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Ethan Xavier VS. Jay Grimoire

Repeat to me how Zipper Ma- Stuicki Fengaz works?

Something about stealing exclusively natrual traits, such as enhanced smell or night vision, MHA Quirks, or Wolverine claws / Superman Heat Vision via touch?

In that case, it won't really do... Anything to Ethan, all of his abilities are something gifted to him and learned, but not part of his actual body or something all humans in the world have as an natrual ability. His power is more like a weapon that he wields rather than actually part of his body.

Also going to assume Ethan can't do Lightning Dash or Super Signal for Speed Amp purposes since that's a 41,000+x boost. Here I go-
 
First off, Ethan is 6.33x Stronger... Yikes

Jay's Water, Fire, and even Life abilities simply won't do a thing against Ethan's elemental resistances, which means that Aura and Weapons is going to be the only good option for offense around, but even it's Soul and Paralysis can be dealt with (via resistance and Bioelectric Command respectively). Aura Egg can be dealt with by creating an elemental clone inside said forcefield to attack anyways

However, while it seems like Ethan has every single edge, until he figures out how Jay is essentially invincible due to Regenerationn via Demonic Essense, Jay will continue to get stronger and stronger to the point where he will be able to easily take out Ethan (assuming this goes beyond 7-B) via Second Wind

Issue is, because Ethan uses elements like Fire, Ice, and Lightning anyways (which apparently works against Demonic Essense), Ethan may really not have to worry about that at all.

If Jay can play the right cards to only get hit by elements that don't screw with his Essense, he can win, but with Ethan's versatility and power advantage... I still think Eth has this
 
Saving Throws are gonna make it harder to affect Jay, and Sticky Fingers can be used to steal Ethan's AP and Durability.
 
Ah, that changes things a lot

Assuming that it doesn't instantly steal all of his AP and Durability, Ethan would take notice of this fact and quickly deduce that he would require a long range play style, as Aura is close-mid range from my recollection, he'll know the range via his 6th Sense. If the off chance all of his AP and Durability is sapped, Ethan's versatility will have to make up for it, 10 elemental clones, air illusions, tons of Crowd Control and zoning with ice, wind based defenses that can keep Jay's weapons away, stuff like that. Assuming Ethan's AP doesn't go down to the point where he can't hurt Jay at all in any significant way, he should be fine

Saving Throws won't really work on things that do pure damage right? Most of Ethan's moves are basically just that, just throwing the elements around. However, it's pretty obvious he can't dura negate with electricity stuff like sleep or pain manip, I think? But say, a thicc fire beam should be able to pass and be effective on Demon Essense too
 
From what I'm hearing right now, it seems like Ethan would take the win.

Also, when are we gonna finish Zephyr vs Zephyr and do Alana vs Alana?
 
I see

Then by the time Ethan notices, his attack goes down. He has resistances to Statistics Reduction, but it's still pretty substantial since it still works on him

I'm just going to assume he has the AP Disadvantage, I believe my point still stands, since Ethan will then realize that he needs to get out of the range and attack long distance as I was saying. Aura and Weapons seem to still be the only thing Jay really has, so yeah, zoning, cloning, projectiles will all just whittle the guy down through sheer numbers and versatility imo

0-2 Ethan I think?
 
Jay opens up with sticky fingers, so he'll have the stats right off the bat. At that point, it's just a matter of landing one or two good hits. If he bites Ethan, he can actually take his abilities. Jay's curse magic also breaks people down and absorbs them, so he can negate durability and gain his magic anyway.
 
Right, I was thinking on that bite ability, unfortunately, Ethan is smart enough to know that someone going for a bite is most likely going to try something fishy, especially after he notices has his power is reduced and goes long range. So not only does Jay have to get close, getting around the many many traps Ethan can set up that deal some solid damage (7 Megatons is Baseline for City Level right- so 15 isn't too bad, 1 or 2 hits is probably not gonna be enough)

I don't see anything about Duranegating Curse Magic, maybe I'm looking at the wrong place? How does it work? Is it some Thaos Snap stuff? If it is, Ethan will simply just have to hide well and pull out a lot of projectiles, clones, illusions, traps, and distractions
 
Curse magic breaks down the things it touches, basically matter manipulation. Jay sets up traps as well and is good at dealing with tricky opponents.
 
Ethan resists Matter Manip to an extent, but still, assuming it's effective, it's still close range, Ethan would be trying to stay more than 150 feet away at all times after experiencing Sticky Fingers, and as an XRW, he's really used to running away like a wuss all the time. Speaking of XRWs, Ethan's (by extension, all Protags) intellect is the only thing going for them when they are fighting the sea of tricky opponents as well, the amount of tricks he has should be enough to whittle Jay down to the point when he can win with a fire attack to beat Demonic Essense.

Remember, Jay is the pursuer here, so his traps are much harder to lure Ethan into than Ethan's are by nature, since the one that flees controls where the enemy is going because they need to chase, meaning that Ethan's Traps are much more likely to be hazards than Jay's are. Ethan knows this, and most likely knows that Jay knows this as well after some running. He'll use more clones (which all look the same as him) to start splitting up to divert which way Jay's gotta go, making him choose one to follow. He may be able to take a clone down as easily as he can Ethan, if not faster, but that not only leads to more distancing to attack from far far away, but can probably make Jay more upset and start doing more predictable moves.

Even if he somehow gets in range, Ethan's knowledge of martial arts both from the human world and Deities should keep him from being bitten, and will use his elemental weapons to retaliate, though he would most likely be looking for a chance to run away, which one of the Deity Arts emphasizes (will update Ethan about that later), this would be easier with Lightning Dash and Super Signal, but that's restricted

Speaking of Super Signal, while it's not usable here, Ethan has 4 other forms he can use to his advantage if he really needs it, Ember Overdrive increases his attack power to get the win even earlier along with a significant speed boost to let him stay ahead, Frostbite Nova's Absolute Zero may be resisted, but it makes his hazards like Freeze Bombs, Ice Spikes, and Crystal Mist much more dangerous to touch (even potentially getting much larger if he chooses), Tectonic Armor is also pretty useful here on the off chance Jay gets close for a bite, as he's gonna be chewing on a really frickin tough rock instead of Ethan, doubt his Curse Magic will directly affect him either. Lastly, Aerial Maven let's Ethan fly to the point where close range combat... Isn't gonna be happening much
 
I forgot about this earlier, but Jay can see souls and discern the true person from clones or illusions, so that's basically useless against jay.
 
I see, so he has a 6th Sense too, understandable.

This doesn't exactly stop Ethan from using these clones to sneak attack or even for manuverability to get away. The more he runs away, the more time he has to make a plan or theory to lure Jay into his traps, for example, block all sides off with ice based hazards, and just blast Jay with multiple Inferno Beams at full power with Ember Overdrive, which would definitely be dealing some damage to him
 
I guess I'll redo my arguments because I admittedly forgot some stuff about Jay that's really important to this battle.

Jay ends up with an over 6x AP advantage thanks to Sticky Fingers, and he spams elemental magic similarly to Ethan. Jay's magic also has the added advantage of being inherently reality warping and info-manipulation in nature, which Ethan doesn't resist in this key. Saving throws won't stop jay from being damaged by attacks, but jay's stolen durability and constantly-on aura shield will, and they will stop them from auto-negating his Regenerationn.

Fire/Ice/Lightning can negate demon regen because those types of magic are typically better at directly damaging cells, which isn't gonna happen with what I said above.

What's worth noting is that Ethan doesn't have any method of seeing Jay's aura or knowing how it works, and Jay can still his senses, rendering him blind, deaf, paralyzed, etc. Hell, he can even steal his fighting skills and intelligence, something he took advantage of. Jay's main aura reaches out to 150 feet, but he can focus that to go out WAY more, basically giving him invisible projectiles and blasts, as well as things like tethers and even enhancing his weapons with them to give them extra range. It's thought-based, and Ethan has no way to know what it is or how it's activated. All he gets is that Jay was able to steal his power through completely unknown means.

Ethan's main attacks are spamming elements, and Jay likes to directly chomp down on magic (something he takes advantage of against every mage he fights, even against things that would otherwise kill him), that means he's going to get Ethan's abilities just by eating them as they come. Jay gets severely stronger, faster, and tougher right off the bat, and that gap just continues to grow the more the battle goes on. Even if Ethan can damage him (which even doing that will prove difficult), Jay's high-mid regen and saving throws stop anything he does from lasting. Even if Ethan manages to damage Jay heavily, second wind kicks in and turns this into a sheer AP stomp FAST.

Anything fire, ice, or lightning-related gets nullified by Jay's aura, which can take on those properties. He's dealt with fire/ice/thunder users before using that direct strategy, by literally absorbing their attacks and turning them against them. Jay has a LOT Of methdos of taking powers from others.

Ethan's strategies of laying traps and trying to run away is countered by Jay's enhanced senses. He's seriously on three different layers: Having incredibly enhanced hearing to the point of sonar, being able to see souls and mana, and having instinctive reactions that work even against danmaku. That counters clone sneak attacks and it means Jay will always know where Ethan is.

Overall, Ethan just doesn't have a good counter he can get off in time. It's not a stomp, as Ethan could definitely figure out a way to beat him given time, but Jay has too many bases covered for that to be a reliable victory.

In short, don't underestimate the powers of a grimoire.
 
Oh that's how it works? I see. I thought Reality Warping wasn't combat applicable (Using Energy in ORW is technically Reality Warping, since in short, Energy IS pretty much anything, but I wasn't sure if that was something that I am supposed to put on the page), so... Ethan probably can resist it if it's in that way? If not, probably a stomp?

Ethan actually has 6th Sense, which I mentioned before (in short, it's broken, its basically able to sense.... Anything, it's debatabley NLF, but it's training based), so he'll be able to understand that the aura exists, but has to deduce what it does himself, which he will likely figure out quickly. 6th Sense is NOT a natrual thing he has, and therefore CANNOT be stolen if my information is correct. I can guarantee that he will at least figure out that Aura exists, and will be able to see these invisible blasts. Even more, he has incredible sensory abilities too, he could detect the moisture in the air, heat, vibrations in the air and ground, even the most minute of electricity, which as Jay's bioelectricity or basically anything with electrons in it. Invisible Aura Blasts likely create high amounts of kinetic energy

Now, I would say that this is already an AP/Dura stomp fast, especially if Saving Throws exist. (No idea where 6x AP comes from, can you explain?). Ethan doesn't really have a way to beat Jay in this case if that is the deal, but as an ORW, he's dealt with these cases before and strategy has always been his thing. I didn't put this in all ORW pages yet, and I was planning to but then this battle happened, so apologies. ORWs have a special ability called "Energizing", what it basically means is that it makes the surrounding enviorment more "powerful". I don't know how to explain it, but here's an example

  • If you dropped a building on a regular human, they die. Pretty obvious
  • If you dropped a building on an Energized Human (basically superhuman, like literally anyone on FC/OC, whatever tier they are), they live. Also pretty obvious
  • If you dropped an Energized building on an Energized Human (superhuman, 7-B, 6-A, whatever), it basically replicates the first scenario, they die
In short, it makes the surrounding enviorment what they are compared to the fighters, so for example, punching an Energized Wall as an Energized Human is gonna feel like if you or me were to punch a wall, painful. This is why I initially assumed Super Signal/Lightning Dash was restricted, because that uses Energized Lightning, which means Ethan would always be moving 41000+x faster using it (basically how much faster lightning is compared to an athletic human). I'm not sure if you'll allow this, but should Ethan be able to use Lightning Dash/Super Signal now? By the way, any efforts aside from getting out of the way from say, a falling building, like trying to hold it up with water... Likely won't work as Energized Enviorment will always be superior

Now I didn't know Jay can just chomp down on his actual attack to gain his power, I though he actually had to bite him. As soon as Ethan observes this, he's going to stop, like, immediately. He'll then have to move on to his strategy of using Energized Enviorment to fight instead, so even using something like a baseball bat is actually scary now, even if someone was 6x stronger than him. Since this is SBA, Ethan has a lot of material in NYC to work with, such as turning on cars, putting rocks on the gas pedals, and making it just completely run Jay over (this is an Energized Car, meaning it's likelyhood of killing is pretty high. Ethan's many elements can help him traverse the area effectively, and flight STILL is very applicable here to stay out of range, 150 feet isn't that much, and he'll just have to watch for the focused parts of it with his VERY potent 6th Sense. He's really really good at running away, especially if Lightning Dash isn't restricted here. He could run to a train station and bait Jay to get into a train track before teleporting safely as Jay gets one shotted by an Energized Train. These however, won't work the first time, as Demonic Essense exists. But all that means is that Ethan is just gonna have to charge the train with electricity or something like that to counter it the next time. He could also figure out a method to say, fight in a steel mill and bait a trap to drop Jay into Energized molten steel. Construction sites are also really helpful here, where he could simply hotwire the entire place. These may not work on their own, but Ethan can combine plenty of scenarios that can push Jay into a corner and be unable to defend against the Energized enviornment's sheer power. He's an absolute combat genius, so he would be able to figure out these strategies ridiculously quickly, unlike me, who would take at least a day or two to come up with something. He's learned from someone who fought a person with infinite speed, attack, and durability before as well as, coincidentally, a power stealer that uses his powers more effectively than he can, except he can't use powers himself (unlike in this scenario, where it's a power copy, because Ethan's abilities aren't natrual, but something he didn't ever have until he was trained) in the same arc, and has foughten a similar person himself before as well. 6x is something he could handle, since he's done it before under possibly worse conditions. Coupled with everything else though will just change the scenario a bit.

In short form, Ethan STILL can manage a win. Because an ORW's brain and 6th Sense (which cannot be stolen, and even if it can, Ethan can just recreate it, since it's something that he can generate himself) is what makes them defeat the odds, and honestly, is the only reason why they are truly formidable.

  • AP Advantage -> Energized Enviorment Strat, using powers to help Manuver and make things happen
  • Invisible Aura -> Unstealable 6th Sense
  • Power Steal -> Won't use powers for offensive purposes
  • Demonic Essense -> Use powers to deal the finishing blow, because biting an Energized Train or something... Isn't going to help
  • Is Lightning Dash/Super Signal allowed now?
 
Also, I should mention that Tectonic Armor utilizes Energized Rock for defense meaning that it's ridiculous how durable it is.

Since the enviorment is powered up by Energy artificially, it can't exactly be stolen by Sticky Fingers either. Even if it was possible to be stolen, Ethan can just Energize the enviorment again

Honestly, if Energized Enviorment isn't gonna work, it... Might be a stomp? I'm currently trying to figure out what Ethan can do if it doesn't? Things will probably come to mind in time

Energized Enviorment also helps with obviously, defending, even a simple house wall can actually defend because if it's Energized state, all Ethan needs to do is get behind it, and Ember Overdrive's speed amp should help with that, as it isn't as absurd as Lightning Amps (still asking if they should be allowed). Speed Amps aren't illegal as long as the slower one doesn't win through said speed Amps, if I recall, those rules are weird
 
6x AP advantage. Ethan is 95 megatons. Jay is 15 Megatons. Jay steals that with sticky fingers. Unless you argue that Jay steals all of it, which means jay just sort of slaps with anything.
 
It's done through through ORW's equivalent of magic (so basically magic) unfortunately for Jay

Still going to stand with Energized Enviorment Strat regardless
 
In any case, if Ethan tries to energize something with elements, jay just sucks it up with his aura and gets even stronger.
 
Doesn't really matter, Energized Enviorment will always scale to Jay's power, so a train is always gonna one shot. Elements are now just there for the finishing blow. I doubt Jay can chomp a way a giant train and have it do nothing to him

Again, I don't think he can even suck it up at all either, since it's via magic- oh wait is this the biting technique? Yeah, he can only bite one thing at a time, unless he has multiple mouths. How is he going to manage eating a giant collapsing building with Energized steel bars falling on top of him when his mouth can only cover so little area, (after all, a steel bar is bound to be larger than his mouth, so while he may take some Energy, if possible, the rest of it still is going to annihilate him, meanwhile, there's also probably a car, wrecking ball, and a bunch of other crap he has to eat while trying to eat a small piece of a giant collapsing building, which should already be enough to one shot
 
That's the thing, though. Jay absorbs the energized elements with his aura, and the environment can't do shit against his regen, which means Ethan can't put jay down nearly as easy as Jay can put him down.

I guess I need to clarify that jay has several ways of absorbing things:

-Sticky Fingers absorbs traits by stealing them directly from enemies, this takes things like the AP gap and fighting skill. While jay can't directly steal techniques with sticky fingers, he CAN steal ethan's energy reserves.

-Biting is used for foes directly, and drains them like vampires drain blood from people. Even against hardened skin, his fangs pierce people with AP advantages.

-Curse Magic has the natural trait of dissolving and absorbing things.

-His normal aura can absorb elements without needing Sticky fingers to do it. Fire, Ice, Lightning, all that he can just convert normally, something he's taken advantage of every time somebody's tried to use those elements against him.

He's basically got a counter for all of Ethan's tricks, and remember that Jay will ALWAYS know where he is thanks to enhanced senses, and things coming at him from every direction is countered by deedee's enhanced senses.
 
Sticky Fingers can now sap all of Ethan's EP now? That's a pretty large blow, and I will admit Ethan is definitely at an initial disadvantage if not stomped right there and then, especially if his Items aren't allowed (which can fully restore EP). Thankfully, things like Energizing (typically, a battlefield always is Energized when two Energized people fight, Ethan typically doesn't need to go over and touch it himself), changing forms, and such like electrifying things barely, if not at all, need Energy at all. (It's pretty complex how it works, but it's still a technique, not a trait)

Okay, before we continue, we have to decide if Ethan can use Lightning Dash/Super Signal and have access to his items, because this is starting to look more like a stomp the more I learn about Jay (If he does, when he retreats he would chug one down)

Biting and Curse Magic isn't going to do much since Ethan will always be in far range.

It's pretty clear that nothing from Ethan's arsenal offensively is going to work, ever. Which means it all comes down to if the Energized Enviorment can be effective.

First off, how is he going to recognize that things are clear threats? Well, I guess he probably has an answer for that huh...

Regardless, he may be able to absorb the elements from Etha since he's weaker than him, but something from a Energized Power Cable is completely different, the power difference would be massive due to the mechanics of Energizing Enviorment to the point where a passive Aura shield probably isn't going to be enough, it would be like a rubber tire trying to completely insulate a powerful lightning strike- it's not gonna withstand it (plus, doesn't normal aura just completely negate the weakness to the elements anyways? if so what's the point of the weakness? Is there some loophole?). With New York City's electricity, Ethan has a lot of opportunities to completely zap Jay with Energized Electricity. He just needs to figure out how he can do so. There's multiple ways, even with DeeDee's and Jay's incredible senses, they can still undermine some insignificant details

  • Go into the sewers to lead Jay there and fight in some water, since Jay is focused on the real him, a clone can easily come down with a broken high voltage powerline, which would be absolutely devastating when it zaps Jay
  • Shoot fire/heat into the sky to create an Energized Thunderstorm, or heck, make means of creating an Energized Hailstorm. Whatever is the case, start heading to metallic areas or run up really tall buildings with Magnetism, since Jay is the aggressor, Ethan is the one luring him to be zapped by an Energized lightning strike, which, at that point, comes down to complete luck if he survives, VERY few people have lived a lightning strike. So Energized Lightning vs Energized Human (Jay), would be the same case
  • Quite literally any house has the capability to absolutely zap someone to death, Ethan can go into a house and turn on every single bathtub, every sink, every shower, break every toilet, and the whole house is now a complete hazard and may just flood the entire apartment building or even a street, cut the powerline, and Jay's through. At least in theory
This is assuming that Jay isn't able to absorb Energized Lightning, which as I said above, is very unlikely

There is also another way for Ethan to win, NYC is near water, near even the ocean, arguably. Ethan can take a dive in there as Jay follows, Energize the water so that the water pressure is immense to the point where Jay can't get out and drowns, and then easily teleporting out of the water, leaving Jay to drown. If they both somehow get stuck, Ethan's stamina is... Absurd

Lastly, if the worst comes, Ethan can always just keep his distance from Jay for an inconclusive match. Since while Jay may know exactly where he is, Ethan has a ridiculously huge amount of ways to make a get away while trying multiple things to attack.
 
At the very least, Ethan definitely has the potential to win this battle of it isn't likely. ORWs make the smallest odds the likely ones.

But if these points are somehow countered, I'm seriously going to be confused how Ethan can pull out a win if his everything just doesn't do crap passively
 
Btw, Energy has some H1-B or 1-A hax smurf stuff, so Energized Enviorment is gonna be VERY hard to simply absorb or negate, which is why I doubted that Jay can simply absorb it to be a non-threat (it's attack potency still varies based on who is there though, so being hit by a train is not being hit by a 1-A attack)
 
I don't think 1-A stuff will be much of a problem. Jay is technically a fragment of this lady. Is this liable for a vote change? I'll settle for incon and we can end the thread.
 
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