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End of Series Kenichi Tiering...
- Thread starter Yakushimi
- Start date
- Status
- 214
- 28
- Thread starter
- #4
Likewise. He would've had to have defeated Hayato in combat, so at the very least, he'd have to be on par with Hayato, if not superior, like you've mentioned. I noticed that Kenichi's profile is pretty much unchanged, with his best feat being that he is stronger than Berserker whose casual attacks destroyed a small building—logically, that would make anyone of the Three of Cards, the three strongest individuals within Ragnarök, at the very least Building level, with Odin possibly being Large Building due to being generally regarded as superior all around to the rest of the Eight Deadly Fists.
Furthermore, due to the fact that ranking doesn't seem to matter much, as Kisara, the Eighth Fist, defeated Freya, the Third Fist, in combat, so their ranks don't really matter all that much, only their power output and abilities in their martial arts.
Furthermore, due to the fact that ranking doesn't seem to matter much, as Kisara, the Eighth Fist, defeated Freya, the Third Fist, in combat, so their ranks don't really matter all that much, only their power output and abilities in their martial arts.
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Disagree. Hayato was anywhere from 100 to 500 years old (if him fighting during the sengoku period is correct iirc), he should have been far from his prime. We do not know whether Kenichi reached him in skill, AP, speed, other stats etc. And you said "we know he is a grandmaster", being a grandmaster doesn't even cut it to beat Hayato. Grandmasters are almost insignificant even compared to Advanced Grand Masters let alone someone like Hayato.
As for the rest, we don't even know if he did indeed fight Hayato, as i said, he was far too old already, we don't even know if he was even alive at that point.
As for the 3 cards being superior etc etc etc. That's very clearly not the case. All of them grew in strength. And the scaling isn't always in terms of AP, skill, adaptability, unconventionality etc.
As for the rest, we don't even know if he did indeed fight Hayato, as i said, he was far too old already, we don't even know if he was even alive at that point.
As for the 3 cards being superior etc etc etc. That's very clearly not the case. All of them grew in strength. And the scaling isn't always in terms of AP, skill, adaptability, unconventionality etc.
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Is there any indication he was actually weakened by age beyond being old? Silkwat showed nothing resembling degradation in his skills while being, at best, 90+ years old.
Plus, things like "Advanced Grand Master" aren't actual terms in the series, so him being classified as a Grandmaster isn't much proof against or for him pulling it off.
Plus, things like "Advanced Grand Master" aren't actual terms in the series, so him being classified as a Grandmaster isn't much proof against or for him pulling it off.
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Yes, that very same Silkwat stated "even i am a youngin to you", when talking to Mikumi (who should be about as old or younger than Hayato). So Hayato is old.
Besides as i said the fight is a complete mystery depending on whether it happened at all, let alone the details of the fight, whether it was a stat based win, a skill based win etc.
Besides as i said the fight is a complete mystery depending on whether it happened at all, let alone the details of the fight, whether it was a stat based win, a skill based win etc.
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Yes, and that very same Mikumi shows no lessening in her fighting abilities. Neither Hayato. Why would that happen now in the next decade or 2 when they are already half a century past the time when their muscles should be degrading?
Skill is not gonna make Kenichi hurt someone he's completely incomparable to, and if it was stat based, even more reason he should scale. No possible assumption where he wins, unless the Elder was weakened, consists of Kenichi not being comparable and, therefore, able to hurt him.
Skill is not gonna make Kenichi hurt someone he's completely incomparable to, and if it was stat based, even more reason he should scale. No possible assumption where he wins, unless the Elder was weakened, consists of Kenichi not being comparable and, therefore, able to hurt him.
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Mikumi was specifically capable of fighting due to her fighting technique which uses "0%strength and 100% skill". And besides Silkwat in his prime was stated that he would never lose to someone in his life time in skill nor strenght, yet when he fights as an old man he gets heavily overpowered by Akira's strongest move, he calls it unblockable, when someone like Seizou utterly trashes that same technique.
Yes it can, skill can do weird ass shit, in Kenichi verse. Mikumi's disciple was yawning at Ukita and Freya and stomping them both casually despite being a kid 1/3 their size.
A key for EoS kenichi was turned down once due to the mystery shrowding it all, considering we do not even know whether it happened in the first place, nor do we know Hayato is alive at all by then. I do not mind making that key if everyone agrees though.
Yes it can, skill can do weird ass shit, in Kenichi verse. Mikumi's disciple was yawning at Ukita and Freya and stomping them both casually despite being a kid 1/3 their size.
A key for EoS kenichi was turned down once due to the mystery shrowding it all, considering we do not even know whether it happened in the first place, nor do we know Hayato is alive at all by then. I do not mind making that key if everyone agrees though.
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Was he stated to be a grandmaster? If so, "8-B, possibly 7-C" is probably warranted. The ending may have been vague, but the implication that reached Hayato's level is very much there
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I don't remember that.Andytrenom said:
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Though for Grandmaster it would be 8-B.
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- Thread starter
- #14
On the History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi Wikipedia, Kenichi Shirahama is classed like so:
High Class Disciple Grandmaster (Epilogue), possibly higher.
This gives the impression that his ranking is potentially above that of a Grandmaster.
Furthermore, Lancelot, Advanced Grandmaster is actually a thing within the rankings of the Kenichiverse, being above Grandmaster and below Legendary Master, demonstrated by Saiga Fürinji, Mikumo Kushinada and Senzui.
If this is gonna turn into a thing about Tiering, I should probably put it under Content Revision Threads. x.x
High Class Disciple Grandmaster (Epilogue), possibly higher.
This gives the impression that his ranking is potentially above that of a Grandmaster.
Furthermore, Lancelot, Advanced Grandmaster is actually a thing within the rankings of the Kenichiverse, being above Grandmaster and below Legendary Master, demonstrated by Saiga Fürinji, Mikumo Kushinada and Senzui.
If this is gonna turn into a thing about Tiering, I should probably put it under Content Revision Threads. x.x
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The wiki is made by normal ppl like us, not by the author. So we need to find the proof in the manga of "Grandmaster possibly higher".
Also iirc Advanced Grand Master was never a thing in the manga. Hell sometimes they even reffered to Grandmasters as Masters.
However Hayato's tier is actually a thing, however it is called "Superhuman Class" and/or "Invincible Superman Class" in the manga.
Also iirc Advanced Grand Master was never a thing in the manga. Hell sometimes they even reffered to Grandmasters as Masters.
However Hayato's tier is actually a thing, however it is called "Superhuman Class" and/or "Invincible Superman Class" in the manga.
- 214
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- Thread starter
- #17
As far as I can research from my knowledge, the only concrete pieces about Kenichi we are shown is that he has done the following:
Married Miu and sired a daughter with her.
We know that, at the very least, Kenichi by the end of the series became a Master. Given that knowledge, he should be capable of feats comparable to other Grandmaster-ranked martial artists (i.e. Akisame, Apachai) as an End of Series baseline. On the wikipedia itself, under the Trivia, it states the following:
"Though he's not a master (until the end of the series), Kenichi has defeated more opponents than any other character in the series. At the end of the story, Kenichi is revealed to have become a master and married Miu, implying that he was finally able to defeat the Elder in combat."
Of course, we could just say that Hayato threw the fight, but given his extreme protectiveness over Miu, I don't think he'd take it lightly. That's why I suggest the "At least 8-B, likely 7-C" given the general implication of Kenichi defeating Hayato.
Married Miu and sired a daughter with her.
We know that, at the very least, Kenichi by the end of the series became a Master. Given that knowledge, he should be capable of feats comparable to other Grandmaster-ranked martial artists (i.e. Akisame, Apachai) as an End of Series baseline. On the wikipedia itself, under the Trivia, it states the following:
"Though he's not a master (until the end of the series), Kenichi has defeated more opponents than any other character in the series. At the end of the story, Kenichi is revealed to have become a master and married Miu, implying that he was finally able to defeat the Elder in combat."
Of course, we could just say that Hayato threw the fight, but given his extreme protectiveness over Miu, I don't think he'd take it lightly. That's why I suggest the "At least 8-B, likely 7-C" given the general implication of Kenichi defeating Hayato.
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He became a master, that we know, correct. However everyone from Fortuna to Ogata are called masters. However comparing the 2 is like comparing an ant to a dragon. While both are masters Fortuna is called trash for master tiers, whereas Ogata can easily destroy people on the level of Ryouzanpaku's masters. Simply saying master is not gonna cut it as he could be sitting anywhere in that list.
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- Thread starter
- #19
The problem with "Master" is that even if you are indeed a master of something, that doesn't mean that there isn't someone more skilled than you. Just because you're a black belt in, say, Karate or Judo, that doesn't mean that another black belt cannot defeat you. If two masters of a single martial art were to collide, then the result would be entirely dependent on who is more skilled and physically dominant. Fortuna isn't outright a Master, given that he only considers himself to be one, but later on, Hermit straight-up calls him garbage despite being a High Class Disciple. Ogata, on the other hand, is relatively a special case given that he has Seidou Gōitsu, which enables him to use both Ki types, therefore allowing him to fight people well above his normal pay grade.
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Hermit calls him "garbage by master class standards", so compared to any other master class he is garbage, but master class none the less.
As for Ogata, somehow him being one of the very few Seidou Goitsu users makes him less of a master? But that's besides the point, he's FAR beyond any other master class despite still being called a master in verse. Same could be said for someone like Mikumi who was so far above the Ryouzanpaku users as they themselves said "It doesn't even feel like we're fighting humans".
Point is "Kenichi is a master" is literally the vaguest statement possible, it can mean anything from somewhat above 9-A to Low 7-C.
As for Ogata, somehow him being one of the very few Seidou Goitsu users makes him less of a master? But that's besides the point, he's FAR beyond any other master class despite still being called a master in verse. Same could be said for someone like Mikumi who was so far above the Ryouzanpaku users as they themselves said "It doesn't even feel like we're fighting humans".
Point is "Kenichi is a master" is literally the vaguest statement possible, it can mean anything from somewhat above 9-A to Low 7-C.
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The 8-B, i would say not. I do not remember any proof that Kenichi became a grandmaster.
But i guess simply "Possibly 7-C" could work, since it was somewhat implied he had won.
But i guess simply "Possibly 7-C" could work, since it was somewhat implied he had won.
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I can take care of it.
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Wait. Who changed kenichi's pic? The new one looks lame af.
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The picture is honestly better from a profile making standpoint. It's full body, and focuses on his front
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How about this?Andytrenom said:
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Link it here if you do.
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And btw i finished updating the profile with the new key. You can check it.
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@Fire the rendering isn't very good on that one
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