Engineer vs Torbjörn

[koopa3144]

• Fight takes place in 2fort
• Engineer starts in red spawn while Torbjörn starts in blu
• Engineer is in his Robot War/Australium Chase key and has all his 9-A equipment
• an alternate way of wining is taking and capturing the intel
• both have a minute of prep

Engineer: 0

Torbjörn: 0

Incon: 0

 

[DaReaperMan]

Torb travels down the way, finds Engi's nest, sets up shop with his turret, and uses far superior long-range options to snipe at his turret before going in with his own turret.

 

[koopa3144]

Torb travels down the way, finds Engi's nest, sets up shop with his turret, and uses far superior long-range options to snipe at his turret before going in with his own turret.

engi could wangle his sentry and snipe back.

 

[DaReaperMan]

engi could wangle his sentry and snipe back.

in the time it'd take Engi to wrangle his sentry Torb could have already landed a kill shot on it, or he could've landed a shot on the engineer, and let me tell you, getting hit by what's essentially an oversized superheated iron bolt and having it pierce is gonna hurt like HELL and not heal easy.

 

[koopa3144]

in the time it'd take Engi to wrangle his sentry Torb could have already landed a kill shot on it, or he could've landed a shot on the engineer, and let me tell you, getting hit by what's essentially an oversized superheated iron bolt and having it pierce is gonna hurt like HELL and not heal easy.

I feel like the sentry should be able to take the hits due to taking reduced damage when wrangled.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I feel like the sentry should be able to take the hits due to taking reduced damage when wrangled.

he won't instantly wrangle it, especially since he has no prior knowledge of Torb's gun and no real way to know that the gun would be pretty bad for his sentry to get hit by.

 

[koopa3144]

wait, how would torb even be able to snipe engi's sentry? he would probably build his sentry around a corner or inside the intel room.

 

[DaReaperMan]

wait, how would torb even be able to snipe engi's sentry? he would probably build his sentry around a corner or inside the intel room.

What says Engi would do that? We know literally nothing about how he'd usually place sentries outside of where he can get the most area covered possible

 

[koopa3144]

What says Engi would do that? We know literally nothing about how he'd usually place sentries outside of where he can get the most area covered possible

Hes is pretty combat smart; I feel like if Hes's fight someone he has no info about he would probably play it safe and try to get a jump on them with a sentry around a corner.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Hes is pretty combat smart; I feel like if Hes's fight someone he has no info about he would probably play it safe and try to get a jump on them with a sentry around a corner.

eh... I don't know about that, he's actually not got much, if any, fighting in the comics. he didn't even fight in the Robot War and instead hung around with the Administator. So what we know of his usual sentry comes from the various meet the videos he has appeared in.

 

[koopa3144]

eh... I don't know about that, he's actually not got much, if any, fighting in the comics. he didn't even fight in the Robot War and instead hung around with the Administator. So what we know of his usual sentry comes from the various meet the videos he has appeared in.

at least engi should be smart enough to not put his sentry in a sightline, for all he knows he could be fighting a sniper.

 

[DaReaperMan]

at least engi should be smart enough to not put his sentry in a sightline, for all he knows he could be fighting a sniper.

Uh, that'd be a neat trick, considering Torbjorn LOOKS like an engineer himself. He's got the welding mask(I forget what it's called) and everything lol

 

[TheGatememer]

So uh, what stops Engie from just, shooting Torb? Engi resists all of Torb’s attacks, and has a massive AP advantage, and has Kritz and Uber on top of that. Even if Torb does manage to harm Engie, he has regen, and Dispensers.

And Engineer’s Sentries are much more durable than he is. And he can also wrangle them. And he can build multiple. And he can instantly repair them and upgrade them to max with Canteens.

 

[DaReaperMan]

So uh, what stops Engie from just, shooting Torb? Engi resists all of Torb’s attacks, and has a massive AP advantage, and has Kritz and Uber on top of that. Even if Torb does manage to harm Engie, he has regen.

And Engineer’s Sentries are much more durable than he is. And he can also wrangle them. And he can build multiple.

His foot being stuck in the floor by a big ass bolt thing, now he's got one of the exact same makeup in his head. Torbjorn has had to fight OR-14s which can literally one-shot him weekly and Bastion Units which can hard shred him daily in the omnic crisis. Tell me, who has Engi fought that can one-shot him? Has he fought multiple of them in a single day(Null Sector incident) with the aphor mentioned Bastion units backing them up? And when has Engi used his canisters or really anything along those lines? He never even fought in the robot wars!

Not on the profile mate, also Torbjorn has a better gun by miles. And he can replace his turrets MANY times faster than Engi can build them. And he can also build multiple, he just doesn't do it often at all.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

What stops Torb from just shooting a ton of molten slag on engineer and his turrets from a distance and then just watching the man burn to death?

 

[Abstractions]

Even if Torb does manage to harm Engie, he has regen, and Dispensers.

Nitpicking, but regeneration is an unknown, we don't know what level it is and we can't exactly jump to the conclusion that it's comparable to Medic's Healing. Torbjorn can also prevent access to his sentry, teleporters, or dispenser through Molten Core.

If we assume he's wrangling (but we for some reason indicate that he's using all of his equipment despite having a loadout) then his ranged options become limited by comparison to Torbjorn at that stage, Rivet Gun vs. Shotguns and all.

It's a game of range and more reliable setup vs. sheer firepower, I'm remaining neutral for now.

 

[Livinmeme]

Anyway....... If engin feels atacked he would probally spam the short circuit

 

[DaReaperMan]

Anyway....... If engin feels atacked he would probally spam the short circuit

Not useful on literally having molten Iron poured all over his everything

 

[koopa3144]

I still feel like engi would be smart enough to set up a with trap his sentries around a conner or something.

 

[TheGatememer]

His foot being stuck in the floor by a big ass bolt thing, now he's got one of the exact same makeup in his head.

Engineer is wearing a helmet, has like an 8x AP advantage on top of Resistance to Projectile and Fire Damage, and he Has Uber Canteens. Unless it’s a Dura-Negging Bolt, it’s barely even gonna scratch Engie. And He also has Class 5 LS, so it’s not gonna pin him down.

Torbjorn has had to fight OR-14s which can literally one-shot him weekly and Bastion Units which can hard shred him daily in the omnic crisis. Tell me, who has Engi fought that can one-shot him?

Spy, Heavy, probably Soldier, and some Giant Robots.

Has he fought multiple of them in a single day(Null Sector incident)

Yes, like for several months straight, he’s fought hundreds, if not thousands of Robots daily during the Robot War.

with the aphor mentioned Bastion units backing them up? And when has Engi used his canisters or really anything along those lines? He never even fought in the robot wars!

You’re confusing the Robot War with Australium Chase. Engie fought in the Robot Wars, but was absent for the Australium Chase.

Not on the profile mate, also Torbjorn has a better gun by miles. And he can replace his turrets MANY times faster than Engi can build them. And he can also build multiple, he just doesn't do it often at all.

Base Engie has enough Metal to replace his Sentries multiple times, and upgrade them in a short timeframe, as seen in Expiration Date). This Engie has a much larger metal supply, has much faster construction speed, and his Metal Supply also regenerates, and has a Gun that returns metal depending on how much damage he deals with it. Oh yeah, his Building Canteens also fully repairs, and upgrades all his Buildings to Lvl 3. So Engie could plop down multiple Lvl 1s, then a second later upgrade them all to Level 3.

So how does Torb win against someone with an 8x AP and Dura advantage, Higher LS, resistance to all his attacks, on demand Kritz and Invulnerability, Regeneration and Healing from Regen/Dispensers, Teleportation via Teleporters, Eureka Effect, and Canteens to instantly get away, a **** ton of Sentries that track Torb’s every move, all of which deal even more than even Engineer does, which he can instantly heal and/or replace and fully upgrade within a second, and can also wrangle them?

 

[DaReaperMan]

yes, he should, but all the spots we've seen him put his turrets in generally cover the most area he possibly can with them. He did this in his own meet the video and Demoman's meet the video, if I recall correctly, he did this in Spy's meet the video as well.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Engineer is wearing a helmet, has like an 8x AP advantage on top of Resistance to Bullet and Fire Damage, and he Has Uber Canteens. Unless it’s a Dura-Negging Bolt, it’s barely even gonna scratch Engie. And He also has Class 5 LS, so there’s that.

Spy, Heavy, probably Soldier, and some Giant Robots.

Yes, like for several months straight, he’s fought hundreds, if not thousands of Robots daily during the Robot War.

You’re confusing the Robot War with Australium Chase. Engie fought in the Robot Wars, but was absent for the Australium Chase.

Base Engie has enough Metal to replace his Sentries multiple times, and upgrade them in a short timeframe, as seen in Expiration Date). This Engie has a much larger metal supply, has much faster construction speed, and his Metal Supply also regenerates, and has a Gun that returns metal depending on how much damage he deals with it. Oh yeah, his Building Canteens also fully repairs, and upgrades all his Buildings to Lvl 3. So Engie could plop down multiple Lvl 1s, then a second later upgrade them all to Level 3.

So how does Torb win against someone with an 8x AP and Dura advantage, Higher LS, resistance to all his attacks, on demand Kritz and Invulnerability, Regeneration and Healing from Regen/Dispensers, Teleportation via Teleporters, Eureka Effect, and Canteens to instantly get away, a **** ton of Sentries that track Torb’s every move, all of which deal even more than even Engineer does, which he can instantly heal and/or replace and fully upgrade within a second, and can also wrangle them?

okay, I'm gonna be very, VERY blunt here. Can ya'll for once ****** decide whether the Robot War mercs scale to 0.007 or 0.066 tons??? like seriously! there's no definitive answer I'm getting here! make a CRT and sodding decide it PLEASE! also the resistances either don't apply or arent sufficient(Or weren't used proveably). oh and also the little fact that the feat takes place in Australium Chase if your arguing they're seperate so Engi has no reason to scale to the 0.066 ons anyway.

Spy consistently completely and utterly overwhelms engi. Heavy hasn't fought Engi on-screen. And I'll get to Robot war stuff below.

Last I checked, the robot wars and australium chase are literally the same thing. Any statements that Engi actually participated? Cause far as I know, he didn't. with TF2 being what it is, I don't trust the Mann vs Machine cinematic to actually be accurate to Engi's involvement.

mind backing that up with a source? cause I just watched Expiration date and no deal, I barely even saw Dell in the fight. I saw him building twice. and I saw him swinging like crazy to get that damn thing up the second time. You wanna know how long it takes Torb to get his sentry up? one swing of the hammer. just one. less than a second. for all we know Engi can put up his sentries in ten seconds and shave off 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds with his construction time with upgrades because we just don't know. also I want definitive proof Engineer used the canteens. if you can't provide that, well, they're Out Of Character to use and can't be argued

see above. because what your arguing has the simple fact of lack of proof he does it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

also assuming Engi gets full upgrades is completely Asinine as he never gets enough cash in-game to get em all.

 

[TheGatememer]

okay, I'm gonna be very, VERY blunt here. Can ya'll for once ****** decide whether the Robot War mercs scale to 0.007 or 0.066 tons??? like seriously! there's no definitive answer I'm getting here! make a CRT and sodding decide it PLEASE!

It’s literally on the profile that the Robot War Marc’s scale to 0.066 tons. Right in the Durability section.

also the resistances either don't apply or arent sufficient(Or weren't used proveably).

Bullet Damage reduces damage from not just bullets, but projectiles in general, like bolts from the Rescue Ranger, and Arrows. And Fire Resistance, is well fire resistance. So it’s safe to say it applies here.

oh and also the little fact that the feat takes place in Australium Chase if your arguing they're seperate so Engi has no reason to scale to the 0.066 ons anyway.

The statistics between the Robot War Mercs and Australian Chase Mercs don’t change, hence why it’s in one key. If anything, the Australium Chase Mercs should be weaker as they haven’t fought for quite some time.

Spy consistently completely and utterly overwhelms engi. Heavy hasn't fought Engi on-screen. And I'll get to Robot war stuff below.

Heavy demolishes Soldier, as seen in Meet the Sandvich, and Soldier shouldn’t be any weaker than Engie. Two shots from a Lv 1 Sentry is seen killing a Heavy.

Last I checked, the robot wars and australium chase are literally the same thing.

Contradicts your last point, but I’ll ignore that. No, the Robot War ended when Gray Mann surrendered. Australium Chase happens several months after the events of the Robot War, when Gray Mann takes over Mann Co.

Any statements that Engi actually participated? Cause far as I know, he didn't. with TF2 being what it is, I don't trust the Mann vs Machine cinematic to actually be accurate to Engi's involvement.

Literally no reason Engie wouldn’t be involved as he was hired by Hale to kill robots in a Fate Worse Than Chess but here: https://www.teamfortress.com/shadowboxers/#f=4

mind backing that up with a source? cause I just watched Expiration date and no deal, I barely even saw Dell in the fight. I saw him building twice. and I saw him swinging like crazy to get that damn thing up the second time. You wanna know how long it takes Torb to get his sentry up? one swing of the hammer. just one. less than a second. for all we know Engi can put up his sentries in ten seconds

More like he can get a Lv 3 up in 10 Seconds, but sure.

also I want definitive proof Engineer used the canteens. if you can't provide that, well, they're Out Of Character to use and can't be argued

I don't have to prove a negative. Burden of proof is on you.

see above. because what your arguing has the simple fact of lack of proof he does it.

Okay.

0.0658/0.00839=7.84266984505 times AP Difference. More than the 7.5x Difference needed to One-shot. He is also listed as "Higher" With Sentries

Engineer's LS is Class 5, Torb's is Unknown.

Engineer's Resistances. Includes Bullet Damage and Fire Damage. Bullet Damage includes other projectiles like arrows and syringes.

Canteens, which includes the Crit Canteen (Triples his damage and sentry firing speed for 5 seconds), and the Uber Canteen, which makes him invulnerable for 5 seconds, and reduces damage to his sentry by 90%.

Health Regen Upgrade

Teleporters, Eureka Effect, Teleport to Spawn Canteen

Engineer with Multiple Sentries

Sentry Tracking

Engineer's profile says "Higher With Sentries"

Upgrade Canteen Fully Restores Health and Upgrades to Lv 3

Wrangler

There's your proof.

 

[TheGatememer]

I forgot that I genuinely don't have the energy to debate TF2 anymore after the last CRT so this will be my last comment. Just for the sake of my argument, we can be super generous, and ignore literally all of his upgrades, which includes the 75% damage resistances against Torb's weapons, his invulnerability, his critical hits which deal triple damage, his teleportation, his regeneration, and his metal regeneration, etc.

Literally none of that matters because speed is equal, and Torb dies to a single bullet because of the AP difference, either by Engineer himself, or one of his five or more tracking sentries. Firing a Bullet is faster, and far less risky than trying to pour molten slag on an opponent. Especially if said opponent(s) has perfect tracking and can kill you instantly if it sees you.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bullet Damage reduces damage from not just bullets, but projectiles in general, like bolts from the Rescue Ranger, and Arrows. And Fire Resistance, is well fire resistance. So it’s safe to say it applies here.

Engineer's Resistances. Includes Bullet Damage and Fire Damage. Bullet Damage includes other projectiles like arrows and syringes.

It really wouldnt, he'd need heat resistance in general to argue he could resist Torb's stuff, and fire isnt even close to as hot as molten iron so just a baseline resistance to fire wouldnt help him

 

[DaReaperMan]

It’s literally on the profile that the Robot War Marc’s scale to 0.066 tons. Right in the Durability section.

Bullet Damage reduces damage from not just bullets, but projectiles in general, like bolts from the Rescue Ranger, and Arrows. And Fire Resistance, is well fire resistance. So it’s safe to say it applies here.

The statistics between the Robot War Mercs and Australian Chase Mercs don’t change, hence why it’s in one key. If anything, the Australium Chase Mercs should be weaker as they haven’t fought for quite some time.

Heavy demolishes Soldier, as seen in Meet the Sandvich, and Soldier shouldn’t be any weaker than Engie. Two shots from a Lv 1 Sentry is seen killing a Heavy.

Contradicts your last point, but I’ll ignore that. No, the Robot War ended when Gray Mann surrendered. Australium Chase happens several months after the events of the Robot War, when Gray Mann takes over Mann Co.

Literally no reason Engie wouldn’t be involved as he was hired by Hale to kill robots in a Fate Worse Than Chess but here: https://www.teamfortress.com/shadowboxers/#f=4

More like he can get a Lv 3 up in 10 Seconds, but sure.

I don't have to prove a negative. Burden of proof is on you.

Okay.

0.0658/0.00839=7.84266984505 times AP Difference. More than the 7.5x Difference needed to One-shot. He is also listed as "Higher" With Sentries

Engineer's LS is Class 5, Torb's is Unknown.

Engineer's Resistances. Includes Bullet Damage and Fire Damage. Bullet Damage includes other projectiles like arrows and syringes.

Canteens, which includes the Crit Canteen (Triples his damage and sentry firing speed for 5 seconds), and the Uber Canteen, which makes him invulnerable for 5 seconds, and reduces damage to his sentry by 90%.

Health Regen Upgrade

Teleporters, Eureka Effect, Teleport to Spawn Canteen

Engineer with Multiple Sentries

Sentry Tracking

Engineer's profile says "Higher With Sentries"

Upgrade Canteen Fully Restores Health and Upgrades to Lv 3

Wrangler

There's your proof.

which is indecisive because I've heard both numerous times when I've tried to argue one or the other.

do Robo engies even use the Resue Ranger? and arrows are pretty much close enough to a bullet in piercing damage, only difference is speed.

right.

You do realize that Bastion units on their own make Engineer's sentries look very weak right? even Heavy doesn't have anything near 1800 RPM of pure lead(nor do the sentries). and Torb has to fight multiple of these things. daily. they were literally the go-to frontline soldier of the entire omnic crisis. a crisis that had
tens of thousands of bastions at bare minimum per battle. all of which can shred everyone in the original strike force save for Reinhardt and even he can't stand to facetank their minigun for too long.

kk.

thank you.

it can't shoot when it's upgrading. also Engie never put up multiple sentries in Expiration date.

you can have something but not use it. I could use a dagger, would I though? just because you CAN use something, doesn't mean you WILL use something.

let's go over these all then.

I covered it above.

I've always been suspicious of Scout scaling to heavy because of the Meet the video, as it basically breaks scaling on multiple levels. but that's for a CRT(Also Torb's is like Peak human or so)

and none of that matches a super-heated bolt of molten iron. it's basically limited dura neg at that point. also Torb can just pop molten core and proceed to melt the entire sentry nest and engi. he doesn't need to get in the way for enough time to get shot, only enough for him to get one big ass blob of slag out.

canteens and regen covered above.

Engi hasn't been seen with multiple sentries since to my knowledge.

sentries takes time to start shooting anyway

not in Durability.

and the Wrangler isn't a guarenteed use considering the rest of the shit Engi has.

 

[koopa3144]

Hold on, what’s stopping engi from taking torbs intel by sneaking under him by going into the sewers and when he gets it he can teleport back to spawn with the eureka effect?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Hold on, what’s stopping engi from taking torbs intel by sneaking under him by going into the sewers and when he gets it he can teleport back to spawn with the eureka effect?

one, two, three, four, five, six... Torb likes to put his turrets in good defensive positions himself, so he'd have one turret in the only way to get to the intel from ground level.

 

[Livinmeme]

Not useful on literally having molten Iron poured all over his everything

What? The bullets and everything is getting atomized you know? Now that i think off being molten would make it far easier to atomize....

 

[Abstractions]

Short Circuit isn't permitted because it's a Tier 8 weapon.

Engineer is in his Robot War/Australium Chase key and has all his 9-A equipment

 

[Livinmeme]

|:

 

[Soupywolf5]

You do realize that Bastion units on their own make Engineer's sentries look very weak right? even Heavy doesn't have anything near 1800 RPM of pure lead(nor do the sentries). and Torb has to fight multiple of these things. daily. they were literally the go-to frontline soldier of the entire omnic crisis. a crisis that had
tens of thousands of bastions at bare minimum per battle. all of which can shred everyone in the original strike force save for Reinhardt and even he can't stand to facetank their minigun for too long.

His minigun fires 10,000 rounds per minute, that's one of the first things he says in his meet the video and is listed on his profile

 

[Livinmeme]

Ironically TF2 weapons should have been upgraded to high 7-C long ago

 

[koopa3144]

Bump

 

[CrackerVolley]

I would generally say that Engineer's tech is stronger in defensive scenarios and generally has better close range fighting with the various shotguns.
The eureka effect lets himself get out of dangerous spots easily and flank from behind. The Short Circuit basically spits in the face of the rivet gun as long as Engi has enough metal. And lets not even start on the Wrangler.

As long as Dell stays on the defensive a.ka. inside RED spawn, he should generally win more often than not.

 

[koopa3144]

Bump

 

[Livinmeme]

and the Wrangler isn't a guarenteed use considering the rest of the shit Engi has.

The wrangler is meta bullshit stuff, and one of the made function is to literally atack enemies beyond engi range. Specially when the wrangler is just a manual control for the sentry

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I would generally say that Engineer's tech is stronger in defensive scenarios and generally has better close range fighting with the various shotguns.
The eureka effect lets himself get out of dangerous spots easily and flank from behind. The Short Circuit basically spits in the face of the rivet gun as long as Engi has enough metal. And lets not even start on the Wrangler.

As long as Dell stays on the defensive a.ka. inside RED spawn, he should generally win more often than not.

Engineer doesnt have Short Circuit here, Torb's shotgun is much stronger than Engineer's on top of being superheated to a level that Engineer doesnt resist and Torb having damn good cqc skill seeing as he canonically went toe to toe with Omnics during the crisis with nothing but his hammer

Not that much of that matters when Torb can hard counter Engineer tryig to turtle shell his way to victory by just dumping a shit ton of molten iron on him and his turrets

 

[Livinmeme]

Engineer doesnt have Short Circuit here, Torb's shotgun is much stronger than Engineer's on top of being superheated to a level that Engineer doesnt resist and Torb having damn good cqc skill seeing as he canonically went toe to toe with Omnics during the crisis with nothing but his hammer

Not that much of that matters when Torb can hard counter Engineer tryig to turtle shell his way to victory by just dumping a shit ton of molten iron on him and his turrets

Eh no.... if engi gets time to build up his nest and considering this is MVM BS, i am pretty sure he just outlasts because MVM metal is like 2x more than a normal game