluated. Most of the time people just look at them, see a number and slap it onto the pages without actually having it evaluated.
 
The servants will still be 7-A anyway. There are plenty of other 7-A feats so we are fine. Just will lower what degree of 7-A most likely
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
The servants will still be 7-A anyway. There are plenty of other 7-A feats so we are fine. Just will lower what degree of 7-A most likely
Click to expand...

Yeah that's what I was thinking. There's still the mountain level statement from Hercules and I think a few others. But they'd be baseline to lower end 7-A. If they turn out as baseline then the current scaling would actually make sense.
 
Schnee One said:
What feats?
Only one I can think of is Hercules
Click to expand...
Narration describing Excalibur having the power to destroy a mountain. Mordred having has a mountain level feat as well. Karna nuked a plateaue, and Arjuna has a similar feat. Those are just the few off the top of my head, and I know there are others
 
If they have different "Grades", why should they scale at all to someone above it? That's not how those things work. If Herc is an A rank, no B rank should scale to him whatsoever unless they're exceptions.
 
The real cal howard said:
If they have different "Grades", why should they scale at all to someone above it? That's not how those things work. If Herc is an A rank, no B rank should scale to him whatsoever unless they're exceptions.
Click to expand...
They can back scale. Servants of lower ranks can fight higher ones but not on the same level
 
I don't think we should do that. Given that we don't do that for any other franchise with rankings (i.e. Jojo's & Madoka & to an extent Marvel), we shouldn't make an exception here.
 
That's been the standard on this website for a long time. The only reason we don't use jojo stats is cuz they are inconsistent. Servants a rank lower can contend with servants in a higher rank but are not on the same in stats.
 
Let's not get confused with Parameter/Stat rankings and general ranking of "Which Servant is stronger".

The two are different from each other.
 
Out of curiosity, can someone list out the supporting 7-A feats, outside of the one Herc statement?

Even then some mountain-shattering feats are legit High 7-C/7-B, so "destroying a mountain" isn't always 7-A.
 
Herc is a feat, not a statement. Of the ones off the top of my head:

  • Saber's Excalibur being described by narration as having the power to destroy a mountain
  • Mordred's Mountain nuking feat/statement
  • Karna blowing up a plateau with mana burst
  • Arjuna has a similar feat to Karna's
 
I say again, not all mountain destruction feats are 7-A, ironically. Many of them, depending on the area covered, fall into High 7-C/7-B. Even then I strongly doubt Clarent would scale to anyone's base strength given that it clashed equally with Balmung.

I can calc the last two if needed, though.
 
Yeah but we don't have the first 2 on camera so I would assume that it would default to mountain level. Although a dude destroying a mountain not being mountain level gives me the same kind of reflexive anger as composite human reaching into superhuman range in physical feats. Ovo.

The latter 2 would be hard to calc since neither is totally on camera, happen in a split second, and also seem to borderline liquidate the mountain with their flames from what we see.
 
The real cal howard said:
I don't think we should do that. Given that we don't do that for any other franchise with rankings (i.e. Jojo's & Madoka & to an extent Marvel), we shouldn't make an exception here.
Click to expand...
There was actually a thread about this a while ago.

Unless our current stance changed at some point (which I doubt because the Powerscaling page says the same), it's basically "you can use in-verse stats as long as they are consistent with the scaling".

So A-rank boi being stronger than B-Rank boi is actually consistent with our stance on this.

I'm not remotely knowledgeable enough about Fate to say if it's actually consistent in the grand scheme of things or not though
 
"Let's make every Servant 7-A" turned into "Let's make every Servant whatever the result of Excaliblast's recalc is because the calc is dead (and wrong apparently)"
 
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