Fairy Tail Discussion Thread

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Edit: I have changed my argument about the multipliers, now this is just a discussion thread about several stuff, and possibly later it will be about a jellal feat of Splitting clouds

I know I'm being a nuisance by once again asking for a revision, but here it comes

I realized that we lable the DF Natsu, who fought Zeref as him also using FDKM, which is just not true, he never once activated that form, everyone is under the assumption that he has to be in FDKM to use the FDK attacks, which once again has no weight behind it, whenever Natsu entered said form, he stated it, he uses these attacks in his base and Dragn Force, plus Natsu's base was somewhat contending with Zeref who was being casual, Natsu's Base is 1/3 of Dragon Force, and the scale that Natsu goes off is the Low end of the meteor which is 121 or so gigatons, and 1/3 of that is 40.3 Gigatons, which is Island Level

I know this would affect a lot of Profiles as all Spriggans and those who scale to him would boost to that level, however the downgrade that is given to all these characters, was down on the basis that FDKM is being used with DF Natsu in his fight with Zeref, which is an assumption that decides the whole scale

 

[BlackeJan]

Well remember the ENTIRE fight was either PIS or PoF since in DF Natsu was doing jack until he said something about friends & gotten a MAJOR power up. Also yes he's in FDKM (BDKM is Natsu ver.) when he uses certain attacks (its his own power not Igneels since Natsu used it & it disappeared forever). Also it wouldn't be fair for Base Natsu to get an upgrade for keeping up w/ Zeref since then that would mean major upgrades for other series who kept up w/ certain clchatacters even though they were a lower tier

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

The Entire Fight was not just PIS, it makes sense, in verse, and Dragon Force Natsu is comparable to Base Zeref, who scale off of Irene, also FDKM isn't a form that he enters whenever he uses a FDK Technique, yes he has a FDKM form, but he only uses it, when he says he does, which is only two times, otherwise he just does the technique, and DF is a confirmed 3x amp to all your stats, and since DF Natsu scales off Irene and her Low-End Meteor feat is 121 or so gigatons, base Natsu should be Island Level, as well as those who scale to him, as for other series, if they have the same kind of reasoning for their verses, then I encourage them to be upgraded, also Wahl has a version of Etherion, I'm not saying it's equal to the real one, by no means, but even if it's only 1/1,000 of its power, then it's Higher than Island, as for all the spriggans, it makes sense they would be at this level, as they are constantly stated to be Nation destroyers, and I'm by no means saying they are Country level, I'm saying that most of these characters by scaling should be Island Level

 

[BlackeJan]

Well I'll ask Ant & see what he says

 

[BlackeJan]

When was it stated that the Spriggans were nations destroyers? also a bunch of people/Admins said that we don't do multipliers on here sadly

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Regardless of whether or not we use Multipliers, which is evidence that Natsu's Base is Island Level, In the movie Dragon Cry, which is Canon, Natsu's Base was able to defeat a Dragon who absorbed some of Dragon Cry's power which is 10x Etherion, and while this is not proof for a country Base Natsu, by no means, but this is proof that Animus was way stronger than an average Dragon, which would be comparable at least to Irene, who is a stronger than average Dragon which means he is most likely Island Level, as well Gildarts, who is High 6-C said that if God Serena was alive it would be a Good Fight between the two of them, which means he is at least comparable, as well Wahl has Etherion, which should at least have 0.1% of the originals power, and therefore be Island Level, also Natsu's Base while Holding Back, was way stronger than Mard Geer's Etherious form by the time he trained for one year, and even more is that Laxus, Jellal, Gray, Gajeel, and Others should be somewhat comparable to Gildarts

I believe that

Small Island Level: all Low 7-B

Island Level: All 7-B

At least Island Level, Likely Higher: All 7-A

I know this is all a Little bit of a stretch, I believe that all 7-A's should be at Least 6-C

 

[BlackeJan]

Natsu was dragonified up against the dragon & again where did u find that All the Spriggans are nation destroyers. As I said a lot of people said we couldn't use multipliers (I'm just stating what they said is all). Did u contact any1?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm only say Nation Demolisher, because that's the nickname for Brandish, and I know that's hyberbole, Natsu was in his base when he beat Animus, the Dragon FORM was more of an illusion of Natsu's Power that Animus saw himself, it wasn't actually a transformation, but the main point I make is that Gildarts said God Serena could put up a good fight against Him if he was alive, that means that God Serena would have to be at least Island Level to even come close to a Large Island level Gildarts, and The spriggans scale to him, as well as the others in Fairy Tail, are known to be not that Far behind gildarts in the last arc,

God Serena=<Gildaryts Animus plus Dragon Cry, should be a somewhat close to Irene's Dragon Form Wahl's Etherion shouldn't be a thousand times weaker than the real Etherion

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Also, yes I asked admins, just gotta wait for them, they can be busy with other stuff sometimes

 

[Delta3000]

If I recall correctly, Natsu stated that his dragon force was a 3X boost during the nirvana arc (pre second origin) and at the time his base power lvl was 8-A and his Dragon force power lvl was low 7-B; If you look at the AP chart you can clearly see that the power gap between those tiers is way more than 3X. Also worth noting each time Natsu achieved DF or a comparable form, pre second origin, he was boosted by an outside source that was, by feats way more than 3X stronger than him.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@Delta

I agree that the multipliers Idea doesn't work anymore, however, I still believe that due to Gildarts staements and my other points earlier in this thread, That 7-A's become 6-C's and 7-B's become Low 6-C's

 

[BlackeJan]

Just letting u know low 6-C is the same as High 7-A+

 

[Delta3000]

Gildartses statement could actually mean he is weaker than his current rating, i.e he is only 7-A not high 6-C. If you think about it 7-A gildarts is fairly consistent since: the only time he damaged August was via his durability negation; August was very casual in his fight with him; even if he were only 7-A he could still be stronger than anyone else in the FT guild bar a sufficiently powered up Natsu and if you look carefully Gildarts took a very small amount of damage from historia serena, which would lend weight to his statement and my 7-A gildarts hypothesis (assuming the weaker 9 spriggans are all 'at least 7-B+').

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Gildarts scales to august, when he landed a solid hit he did damage him, which means he broke that High 6-C durability, as well Gildarts is most definitely stronger than POF Erza, since he has always been stronger, and did do pretty well with combating August and taking hits from him considering he is resistant to Magic, also I don't for a second believe that August and Irene are over 1,000 times stronger than the rest of the spriggans, also even with POF, Erza has never been that much stronger than the rest of the guild, The 7-A's would sit fine at a baseline or slightly higher 6-C, since they are within the range of that power compared to the rest of verse, also all of the 7-B's would have to jump to a High 7-A+/Low 6-C to also fit with the scale

 

[BlackeJan]

Lol we gonna need more people for this

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Tell me about it

 

[Delta3000]

Gil landed a solid hit except it did no damage to August, it damaged Gil's prosthetic arm.

By that logic he is stronger than 7 flames natsu.

He was getting stomped, it was one of the reasons Hiro had August kill himself - not like Hiro would kill off (if only temporarily) one of the series most popular characters.

Irene has a feat that puts her at that level so you don't have to believe, there is evidence.

The POF has always been as strong as it has needed to be so if it needs to be stronger than Gil it will be.

Wasn't the reason you were using to upgrade characters based on Natsus power multipliers which even you now agree is faulty? so where are you pulling these tiers from?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I was using Natsu's Multipliers as ONE of the reasons that they should scale, but since that's not how it works I couldn't use that anymore, but also because I noticed the huge gaps between the tiers and some comments in the manga, and some feats in the canon movie that could boost them to a higher level, August was able to damage August with his punch, not by a huge ammount, but he still took some damage, that alone puts him at AP High 6-C, plus he was taking hits from an August, that while August might have been holding back, he still did fairly well, considering his Magic was useless against August for a while, as for the POF thing, yes the levels that the characters can grow in is usually an absurb amount, but still, the fact that Irene has a solid High 6-C without POF, and the fact that the spriggans while far appart in power, still are pretty strong and are not astronomically weak compared to August and Irene, I think they could be 10% of their power or arround that i. Power, plus God Serena is compared to Gildarts somewhat if he was alive, so I think the case for Island Level, might have some legitimacy, I know Invel casually covered the entire battlefield in snow with his magic alone, as well, a base Natsu took on an absurdly powerful dragon in his base form, a dragon who got a boost from Sragon Cry

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

The closest thing for 6-C spriggans is Brandish Island growing feat. But it is through her size manip.

Although we have some character that got their tier via size manip, like this guy for example.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I don't know a lot of feats, but what about this one, Invel covering this whole area in a snow storm that he created, can someone calc this

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Also while I know that Barndish's Island Growing Feat is Size manipulation, she did that with her magic power and she is one of the weaker Spriggans, plus that was a casual feat, that took minimal effort, since she can alter an Island easily, and she was amazed by Natsu's power, I think characters can scale off of it

 

[BlackeJan]

Well u can be powerful then yur opponent & still be amazed by them

Ex: Beerus & SSJ3 Goku

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Another thing I want someone to calc (Man I wish I was good at math) would be how Jellal turns the entire sky of the port of Hargeon into Night due to his magic

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Someone did calc Invel feat before and it yields at City Level.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I need someone to calc The literal sky of Port Hargeon, I don't know how that would work, or who to ask

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Dunno.

But the specialist cloud-splitting calc I know is Kaltias and he won't be here for a while.

 

[Delta3000]

You Know August might not be high 6-C either I mean his heat pillar was only 7-A (from what I remember) and he's only High 6-C via 2 statements that are biased in his favour (one from Brandish and one from himself) and his base form is obviously weaker than human Irene, given brandish almost killed him and she cannot even touch human Irene with her magic.

Wasn't 6-C for the weaker spriggans debunked ages ago (I forget why exactly, but still)?

If base Natsu could take on animus that only makes animus 7-B+ even if he's boosted by DC.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

You forgot the statements from Makarov, Jacob, and Mirajane.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

August>Irene

No debate on that, he's the strongest spriggan, Brandish got him cause he wasn't on guard, Cough Cough, Goku Laser, in Resurrection F, also his heat pillar was casual

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

So I found the thread about why everyone was downgraded from 6-C to 7-A, and the only reason was because there was no better feat besides Natsu vaporizing Lake scillora, which still has issues, considering Natsu was only going for Jacob, but managed to to destroy the lake as a biproduct of his magic power

I also know the downgrade is the reason Dragonmaster stopped being interested in scaling Fairy Tail ƒÿö

 

[LordGinSama]

Ummm what are you arguing here exactly? No offense but you seem to be going off of baseless assumptions in order to get a multipler.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

He already drops the Multiplier argument tho.

 

[LordGinSama]

Sorry this thread seems like a mess. What's he arguing now?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Dunno.

I'm at lost either.

 

[HST_Master]

I think it's calcing Grand Chariot and upgrading DF Natsu to Island Lvl off of fighting Zeref and being 3x base

 

[Kilofiercevids11]

I Heard NatsuDragneel Uses Friendship Power all the time lol how can we even upgrade that.

hell even the fight againts Gajeel he cant defeat him alone cause he doesnt have that fire stuff to eat and lucy celestial blow up the nearby machine to help natsu recover some flames :'(

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yeah, the multiplier argument doesn't work

My argument now mainly lies in statements now, which is significantly worse to boost my argument

For one thing, I think someone should calc Jellal splitting the clouds, or possibly changing the whole sky with his magic at port Hargeon

As for the statements

1.) Base Natsu beat an Animus powered by Dragon Cry: no I don't mean that Base Natsu will scale to Dragon Cry or anything, but this is a on his own, stronger than normal Dragon, and then he got a pretty large boost by Dragon Cry that could've put him closer to Igneel or Irene, I'm not saying he is, but even if he only absorbed 1/millionth of it's power, that should boost him to at least Small Island Level

2.) Gildarts said that if God Serena was alive, he could give him a good fight, if he was only mountain Level, I doubt that he could hurt Gildarts, who could take hits from August, and Even was the only person to damage August with a punch, Gildarts is not someone to overestimate someone's power either, he usually knows how to gage someone's power, so if God Serena could give Gildarts a good fight then I think he coul very well be Island Level and everyone else would scale from that

3.) I think it's a little unbelievable that August, Irene, Gildarts, and Erza are over 1,000 times greater than the next highest character's, I know they are a good deal stronger than the rest of the cast, but not by that huge a margin, The 7-A's should sit comfortably at baseline or slightly higher Island Level, considering that Larcade was the third strongest Spriggan, and evn Zeref said he was impressive, but an 1,000 times difference is insane, and I think unreasonable

I know these reasons are a bit skewed, but still I can't believe the huge cap between the characters that are considered comparable by some of the characters

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@Demon

Well, are likely to be an outlier? As for example the base Natsu have thrown the Mard Geer away while their LFDM did nothing.

And God Serena is not more Mountain level now in his profile is like City level + and I did not understand this downgrade already to realize that God Serena was stomps 4 City Level

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Besides Kaltias, does any one else know anyone, who can calc splitting clouds, cause Jellal might have a big cloud spitting feat

 

[fandom_9TailAcno]

as we see natsu is able to dodge sting laser attack( and laser moves at light speed) in another scan future rogues laims he attains light manipulation after killing sting, in last scans sting eating lacrade light blade. all proof that sting uses light magic, then why his some attack speed is not at light speed, and why natsu is not at sub-rel to rel speed??