Most people would only get it because Death has been removed from Order imo. Once the Tarnished removes DD, the people they fight wouldn't really leave after taking a lethal blow like that anymore. Although their superhuman stamina would still allow them to fight on, probably.
People can still die though, just their 'fated death' is removed so their rebirth is inevitable. Only their 'final death' never occurs. Our player character itself dies and is rebirthed through Grace repeatedly. The whole thing with 'removing death from order' is that it changed the normal cycle of death powering life no longer functions, death doesn't lead to rot which doesn't lead to new life, instead it now cycles through the 'eternal erdtree' instead.
I mean, do they? Like is it canon that our character dies outside of the "first" death? Even then, it sorta seems like they were just knocked out from the fall and lived.
Yes, Miyazaki has specifically said 'the immortality if the tarnished is through their connection to grace' which is contrasted against the immortality of the Demigods being because the Rune of Death was removed but its immortality through rebirth, not through simply never dying.
That's about the intro cutscene of them coming back from the dead. I'm not sure if there's an in-universe statement about the Tarnished dying and then coming back. Like they would canonically do all bosses in a single life afaik, or at least that's how we treat it.
I mean im 99.9999% the fact that we resurrect literally at Grace Networks implies that our immortality works exactly like the immortality of all the previous Dark Souls protagonists resurrecting at Bonfires. It seems like it would be insane to assume otherwise.
The issue I see is a gameplay vs lore function. In DSI-DSIII you dying and coming back is mentioned in-game as a thing that happens, same with Sekiro and the curse he has. While certain deaths would be non-canon due to special boss transformations, the act itself is acknowledged as taking place in the story itself.
Latenna literally dies in front of our characters face. All the Demigods die at the hands of the tarnished.
How does Latenna becoming a force ghost (sorta) and the Demigods dying have anything to do with the Tarnished coming back from the dead?
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Yeah they and the others of the Round Table got brought back. I just don't know if its a continuous thing.
I mean this quote doesn't say that grace constantly revives you. Just that it brought the player and others back to life and the Lands Between.
My issue is that the other games tie the revive mechanic with in-game events, dialogue and lore. In Elden Ring Grace's ability to revive people is only mentioned in the context of that one time event.
The others at the Round Table are not continously brought back. Cohryn dies for example and so does Diallos, Fia quite literally kills D IN the Round Table.
It is a reference to it, why would he mention immortality 'originating from the guidance of grace' something we only get once we are resurrected in the first place?
This just isn't an issue, theres like 7 mountains of contextual evidence you're blatantly ignoring.
agree, all I meant was surviving criticals not qualifying by itself. It is a supporting fear tho.
It's really tough to say imo, simply cause there are so many animations of characters getting impaled and surviving (particularly dragons getting stabbed through the eyes)
My interpretation of this is that the night is 'breaking down history' which allows him to indeed reach into other 'timelines' to summon bosses from the previous games yeh.
Wouldn't it just be summoning via time manipulation and maybe dimensional travel?
Probably not, but would probably be a good ability to have
Isn’t the Greater Will the creator of the universe itself? Or am I misremembering the lore? In any case, if we discounted the more “otherworldly” divinities out of discussion, then I would say Heolstor is the strongest person in the Elden Ring that we know about, as he seems to be narratively implied, in my opinion, to be a on a greater “level” than say Godfrey, Radagon, and the like, with his sheer presence and influence corrupting the very fabric of the world, something which the original game only really associates with the influence of Outer Gods.
I mean I imagine the strongest would have to be The Greater Will, but if we ignore Outer Gods then it would be between The Elden Beast and Heolstor (Also I'm not confident Heolstor would even be able to fight the Elden Beast as he's pretty weak to Holy and that's the main thing the Elden Beast does). That's also ignoring the player characters in which case I'm sure The Tarnished Warrior is the strongest by far.
Personally I think he’s stronger than EB, mainly ‘cause he’s the only boss we face who has canonically corrupted areas outside of his original universe, and even points in time, Elden beast dosent really have anything that reaches that magnitude of power.
The Greater Will is likely the most powerful entity in the series. I originally thought the night was pretty on par with the Greater Will, which it still likely is, but we don't really get much info on what the Greater Will is up to during Nightreign or if it even cares about the Night.
Fair enough yeah, I'd say:
if we take out the outer gods he is number two no matter how you slice it since by all accounts him having the nightrune and destroying the erdtree already puts him over the lords and the gods and in the same realm as prime elden beast (unshattered with the totality of the elden ring which should be on the same scale as the nightrune) but with his greater abilities and just better combat ability in general he would beat the thing 9/10 times.... but then comes in the tarnished with the metal chair.
I'd personally put the Night above the Frenzied Flame due to it having more of an affect on metaphysical reality rather than just destroying the physical world, but gernally yeah that's fair.
I can agree with this yeah.
I mean by all accounts tarnished is majorly above beings that while not 1:1 with a full elden ring would still not be that far behind, I mean the guy beat godfrey, radagon and the elden beast back to back with exactly 0 time to rest and recuporate for the elden beast and he also beat matyr who while damaged should exactly be all that much weaker than the elden beast considering what she is (plus we have nothing stating that she is weaker only that she can't commune with the greater will anymore), so in my honest opinion the tarnished by all accounts should be at least equal to fully intact elden beast in terms of sheer power (but obviously still stronger since his combat ability and skill are through the roof)
While impressive, none of those characters scale to the full repaired Elden Ring. Also, even if Metyr isn't stated directly weaker than the Elden Beast, it doesn't maker her any stronger. Metyr is kinda on the level of standard gods which downscale off the Elden Beast and the Elden Ring. But again, there isn't a point in the game where you fight anyone relative to the full Elden Ring. The Elden Beast is weakened by the shattering and lose pieces of itself, which we know contain its strength. Both Radagon and Marika have this Elden Ring subsumed, so when we find them in game they aren't as strong as say, prime Marika with the full Elden Ring within her body.
Actually, no, there's never a point where the Tarnished actually takes the Elden Ring in a way that grants them the entirety of its power. In most of the endings, the Tarnished mends the Elden Ring within the body of Marika, making her the vessel and maintaining her position as god. In Ranni's ending, this role is taken either by Ranni herself or by the Dark Moon, it's hard to tell. Finally in the Lord of Frenzied Flame ending, we just destroy the Elden Ring and the rest of the universe with it.
No not really, or at least not yet. The addition of Dark Souls bosses was stated by the directors to have very little true lore implications beyond the Nightlord's destabilization of time. They were added for gameplay purposes, and even if they were given a proper explanation their scaling is still just sh*t right now. Dark Souls is the second most outdated souls game on the wiki second only to Demon's Souls, which is far from a high bar at all.
The most Metyr has going for her is the implication that you need a +25/+10 weapon to harm her, since the Nox presumably cut her with the Fingerslayer Blade and Fingers are seemingly immortal for the most part.
Ranni discarded her flesh to remove her fate, but the Ring would probably still need to be stored within her. Which is why right after she leaves on a voyage to the stars, since she's removing Order from the Lands Between.
Also they don't really do much. Most bosses are either weaker than Morgott's calc or weaker than Radahn's calc. Their existence would be to solely argue for baseline 4-C.
Yeah it's kind of up in air. I'm more inclined to believe it is the Dark Moon honestly, since Ranni's dialogue implies that the Moon will be what governs her age.
The biggest thing right now would just be that they outscale the base scaling of all standard enemies and Morgott based on the Nameless King's Low 6-B calc (which to me is still really sus).
becoming the elden lord by defult grants the control/power of the elden ring thats why the gods need lords with the dragon god needing placi, micky needing radahn and marika doing a whole ass round about with her fusing with a part of her self she threw away (radagon). a god needs a lord in order to use the elden ring or its equivalance so by the tarnished becoming the elden lord he get access to a mostly repaired elden ring and all the power that comes along with it, kinda how radahn gets a massive power boost from tricky micky and at that point its a bit insane to say that tarnished wouldn't at least be on the same playing field as a fully mended elden beast.
