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It has been made clear in FT already that more emotion = more magic power. Thats the basic of magic in FT. It does sound an asspull buts thats one of a good reason to not consider this an outlier
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Fairy Tail Downgrade
- Thread starter Siegfried10
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- levy mcgarden
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I am personally fine with using the current Fairy Tail statistics. We agreed previously that the context of the combined feats of Invel, Brandish, and Irene makes them reasonably reliable, even if the situation surrounding Erza's physical health was blatant plot convenience. She also moved around normally immediately afterwards, which would not have been possible with broken bones.
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Invela feat also has problems its only island level if he maid the mountains around the guild. But he didn't after he was defeated you see they are made out of rocks they were created by universe one. Which also brings the question why are all of the spriggan scaled to each other when the manga have shown that they vary in strenght and some of them are beeing defeated by the fodders member of the guild? If we do things like that on the wiki why is Buggy the clown not scaled to Mihawk or Doflamingo.Dragonmasterxyz said:
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@Ant: Erza was not moving around normally. Wendy healed her and even asked her if she could walk. Invel's feat is irrelevant here and I believe we agreed that Brandish's feat was simply hax.
Also, to your second comment, if that is a reason why you don't agree, why do we even bother with content revision threads?
Also, to your second comment, if that is a reason why you don't agree, why do we even bother with content revision threads?
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I wondered about that myself.Bepo4151 said:
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@KuuIchigo
Well, I think that all of the Spriggan were stated to have comparative raw magic power, except for August and Irene, with Larcade in-between.
As for Brandish, I was the one who first thought that it was hax, but then we got Invel's feat, and two feats from Irene, that seem to contradict this interpretation. Also, again, as far as I am aware, all feats seems to be proportional to raw magic power in Fairy Tail.
As for the second comment, all that I am saying is that we already had a thorough discussion about this, and cannot constantly revise the same series.
I will notify Aiden in any case.
Well, I think that all of the Spriggan were stated to have comparative raw magic power, except for August and Irene, with Larcade in-between.
As for Brandish, I was the one who first thought that it was hax, but then we got Invel's feat, and two feats from Irene, that seem to contradict this interpretation. Also, again, as far as I am aware, all feats seems to be proportional to raw magic power in Fairy Tail.
As for the second comment, all that I am saying is that we already had a thorough discussion about this, and cannot constantly revise the same series.
I will notify Aiden in any case.
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Actually,if you scroll through the comments Invel calc was debunked. There was no evidence he froze the mountains. therefore the calc is wrong.
Then there is Brandish's feat that would no longer hold up with Invels calc being debunked and Erza's being PIS/Outlier.
so there are several serious issues with FT's tiers.
EDIT: There was no evidence Invel froze the mountains.
Then there is Brandish's feat that would no longer hold up with Invels calc being debunked and Erza's being PIS/Outlier.
so there are several serious issues with FT's tiers.
EDIT: There was no evidence Invel froze the mountains.
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@Ant:
I still don't know why we accepted that one statement which was contradicted when there were superior Spriggans. And IIRC, some of the Spriggans powers are hax based.
I don't see how it is still not hax even if there were other feats calculated with the around the same results.
I know. But it is bound to happen. It just happens with popular series (DB, Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, etc.) We can't just dismiss it if there are reasonable arguments being made. That is what content revision threads are for.
Edit:
Invel's feat makes absolutely no sense. The whole calc was based on irrelevant assumptions. What actually happened, was, Invel created nothing more than a cold blizzard.
It was stated right here: Chapter 498 page 13.
As for the mountains, the mountains were already there.
They were not created from Invel's freezing. Or by Invel at all.
So the whole feat does not exists. It was merely a misinterpreted overly stretch out feat.
I still don't know why we accepted that one statement which was contradicted when there were superior Spriggans. And IIRC, some of the Spriggans powers are hax based.
I don't see how it is still not hax even if there were other feats calculated with the around the same results.
I know. But it is bound to happen. It just happens with popular series (DB, Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, etc.) We can't just dismiss it if there are reasonable arguments being made. That is what content revision threads are for.
Edit:
Invel's feat makes absolutely no sense. The whole calc was based on irrelevant assumptions. What actually happened, was, Invel created nothing more than a cold blizzard.
It was stated right here: Chapter 498 page 13.
As for the mountains, the mountains were already there.
They were not created from Invel's freezing. Or by Invel at all.
So the whole feat does not exists. It was merely a misinterpreted overly stretch out feat.
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Well, regardless, the scale of magic feats in Fairy Tail seem to depend on raw magic power, and we have Brandish's feat, along with Irene's two feats. I think that it would be very unfair to Fairy Tail to simply dismiss them, when we usually accept similar upgrades for other series.
Anyway, I am very busy, so we should probably wait for Aiden.
Anyway, I am very busy, so we should probably wait for Aiden.
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In Fairy tail verse magic is proportional to raw power.
Now you wanna convince me that summone who shrinks a large country to 1/20 of its original size in small arc of time (yes the prep is small, it last from the moment she start to the moment Zeref says that magical flow in the entire land is changed,because during the battle between Gajeel and bradman that was shown Irene was actually flying almost over half country in order to get to Acnologia's position and she wasn't chanting during that moment since she was even able to fight him) is only around mountain lvl... Or Acnologia who is literally capable of ruling the world on his own and has done so is like what large mountain?
And yes Erza said she would get killed, if that attack hit her directly,but what happen afterwards is that she concentrates all her magical energy into a single blow and destroys the meteor and it has perfect sense since in that outfit she has her normal durabilty,but has the strongest attack since she can use all of her magical power into raw damage.
Brandish shrink an island with easy and is also capable of increasing matter on the same way she shrinks them like she did against Lucy and she was holding back in that battle (as later explained) Brandish is also a country demolisher,but that's I agree looks like just a hyperbole...
If nothing Fairy tail is downgraded, since August is clearly stated of being capable of destroying fiore and is in fact using all of his energy to do so in spoilers and we talk about Large country AP.
Than there is the fact of Etherion being country lvl,even thou smallest country in FT is country+ while biggest almost large continent...
And let's not talk about speed cause I have a lot of things to say there.
Now you wanna convince me that summone who shrinks a large country to 1/20 of its original size in small arc of time (yes the prep is small, it last from the moment she start to the moment Zeref says that magical flow in the entire land is changed,because during the battle between Gajeel and bradman that was shown Irene was actually flying almost over half country in order to get to Acnologia's position and she wasn't chanting during that moment since she was even able to fight him) is only around mountain lvl... Or Acnologia who is literally capable of ruling the world on his own and has done so is like what large mountain?
And yes Erza said she would get killed, if that attack hit her directly,but what happen afterwards is that she concentrates all her magical energy into a single blow and destroys the meteor and it has perfect sense since in that outfit she has her normal durabilty,but has the strongest attack since she can use all of her magical power into raw damage.
Brandish shrink an island with easy and is also capable of increasing matter on the same way she shrinks them like she did against Lucy and she was holding back in that battle (as later explained) Brandish is also a country demolisher,but that's I agree looks like just a hyperbole...
If nothing Fairy tail is downgraded, since August is clearly stated of being capable of destroying fiore and is in fact using all of his energy to do so in spoilers and we talk about Large country AP.
Than there is the fact of Etherion being country lvl,even thou smallest country in FT is country+ while biggest almost large continent...
And let's not talk about speed cause I have a lot of things to say there.
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Are we really doing this ? If I opened a Cont.Rev thread for another series and said "X series is Y level? What kind of lame joke is this?", that thread would be immediately shut down and the user would either get a warning, or straight up ban.
Just because a character does something against all odds, it doesn't mean it's an outlier. The very franchise of Saint Seiya is centered around this theme and no one calls that an outlier. The Saints get dragged on the floor during the whole match, only to hear Athena's voice, get up and kill their opponent. Goku had his limbs crushed by Daimao and still won against all odds with a single punch. Examples like this are endless because that's what Shonen mangas are, overcoming the odds and winning.
Now we're saying Brandish's feat was hax, Erza's was PIS, disregarding Irene/August/Etherion (oh and Erza stopping Natsu and Gray). If we disregard all of this, the upgrade is irrelevant. If this was for another popular series, people would try and stretch the arguments to make things fall into place, but if it's FT lol no they are outliers. If this isn't cherry picking then I don't know what is.
Just because a character does something against all odds, it doesn't mean it's an outlier. The very franchise of Saint Seiya is centered around this theme and no one calls that an outlier. The Saints get dragged on the floor during the whole match, only to hear Athena's voice, get up and kill their opponent. Goku had his limbs crushed by Daimao and still won against all odds with a single punch. Examples like this are endless because that's what Shonen mangas are, overcoming the odds and winning.
Now we're saying Brandish's feat was hax, Erza's was PIS, disregarding Irene/August/Etherion (oh and Erza stopping Natsu and Gray). If we disregard all of this, the upgrade is irrelevant. If this was for another popular series, people would try and stretch the arguments to make things fall into place, but if it's FT lol no they are outliers. If this isn't cherry picking then I don't know what is.
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There's no need for a downgrade since Fairy Tail is almost always about plot conveniences, when they're fighting enemies, Fairy Tail suddenly gets huge power boosts. I can't remember a single fight that involved Erza that wasn't a plot convenience win and lets not get started on Larcade getting fodderised by a character from Fiore despite being massively above the strongest in Fiore, the same with August.
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I feel both sides are being very overreacting here. Here's my opinion on the matter. Yes, I believe Fairy Tail is getting its fair share of wank recently, and yes, I feel as if the community is quick to pull the victim card. But I also feel like the other side is way to quick and willing to attack the Fairy Tail franchise for little reason, and will put their own bias into the matter.
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August was bleeding from his mouth, that's hardly a scratch and then he decided to do a suicide attack because Fairy Tail and then he quit because Fairy Tail and then he died because Fairy Tail 
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Larcade was said by himself to be on par with August and Irene and losing against Sting has no sense whatsover; why the hell is Sting nowe able to consume anything White and not just Light? Nevermind the massive tier gap between them.
.Larcade was said by himself to be on par with August and Irene and losing against Sting has no sense whatsover; why the hell is Sting nowe able to consume anything White and not just Light? Nevermind the massive tier gap between them.
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That's kinda always been Sting's thing. White/Holy as opposed to actual light.
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@burst he is their lvl because of hax giving him the possibilty to overcome them. By your logic Larcade is Acnolgia'a lvl because Zeref said he can beat him,but please don't discus that here.
@cal every series now and than gets wanked,but the fault is mostly because of the authors. If you think Hiro says August can destroy the country which is large country lvl and we already saw Irene capable of affecting Fiore so, of course there must be something in those statements that is truth,but what? It's not like the authors care will someone calculate how strong their characters are... Like really OP is getting sub relativistic from MHS and no one complains, it's also getting a large country AP no one mentions outlier... Fairy tail goes from HS+ to low end MHS+ to like mid-hing end MHS+ and at least city/mountain to island/large island and everyone complains... And we talk about a verse with country lvl statements everywhere and even a feat by Irene... So, of course I am gonna overreact when it's trying to downgrade a verse like that on mountain lvl max.
I apologies for the long post and my overreacting and everything else,but i have my opinions and if find something BS I have to say it whether others like it or not. (And it's not like a decide here anything anyway so don't see a problem)
@cal every series now and than gets wanked,but the fault is mostly because of the authors. If you think Hiro says August can destroy the country which is large country lvl and we already saw Irene capable of affecting Fiore so, of course there must be something in those statements that is truth,but what? It's not like the authors care will someone calculate how strong their characters are... Like really OP is getting sub relativistic from MHS and no one complains, it's also getting a large country AP no one mentions outlier... Fairy tail goes from HS+ to low end MHS+ to like mid-hing end MHS+ and at least city/mountain to island/large island and everyone complains... And we talk about a verse with country lvl statements everywhere and even a feat by Irene... So, of course I am gonna overreact when it's trying to downgrade a verse like that on mountain lvl max.
I apologies for the long post and my overreacting and everything else,but i have my opinions and if find something BS I have to say it whether others like it or not. (And it's not like a decide here anything anyway so don't see a problem)
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@William. A verse going from having MHS top tiers to Sub-Rel top tiers is unsurprising. A verse having HS+ top tiers going to MHS+ BoS is bound to get some controversy. I don't care how this goes, I just want to show that both sides are being very overreacting.
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Going from 700mach to 11k Mach has more sense... I am not sure about lowest end HS to MHS+ how much diffrence there is,but I am sure it's much lower.
Actually a HS was always wrong because even back then Laxus had MHS attack speed,but no one who dodged his attacks or kept up with him was upgraded and that would of been an entire verse than it first went to low end because of his lightning and only than for Erza's speed with a single hand so she is a lot faster as well... That is complete consistency on the other side one feat only and they get sub-rel and no complains...
Thou of course I don't know how things work here so I can't judge that correctly...
One more thing since we already have this thread.
There is one thing I discussed with Aiden time ago thou... Levy and Lisanna for example have at least small island+ and yeah it has some sense since they both helped in battle vs spriggans, but I am not sure how correct that is since they were more of a support in battle so, I am not into leaving unknown cause the series is ending so we won't have anything from them anymore,but at the same time it's almost impossible to actually judge their strength so maybe a likely or a solid small island for fighting and doing some minor damage... I mean it's weird,but at least small island+ for support is as well weird...
Actually a HS was always wrong because even back then Laxus had MHS attack speed,but no one who dodged his attacks or kept up with him was upgraded and that would of been an entire verse than it first went to low end because of his lightning and only than for Erza's speed with a single hand so she is a lot faster as well... That is complete consistency on the other side one feat only and they get sub-rel and no complains...
Thou of course I don't know how things work here so I can't judge that correctly...
One more thing since we already have this thread.
There is one thing I discussed with Aiden time ago thou... Levy and Lisanna for example have at least small island+ and yeah it has some sense since they both helped in battle vs spriggans, but I am not sure how correct that is since they were more of a support in battle so, I am not into leaving unknown cause the series is ending so we won't have anything from them anymore,but at the same time it's almost impossible to actually judge their strength so maybe a likely or a solid small island for fighting and doing some minor damage... I mean it's weird,but at least small island+ for support is as well weird...
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Why would Wendy get downgraded? She took several attacks from Dimaria and was able to fight with her with Sherria's help. Also negated Irene's attack and wounded her.Bills1992 said:
And if Lisanna and Elfman defeated Ajeel, they should scale to him as well obviously. Levy should be around Lisanna's level but I don't know about Pantherlily.
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Wendy fought so that's okay, I am talking about Lisanna like she helped,but what did she do? If she simply backed him up and he did the work I don't see she gets upgraded that much and same goes for Levy since she did nothing useful and I am pretty sure Lily is stronger than Levy and Lisanna... Of course I don't care that much and I am fine with whatever is done,but I find it weird and inaccurate...
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Lisanna did react to Ajeel's attack and after the battle both Elfman and Lisanna are bruised a lot so that would mean they took hits from Ajeel. I don't see why they shouldn't scale.WilliamShadow said:
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Why would he fight with 50% stamina?
Erza didn't beat him alone because she couldn't use her magic half the fight and that allowed Ajeel to get some good hits in, thus weakening her a lot.
Erza didn't beat him alone because she couldn't use her magic half the fight and that allowed Ajeel to get some good hits in, thus weakening her a lot.
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Going to make a placeholder in this thread here. However, are there any other Massively Hypersonic+ feats other than Laxus and Erza's meteor feat.
From here, here, and and here, how do the relevant characters (the ones scale to Natsu) react to said cloud-to-ground lightning? Those feats are at ch.105 and ch.472 or something...
From here, here, and and here, how do the relevant characters (the ones scale to Natsu) react to said cloud-to-ground lightning? Those feats are at ch.105 and ch.472 or something...
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Can we take a look at the Spriggan's scaling at least? I think is inaccurate.
And all of the people who say that they are all equal in strength, can you post a scan that says it? i can't recall any statements from the manga; all I can remember about them is someone saying that they are all monsters or they are the strongest mages of Alvarez something like that.
That don't make them all equal. Again look at other series for example.
In Bleach, all of the captains are said to have similar in size reiatsu yet we don't scale everyone to Kenpachi. All of the shichibukai are stated to be monsters by Yosaku, yet we don't have 6-C Buggy and Boa.
And let's take a look at the feats for the Spriggan. Invel's feat was already debunked, thus this leaves as only with Brandish feet This doesn't look like 6-C is more like 7-A or 7-B.
This leads to a lot of strange scaling like half of the fairy tail guild being Island level+. And don't get me started on Erza Durability beeing Island level in clear heart that is a glass canon armor and was pierced by a normal Sword
And all of the people who say that they are all equal in strength, can you post a scan that says it? i can't recall any statements from the manga; all I can remember about them is someone saying that they are all monsters or they are the strongest mages of Alvarez something like that.
That don't make them all equal. Again look at other series for example.
In Bleach, all of the captains are said to have similar in size reiatsu yet we don't scale everyone to Kenpachi. All of the shichibukai are stated to be monsters by Yosaku, yet we don't have 6-C Buggy and Boa.
And let's take a look at the feats for the Spriggan. Invel's feat was already debunked, thus this leaves as only with Brandish feet This doesn't look like 6-C is more like 7-A or 7-B.
This leads to a lot of strange scaling like half of the fairy tail guild being Island level+. And don't get me started on Erza Durability beeing Island level in clear heart that is a glass canon armor and was pierced by a normal Sword
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Brandish clearly stated there were 12 other mages of her caliber. And Gray also stated that Ajeel was on the same level as her. It was also said he was on the same level with God Serena.Bepo4151 said:
Characters in Naruto get pierced by regular kunais, shurikens and swords all the time when logically it shouldn't happen. A weapon is considered to have the same tier as the one wielding it.Bepo4151 said:
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Oh yeah totally. Let us do that. Let's scale Buggy to High 6-C as well as Boa because a fodder like Yosaku stated that they are "monsters" (which considering Yosaku's power they should be in his eyes), which doesn't even imply they are on the same power level and the feats absolutely do not support that.
And the Shichibukai bounties completely contradict your statement.
And the Shichibukai bounties completely contradict your statement.
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@Bepo4151: I adjusted your post a bit so it is easier for others to read. Hope you don't mind.
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Just pointing out how redicilus it is to scale a whole group to one character because of statments when thair fights have shown that they are not equal. I actually dont believe Boa and Buggy are 6-C.
Also @Rin Bounties don't equal power Doflamingo bounty is only 340,000,000B. And he is one of the most powerful villain as of now.
Also @Rin Bounties don't equal power Doflamingo bounty is only 340,000,000B. And he is one of the most powerful villain as of now.
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