Jay vs Apollyon (0-3-0)

[Jackythejack]

Uuuuh I was told to make this so idk. Final key for both. I've been told there's no need for a speed equal so no speed equal here.

Jay Grimoire

Apollyon Bela

 

[Phoenks]

Lots of abilities on both sides...

Anyway can you summarize their most useful abilities (That will actually work on the other)? Along with all the passives and whatnots?

Thankyou in advanced.

 

[Jackythejack]

(Mainly copy-pased so forgive me)

So in terms of what works, both of them have that whole "Resists everything in the verse but that resistance decreases with injury and fatigue" thing that the setting's physiology allows for. Both of them have distinct resistances to all of the other's best stuff for the most part.

-Jay has an incredible level of resistance to Auras, and being a Demon lord he's strong enough to resist Apollyon's corruption for extended periods of time. With the Power of Dominance, he can copy Apollyon's curses and absorb them into himself to also use them.

-Apollyon has an incredible level of resistance to mental effects of all kinds, and she's strong enough to resist Devour even if Jay manages to get it off. Plus, with Angra Mainyu, she can copy any curse Jay uses against her, which means getting a hold of devour.

Things that just aren't working:

-Apollyon: Absolute Zero (Her resistance is far above AZ temperature), Abyss Magic (She can return through Demon Gates), Any sort of Mind/Empathic Manipulation (Her resistance is just way too high through resisting Angra Mainyu)
-Jay: Mirror BFR (Through the Void he can travel back), Fusionism/Matter Fuckery (He'll take control of any inorganic matter he's transmuted into as shown with the cursed coins), Any sort of Mind/Empathic Manipulation (His resistance is just way too high through resisting the Power of Dominance)

Both of them resist many of the other's instant wins on average. Wincons for both of them once they wear eachother down enough are:

-Apollyon: Pertification Eye, Profaned Darkness, Card Sealing, Synthesized Poisons, Name Steal (Though it would only work on one of Jay's souls at a time, it could still deprive him of abilities and his aspects)

-Jay: Void Attacks, Time Manipulation, Sticky Fingers, Hellblaze, Devour (Though he couldn't absorb or control her soul, he can incapacitate her by trapping it inside him)


For Counters or similar things they both have:
Draconic Brain = NetWeave
Angra Mainyu = Power of Dominance
Devour = Shadow Absorption
Sparking = Accelerated Development/Adaptation

Both have equal power and speed at a base level Both have multiple selves to help in battle for very similar things
-Deedee = Cu Chulainn
-Vivi = Medea
-Terminus = Kriemhild

Both of them can kill the other through Jay reducing her to something she can't regenerate from, and Apollyon pulling the heart stab > decapitate > soul attack that all demons are vulnerable to.

For Advantages:

Apollyon:
-Exceptional skill advantage
-Higher range and AOE
-Likely won't be shaken by Jay's annoyances
-Has curses Jay can't copy easily, like Adaptation and Lunette's curse
-Can destroy much of Jay's equipment
-More level head

Jay:
-More mobility
-More creative
-More versatile attacks
-Numbers advantage through Familiars
-Primarily uses abilities Apollyon can't copy, like magic and weaponry
-Greater equipment variety

 

[Jackythejack]

bump

 

[Jackythejack]

bump

 

[Phoenks]

So after discussing this with Corrin I think I've reached a conclusion on who I think takes the match. Allow me to explain. Starting with Jay.

On paper, Jay's abilities sound a lot more impressive and game-changing. He has a lot of abilities, and the ones listed as wincons are a lot more potent and useful than Apollyon's. I was especially concerned with his Void Attacks (Apollyon is specifically not great against) and touch-based abilities (Sticky Fingers would be a nigh-instant win. Devour could lead to incap) because it seemed like he could pull a quick combination of the two to end the match very quickly. An example would be him using the void attacks to weaken Apollyon before going in for the sweep with one of his insta-win powers.

After all, one of his go-to moves is creating a Void Blade to fight with. Jay was also the more versatile one out of the two and generally seems to have more options in every situation. I originally sided with Jay for these reasons because I felt that Apollyon lacked the sheer potency to deal with Jay's more crazy hax, but upon further inspection, I've changed my mind.

Apollyon's abilities, while milder, have a far greater range and seemed to be used more consistently.

Corrin says she opens up with her Petrification Eye, which while resisted, would reduce Jay's speed by half. This is a decent advantage, but it is made even greater by her own stat amps to boost her speed. On top of this, she is known to use danmaku of profaned darkness and surround the area with her corruption, which could easily eat away at Jay's strength. The moment the match starts, Jay would be at quite the disadvantage.

This alone isn't enough, though, as Jay has ways of mitigating the effects and possesses his own stat amps as well. And while Apollyon's energy blasts and chaos magic would be difficult to deal with, Jay has a multitude of other abilities that would put equal pressure on her.

The tides really start to turn when you look at their mental capabilities. Apollyon FAR exceeds Jay in skill, technique, and intelligence. And to make matters worse, she has precog to predict Jay's actions. Because of this, the early battle will lean very far in Apollyon's favor. Not only are her starting abilities more detrimental, but any advantage that Jay could take at the beginning is mitigated by Apollyon's precognition and skill. Jay lacks the common sense to use his more potent abilities first, so by the time he does think to use them, it might already be too late. His touch-based abilities and CQC with a sword become irrelevant when you consider the gap in skill and technique. And magic-wise, Apollyon's range advantage is apparent. His only real way of ending the match would be through Devouring or Hellblaze. However, not only is it unlikely that these would be enough given Apollyon's survivability and resistance, but she also has her own finishing move, Ultimate Magic, which is even more effective.

Overall I think that while Jay is more versatile and has stronger abilities, Apollyon's skill, technique, and approach to the battle ultimately win her the match.

Apoyllon:

• Vastly more skilled and intelligent. Has precognition to avoid/predict actions.
• Her approach to the battle and opening moves are more consistent and superior.
• Her techniques being less versatile ends up being an advantage when you consider Jay's inconsistency.
• Vastly superior range.

• Less "insta-win" abilities.
• Less powerful and versatile hax

Jay:

• More "insta-win" abilities.
• Vastly more versatile.
• Stronger hax.
• Familiars could prologue the match and weaken Apollyon.

• Less skilled and intelligent. Lacks common sense.
• Inconsistent starting moves. Mediocre approach to the fight.
• Smaller range.

Gonna vote for Apollyon.

 

[Jackythejack]

1 for Polly

 

[Paul_Frank]

Apollyon fra

 

[Jackythejack]

Polly got a 2 votes

 

[Peppypony]

it’s nice to see other users besides me, colonel, john and boss posting here on fc/oc again!

But yeah Apollyon fra.

 

[Jackythejack]

four votes left

(I'd do things with the one OC i posted to the wiki but I have no ideas for her)

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Apollyon FRA

 

[Phoenks]

Actually since this is FCOC, that's grace.

3 votes needed rather than 7.

 

[Smashtwig]

I was gonna give an opinion but the I look into the powers and I couldn't contribute from the sheer amount of unneeded wordplay, sorry.

But I do recommend making this stuff easier on the eyes

 

[Jackythejack]

Oh huh. Matches are faster here, lol.

 

[Abstractions]

Oh huh. Matches are faster here, lol.

Smaller community.

 

[Smashtwig]

Okay I tried to dig in for my own conclusion even if this is already over, I got a question about Bela's precog. As it seems to be her primary argument...

Can she just, be able to predict things she's just not aware of? Because Instant Win abilities typically Counter experience and skill. Like, can she just be walking down the street, smell some child buying jelly beans at the candy store and know that that person is just gonna stop time infinitely, go into another dimension, and 9e78x speed blitz snipe her out of existence with some bullshit H1B hax shit in precisely 0.275678 nanoseconds and then properly defend without any form of sign or signal from said person at all (all logic points to the guy being a normal dude)? If not, if Jay has an instant snap win button, Bela can't do much about it even if it's used later in the fight after Resistances wear down

If I recall, Sticky Fingers isn't touch based, rather its a passive aura that just is instantly put on Bela as soon as the fight starts without his doing anything (at least, from my match with jay, unless I got scammed), so once Bela decides to go Melee, if she tries of course

 

[Phoenks]

Neither of these characters are smurfs (anymore).

Basically, Sticky Fingers won't work at the beginning because they both resist everything at the start. The resistances weaken as they weaken each other, so it couldn't be used until later in the fight.

Apollyon has ESP and Aura Sense to aid her precognition as well.

 

[Smashtwig]

Okay I was exaggerating with the H1B hax prediction via skill... unless that's what smurf also includes. Basically I was trying to ask if she can just... predict a thanos snap out of nowhere with no evidence the person can do it whatsoever, can she do that kind of thing or is she a normal person that actually needs to experience the enemy's stuff at least once to actually predict it?

 

[Phoenks]

According to Corrin, she has info analysis that lets her see people on a cellular level and has been able to predict people's spells before.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Danger sense and such. Yes, she is capable of predicting things without having a frame of reference, though she gets better at it if she has one, naturally.

 

[Smashtwig]

Ah so it comes from sensory stuff bet

If that's the case yeah Sticky Finger no worrkie

 

[Smashtwig]

If Jay doesn't use his good stuff first, wouldn't that be an advantage in this case? When he realizes he needs his win sauce, he can totally catch Bela off guard when Resistances weaken, at least if she's on the offensive (when you're attacking its much harder to avoid stuff that comes out of nowhere even if you pick it up)

Bela is primarily a sword fighter right? Or she's just gonna go full range for this fight?

 

[Phoenks]

If Jay doesn't use his good stuff first, wouldn't that be an advantage in this case?

No because as I mentioned, Bela starts off faster and stronger at the start of the fight. She has AoE attacks and far superior range. She's more intelligent, has precognition, info analysis, aura sense, etc. If Jay doesn't do something at the beginning he'll get worn out faster due to these superiorities and her corruption.

he can totally catch Bela off guard when Resistances weaken, at least if she's on the offensive (when you're attacking its much harder to avoid stuff that comes out of nowhere even if you pick it up)

I doubt he'd be able to because of the precognition and other thingies.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

She's not really primarily an anything fighter. She adapts based on what the situation demands.