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Er Gen verse Transduality Type 2 for 4th step cultivators

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If you think 4th steps are only controlling the duality, here is Meng Hao at the ancestor realm.
The level of danger Meng Hao sensed upon that fist was the most intense he had ever felt. He had never felt power like this since Transcending. This was… a peak level power within the starry sky!
In fact, it even went beyond the natural laws of the starry sky, exceeding all limitations. This was a level of power on par with the Universe itself. This was not just simply the power of Transcendence, it went to a realm beyond that, the Ancestor Realm!
The laws is similar to the essence itself.
 
If you think 4th steps are only controlling the duality, here is Meng Hao at the ancestor realm.

The laws is similar to the essence itself.
I don't think a vague statement as "beyond the natural laws, exceeding all limitations" means something else that wasn't stated before (transcendent being above laws/essences) and if it's to argue for the transduality, I find it rather stretched ngl
 
The essence of 4th steps cultivator is different than the essence of the universe.
Just like Meng Hao.
Eyes glittering brightly, he said, “My Dao is that of freedom and independence, of being unrestrained and unfettered. I do not wish to have Heavens looming over me that belong to someone else. My Dao is my Essence. Wherever I stand, I can call upon the Essence of my Dao to dispel and shatter natural and magical laws. Nobody can expel me from this place!” He flicked his sleeve, causing the power of his Dao Essence to rumble out, changing the natural and magical laws, which twisted and shattered.
 
I don't think a vague statement as "beyond the natural laws, exceeding all limitations" means something else that wasn't stated before (transcendent being above laws/essences) and if it's to argue for the transduality, I find it rather stretched ngl
Yap! I echo this
 
And then there 5th steps who view 4th steps cultivator as nothing but canvas.
20210423_143131.jpg
 
The essence of 4th steps cultivator is different than the essence of the universe.
Just like Meng Hao.
I agree that the Essences of Daosource cultivators are different and "stronger" than "regular ones" if that's even a thing, but Meng Hao's Dao is his own and shouldn't be a thing that everyone has, except if we are now only arguing for Meng Hao's TD
 
And then there 5th steps who view 4th steps cultivator as nothing but canvas.
20210423_143131.jpg
If I were Qawsed, I would probably say that transcending the whole 4th step cultivators and seeing them as fiction wouldn't grant TD by itself, because it would mean anyone who has a similar context (Seeing something as lower-dimensional) would be granted TD, which seems very stretched.
 
If I were Qawsed, I would probably say that transcending the whole 4th step cultivators and seeing them as fiction wouldn't grant TD by itself, because it would mean anyone who has a similar context (Seeing something as lower-dimensional) would be granted TD, which seems very stretched.
They gains TD because they are superior to them duh.
 
They gains TD because they are superior to them duh.
But that's the same problem with 4th step cultivator no? They already are above Essences and Laws, but that's not enough to justify TD.

Also, while I'm not that knowledgeable about TD, if we need to deal with 5th step to get cultivators some form of TD, it kinda defeats the purpose of the OP/whole thread
 
But that's the same problem with 4th step cultivator no? They already are above Essences and Laws, but that's not enough to justify TD.

Also, while I'm not that knowledgeable about TD, if we need to deal with 5th step to get cultivators some form of TD, it kinda defeats the purpose of the OP/whole thread
Being non dual and superior to them is enough for TD bruh
 
But that's the same problem with 4th step cultivator no? They already are above Essences and Laws, but that's not enough to justify TD.
Yeah. The point isn't being above people who have Essences or a dual system, as that's not relevant to TD. You have to prove the person themselves are not subjected to Dual systems, personal or otherwise.
 
So you are ok with the dualities presented correct? So you want proof that Essence is qualitatively superior to these concepts, is this the main point today?
 
So you are ok with the dualities presented correct? So you want proof that Essence is qualitatively superior to these concepts, is this the main point today?
I am certainly not ok with what is being presented as duality but go ahead and address the staff concerns first
 
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@Rakih_Elyan Tone down the attitude, trying to yell at people and cursing them out isn’t helping your side to convince others. If you keep this up you will be reported.

@Qawsedf234 Can I ask what part of the scans imply there’s some dual nature going on? Because a lot of the statements sound more like the Essence existed before anything was created and it decided to create everything in existence as opposed to there being dual nature stuff involved.
 
I am certainty not ok with what is being presented as duality but go ahead and address the staff concerns first
I mean, dualities do exist, even if somehow the Essence description doesn't fit, the Hexes of Meng Hao should prove their existence :

Beginning-Ending Hex
Real-Unreal Hex
Present-Ancient Hex
Inside-Outside Hex
Life-Death Hex
Body-Mind Hex

Although I suppose some of them are debatable like Present-Ancient and Body-Mind
 
@SweetDao Do you have any scans for those dualities?
It depends on what you mean by "scan". Those are Meng Hao Hexes and for the most part, they were just simple techniques. It was around the end of the novel that he transformed them from simple techniques to literal Essences that he would absorb afterward to transcend. The following scan is probably the best thing I can show you :

 
Are these techniques elaborate upon beyond just their names? Because turning them conceptual just sounds more like they can affect things at a conceptual level, not necessarily that they become dual concepts.
 
If we stretch it, and take it with a grain of salt, since there are a few mentions of Yin-Yang techniques in the verse (that aren't really Yin-Yang, just recreating it), we could headcanon that Yin-Yang exists as a concept/Essence too, maybe it is far stretched, but I just try to give as much information as possible.
 
Well, we all cannot just go and keep repeating ourselves just to disagree on samething and agree on samething, can we? It's better to "agree to disagree" and move on. Qawsedf, deagonx is fine with dualities but qualitative superiority is what their concerns are which imo is reasonable. Not saying others are wrong but we shouldn't stretch it out to repeat the disagreements and agreements. I pretty much just want things to not go in circle.
Well, as the things has been sorted out to what is actually needed, it's good if we don't take it to argue anything unnecessary but only what is needed (superiority over duality system).
 
Are these techniques elaborate upon beyond just their names? Because turning them conceptual just sounds more like they can affect things at a conceptual level, not necessarily that they become dual concepts.
Do you mean what they do? Yes of course, Life-Death Hex for example gives Meng Hao total control over the life and death of an individual (and more depending on the situation). Present-Ancient Hex is about time manipulation, making something ancient on a whim or returning it to the present state etc etc
 
Strongly agree with Qawsedf on the matter.
I definitely didn't say I was fine with dualities.
Well, okay. Regardless. It shouldn't be repeated for the samething all over, if not yet for the scans in the OP then reaching an agreement for duality is definitely cannot be done with any other scan. So moving forward to what can be done is reasonable for me then to not.
 
Besides the name? Well, the moment they turned into Essences, his techniques became concepts, so it would mean those techniques became dual natures concepts?
Not really. We don't automatically equalize things with opposing natures as dualities unless they're defined that way.
The most common thing will be the 2 sides of the same coin, being both equal and opposite, 1 not being able to exist without the other etc
 
Not really. We don't automatically equalize things with opposing natures as dualities unless they're defined that way.
The most common thing will be the 2 sides of the same coin, being both equal and opposite, 1 not being able to exist without the other etc
Then I doubt there is anything that can prove it tbf, maybe there is some hidden sentence that says X and Y are opposite but even that wouldn't cover all the problems I assume.
 
Anyway, to remind supporters for the most important matter at hand that still was in discussion. A "scan" or a "context" that essence has been transcended or not being subjected to essence is needed (for what I've read there are still things that can be provided (?)).
 
Anyway, to remind supporters for the most important matter at hand that still was in discussion. A "scan" or a "context" that essence has been transcended or not being subjected to essence is needed (for what I've read there are still things that can be provided (?)).
The scan saying that the Daosource exceeded Essence isn't enough?
 
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