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Elden Ring General Discussion

XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Dammit. You think the Giant Skeletons can get any useful calcs like the Gargantuan Leviathan in Subnautica has? Could be useful since they could physically carry around the Giant's Forge so there's that too on top of their already insane size.
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The dead Giants in the base game are like 600 some odd meters tall. The Nightreign Giants seem to be a bit bigger, but aren't going anywhere beyond 800-1500 meters. The problem as well is that there isn't really any scaling chain for any of the large characters. The only one we can scale above is Granssax because of Fortissax's statement.
 
IAmNotBread said:
Wonder if someone could upscale the attacks of a regular ancient dragon to gransax’ size to calculate the size of stuff like his fire breath and lightning stakes
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Only thing I can think to do that for is the feat of them catching lightning.
 
Chritin said:
The dead Giants in the base game are like 600 some odd meters tall. The Nightreign Giants seem to be a bit bigger, but aren't going anywhere beyond 800-1500 meters. The problem as well is that there isn't really any scaling chain for any of the large characters. The only one we can scale above is Granssax because of Fortissax's statement.
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Not even the Godfrey and Marika since they literally killed these things?
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Not even the Godfrey and Marika since they literally killed these things?
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Did they? I don't know if we ever got confirmation on what these giants were, since they aren't exclusive to the Mountaintops. I've seen more convincing info they are Old Gods, and more connected to ancient civilizations like Rauh.
 
Chritin said:
Did they? I don't know if we ever got confirmation on what these giants were, since they aren't exclusive to the Mountaintops. I've seen more convincing info they are Old Gods, and more connected to ancient civilizations like Rauh.
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I always got the impression they were part of the Fire Giants since there aren't that many skeletons around his size, so he was just kind of the runt. If that's not the case then I want to know what the actual **** killed these things. Either way you can probably scale the Fire Giant to them since he's powered by a literal god.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
I always got the impression they were part of the Fire Giants since there aren't that many skeletons around his size, so he was just kind of the runt. If that's not the case then I want to know what the actual **** killed these things. Either way you can probably scale the Fire Giant to them since he's powered by a literal god.
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I talked about it before, but the Fire Giant likely downscales off of the other gods by only having a piece of the crippled and or dead fell god in his body. I really don't thinkw e have enough info on these guys to use them for any kind of a effective scaling, and it would be useless anyways due to their size not necessarily being that impressive. For example, the Strider from AC6 is bigger than anything found in Elden Ring by a few thousand meters, and is only Low 7-B+
 
On another note, can we talk about how to handle the Dragonkin Soldier of Nokstella being able to just cure itself of all status effects whenever it transforms into its second phase? Also speaking of which, I noticed something odd about them. Nightreign refers to the Nokstella version as a Nox Dragonkin Soldier while the ones that don't transform are just labeled as Dragonkin Soldiers. Is that implying Dragonkin Soldiers weren't made by just the Nox but that the Nox did it the best since theirs have more draconic abilities?
 
Sometimes, while the night is coming in on an expedition, I can see the night sky. Most of the time it's just blinking stars, but on occasion, I can see a faint nebula. So that makes me wonder if behind the weird night cloud thing that closes in on the spirit shelter. Is the sky the same as base Elden Rings? Probably not much that could be done with this information, but it's an interesting thought. Have zero idea what's going on with Heolstor skybox during his expeditions though, that's just weird all around.
 
Chritin said:
Good news everyone.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Consort Radahn's Meteor Rain

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
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cr1tikal-penguinz0.gif
 
beat the new Gnoster. And Man. That fight was just fun. It had some cool and unique mechanics that made it an absolute blast to fight against. Not to mention that third phase OST was so good. I had good teammates and a good build (Blasphemous blade), but even then, it probably wasn't the hardest thing in the world. But I'm okay with that. It was just pure joy throughout the whole fight, and I'm really happy either way.
this-goes-out-to-all-my-fellow-smoker-stans-stay-strong-v0-6nr9jwwqdr0c1.png
 
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Latin_Rhythms said:
beat the new Gnoster. And Man. That fight was just fun. It had some cool and unique mechanics that made it an absolute blast to fight against. Not to mention that third phase OST was so good. I had good teammates and a good build (Blasphemous blade), but even then, it probably wasn't the hardest thing in the world. But I'm okay with that. It was just pure joy throughout the whole fight, and I'm really happy either way.
this-goes-out-to-all-my-fellow-smoker-stans-stay-strong-v0-6nr9jwwqdr0c1.png
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Honestly, I wish we got some new lore and wtf Animus is. Obviously, he is a disembodied spirit that acts as the connection between Faurtis and Gnoster, but it's not like Animus itself is the Nightlord. Honestly I feel like it would've made more sense is Gnoster was the Ascendant Light, while Animus and Faurtis were two beings possessed by some greater nightlord spirit.
 
Chritin said:
Honestly, I wish we got some new lore and wtf Animus is. Obviously, he is a disembodied spirit that acts as the connection between Faurtis and Gnoster, but it's not like Animus itself is the Nightlord. Honestly I feel like it would've made more sense is Gnoster was the Ascendant Light, while Animus and Faurtis were two beings possessed by some greater nightlord spirit.
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Fair enough, same with Adel tbh

Fulghor is easy enough to decipher, he resists the nights corruption and is rewarded with getting his arm back, likely by the gods he serves

I don’t have the slightest idea what happens with Adel .-.
 
IAmNotBread said:
Fair enough, same with Adel tbh

Fulghor is easy enough to decipher, he resists the nights corruption and is rewarded with getting his arm back, likely by the gods he serves

I don’t have the slightest idea what happens with Adel .-.
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I think Adel ist turns his lightning up to 11
 
Damn looks great! Though, would his teleportation fall under Darkness Manipulation or nah?
 
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IAmNotBread said:
Damn looks great! Though, would his teleportation fall under Darkness Manipulation or nah?
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It would be teleportation. I just forgot about the power. Feel free to edit anything into the drsft
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Made the Sandbox for Heolstor. I need to get scans of stuff but the skeleton should still work
vsbattles.fandom.com

Qawsedf234/SandboxHeolstor

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
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Overall seems pretty good. I have a few things I'd like to mention though.

  • He should also get explosion manip for his aoe attacks in phase 2 and his elemental summoning attacks in phase three.
  • Heolstor possess resistances only to Sleep and Scarlet rot. The rest are immunitues. As a quick side note though, I'm looking into how we shoudl approach immunities to things like maddness in lore, since seemingly thing like Frenzied Flame Deathblight has little to no limits on what it can consume in Elden Ring lore, and also possess significantly more abilities than just doing damage. If i ever get the Frenzied Flame page done I'll circle back to this though. There are also other things like the fact that frostbite also causes stat reductions, although even though he's immune, it would only be a resistance to stat reduction since he can still be affected by things like soul stiffler.
  • Not sure if the Nightlord's rune is specifically what grants him his control over the night
  • I was watching a video the other day, and apparently there may be dialogue somewhere that explicitly calls the Nightlord a god. I'll see if I can find it but I'll link the video.
  • It might help to mention that Heolstor's destruction of the Erdtree possibly means that he destroyed the Elden Ring itself. This is due to the fact that the Night destroyed the Erdree, which symbolizes the presence of the Elden Ring. However, I can understand pushback against this due to the Elden Ring's existence long before that of the Erdtree. It is interesting though that the only other time we see something like this happen is in the Frenzied Flame ending, so it feels right to point it out.
 
Chritin said:
  • Not sure if the Nightlord's rune is specifically what grants him his control over the night
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I would think it is. Once the rune is taken and Heolstor is dead, the night vanishes. It's why Wylder opts to become Heolstor, as it allows his sister to keep on living.
Chritin said:
I can understand pushback against this due to the Elden Ring's existence long before that of the Erdtree.
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That's my main issue. The Ring predates the Erdtree by thousands of years. The Erdtree is a symbol of Marika's power rather than the Ring in of itself in my mind.
Chritin said:
As a quick side note though, I'm looking into how we shoudl approach immunities to things like maddness in lore
Click to expand...
The easiest method would be to make a blog with each of the different elements. So they can all be explained at once. Plus, it'll be easier to just link something like "Madness Magic" rather than every individual spell.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
The easiest method would be to make a blog with each of the different elements. So they can all be explained at once. Plus, it'll be easier to just link something like "Madness Magic" rather than every individual spell.
Click to expand...
True, although I think it would just be do it better for status effects and elements. Like have it say "Chaos Magic", link to the page on what chaos magic does, then have bullet points bellow that for specific abilities tied to spells that characters gets.
 
Chritin said:
  • It might help to mention that Heolstor's destruction of the Erdtree possibly means that he destroyed the Elden Ring itself. This is due to the fact that the Night destroyed the Erdree, which symbolizes the presence of the Elden Ring. However, I can understand pushback against this due to the Elden Ring's existence long before that of the Erdtree. It is interesting though that the only other time we see something like this happen is in the Frenzied Flame ending, so it feels right to point it out.
Click to expand...
My problem with this is what is said in the opening cinematic for the game.
The Shattering, as it was known, destroyed order itself. Drawing forth, in time, an Abomination. Thus fell upon us the Night. -Nightreign opening cinematic
Click to expand...
So in this timeline, the shattering didn't end with no victor, but instead with something much more catastrophic. I think order in this case can be used as a synonym for the Elden Ring, and so if order was destroyed in this timeline, it most likely means the Elden Ring was, and so too with it went the Erdtree. This is also why I'd remove from the sandbox page that he conquered the lands between and defeated all the demigods. Because the Night and Heolstor, simply came after the shattering and after they were all gone. As for why they return as adversaries, the Night is shown being able to bring back people who died, so it's probably just the Nightlord bringing back the spirits of the already dead demigods under its influence so that they can fight for them.

However, none of this really addressed the big blue Elden Ring in the room, as seen in lots of the promotional material and the NIGHTREIGN achievement. Although neither does the game, so I've got nothin. My best headcannon is that after the Golden Elden Ring got completely wiped, the Night took over the order of the world, and its shape was the exact same as the Elden Ring, and so the cutting gifted tribe created the primodal great rune to try and take advantage of that sameness but failed so Heolstor sealed the rune within himself so that none may use it to end the night and restore the world to how it once was. Again, this is just a headcannon, though, so we wait till the DLC???
 
Latin_Rhythms said:
My problem with this is what is said in the opening cinematic for the game.

So in this timeline, the shattering didn't end with no victor, but instead with something much more catastrophic. I think order in this case can be used as a synonym for the Elden Ring, and so if order was destroyed in this timeline, it most likely means the Elden Ring was, and so too with it went the Erdtree. This is also why I'd remove from the sandbox page that he conquered the lands between and defeated all the demigods. Because the Night and Heolstor, simply came after the shattering and after they were all gone. As for why they return as adversaries, the Night is shown being able to bring back people who died, so it's probably just the Nightlord bringing back the spirits of the already dead demigods under its influence so that they can fight for them.

However, none of this really addressed the big blue Elden Ring in the room, as seen in lots of the promotional material and the NIGHTREIGN achievement. Although neither does the game, so I've got nothin. My best headcannon is that after the Golden Elden Ring got completely wiped, the Night took over the order of the world, and its shape was the exact same as the Elden Ring, and so the cutting gifted tribe created the primodal great rune to try and take advantage of that sameness but failed so Heolstor sealed the rune within himself so that none may use it to end the night and restore the world to how it once was. Again, this is just a headcannon, though, so we wait till the DLC???
Click to expand...
I think this might be a situation where it would be good to look at the raw text, sinc ethe bas game also describes the order as being broken. While being broken and destroyed are two different things, there might be some context in the raws that show its describing the same event and it wasn't the shattering which ultimately destroyed the Elden Ring.

Also, I don't think all of the demigods are dead. The Fell Omen Fetish explicitly states that Morgott was consumed by the Night and is now basically brainwashed into fighting for the Night.

A fetish bathed in golden magic.

Shackles were used to bind the accursed people called the Omen, and these ones were made to keep a particular Omen under strictest confinement.

But the magic has long faded, leaving only a dark stain in its wake.

The protector of gold yet stands guard over the realm, even after being swallowed by Night.
Click to expand...

Ngl, I'm holding out on Smoughtown's upcoming lore video cause that guy is the penultimate Elden Ring lore genius imo.
 
Chritin said:
I think this might be a situation where it would be good to look at the raw text, sinc ethe bas game also describes the order as being broken. While being broken and destroyed are two different things, there might be some context in the raws that show its describing the same event and it wasn't the shattering which ultimately destroyed the Elden Ring.
Click to expand...
I get where you're coming from, but knowing that the split of the timeline happens at the point of the shattering. And the split, specifically being that the war ending differently from no victor to complete catastrophe with the destruction of the Elden Ring (How? good question.), makes a lot of sense to me. Also, I checked the raws, and it doesn't help. It said the world (世界) was hopelessly broken. Oh great, real helpful, super specific, exactly what I wanted/s. But if we have to extrapolate something from this, I guess it could be a point towards the difference between the main game and here being that in the base game it was broken, but there was hope to fix it. Here, nah that things donezo. So ya know broken vs destroyed. Or alternately, it's so broken on the hinges that it might as well be considered destroyed, but not entirely.

Also, I don't think all of the demigods are dead. The Fell Omen Fetish explicitly states that Morgott was consumed by the Night and is now basically brainwashed into fighting for the Night.
Click to expand...
I guess that's true, they don't necessarily have to be all dead for the night to have taken them. But other than Godrick and him, none of the others show up, and how that relates to lore vs development, I'm not sure.
 
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Latin_Rhythms said:
This is also why I'd remove from the sandbox page that he conquered the lands between and defeated all the demigods. Because the Night and Heolstor, simply came after the shattering and after they were all gone.
Click to expand...
That doesn't make sense to me, because the Shattering didn't end with the Demigods dying, but with them failing to claim the title of Elden Lord. They'd all be alive when Heolstor came for the same reason they're all alive when the Tarnished comes. They were unable to kill each other.
Latin_Rhythms said:
So in this timeline, the shattering didn't end with no victor, but instead with something much more catastrophic.
Click to expand...
I disagree here, but the OG Shattering actually had the same result. To quote the narration:
The mad taint of their newfound strength triggered the Shattering.

A war from which no lord arose.

A war leading to abandonment by the Greater Will.
Click to expand...
The GW already abandoned TLB because of the Shattering
Chritin said:
I think it would just be do it better for status effects and elements.
Click to expand...
You can do it for status effects, but it being a hub page just makes profiles easier to do. Since you can just replace most of the powers with the hub link, and detail what they have access to. It's what the Warhammer profiles do as an example, which makes doing bigger profiles easier.

So Radahn would just have something like "Gravity Magic - All Spells" or something like that. With his unique powers being noted in the profile, like the corkscrew attack or flight.
Latin_Rhythms said:
so we wait till the DLC???
Click to expand...
We can change scaling afterwards if it affected, but I don't see why we should wait.
 
That doesn't make sense to me, because the Shattering didn't end with the Demigods dying, but with them failing to claim the title of Elden Lord. They'd all be alive when Heolstor came for the same reason they're all alive when the Tarnished comes. They were unable to kill each other.
Click to expand...
That's a very good point. If they were still alive after the war, then they would be around when Heolstor and the Night showed up. But we don't know who was still alive after Night Reigns' version of events, and if they faced the Night/Nightlord. The only two demigods who show up and are under the influence of night are Godrick and Morgott. So maybe it was just those two who survived till the end.
I disagree here, but the OG Shattering actually had the same result. To quote the narration:

The mad taint of their newfound strength triggered the Shattering.

A war from which no lord arose.

A war leading to abandonment by the Greater Will.
Click to expand...
The GW already abandoned TLB because of the Shattering
Click to expand...
This is what I mean by the fact that the shattering had a different result. In the base game's narration, it's said no lord arose, and the Greater will abandon the land (Although the DLC does seem to say this actually happened way before shattering). But in the end, the lands between and the erdtree remained. Order/the Elden Ring was still shattered, but there was hope that it could one day be fixed and a new lord would rise. Things are much bleaker in Nightregin,
The Lands between were visited by a great war. The Shattering, as it was known, destroyed order itself. Drawing forth, in time, an Abomination. Thus fell upon us the Night. -Nightreign opening cinematic
Click to expand...
So in this timeline, the shattering, the war, specifically destroyed order (presumably the Elden Ring in this case), and probably the Erdtree too. How? I don't know, but that's what happened here. And with the order destroyed, it allowed over time an "Abomination", the "Night" to fall on the lands. That's what I mean by different results. In the base game, the shattering ended in no victor, but at least the Elden Ring was still around to be fixed; in Nightreign, the Elden Ring/Order somehow broke entirely during the war, and eventually, through lack of order and time, an abomination was drawn forth. The Night.
Latin_Rhythms said:
so we wait till the DLC???
Click to expand...
We can change scaling afterwards if it affected, but I don't see why we should wait.
Click to expand...
That's true, I was just talking more about like a direct story thing about what happened and what the big blue Elden Ring thing is exactly, since we currently have no idea.
 
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Latin_Rhythms said:
The only two demigods who show up and are under the influence of night are Godrick and Morgott. So maybe it was just those two who survived till the end.
Click to expand...
I don't see that to be honest. Rykard, Ranni and Mohg are easy examples of Demigods that can't really be dislodged from their position, and they would all stand in opposition to Heolstor.

The biggest issue with your idea is that WoG just contradicts it
Junya Ishizaki: We'd like fans to think of Nightreign as an Elden Ring spin-off, first and foremost. The story is completely separate and parallel to the world of Elden Ring’s. If you had to tie it in some way, we had the events of the shattering in the original game. After the events of the shattering, this is a completely separate branch of the Elden Ring story.
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The story only becomes different after the Shattering was over, or in other words once Malenia battled Radahn. The Shattering itself was identical between both games.
Latin_Rhythms said:
Order/the Elden Ring was still shattered, but there was hope that it could one day be fixed and a new lord would rise. Things are much bleaker in Nightregin,
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That's because in the NR timeline, the Shattering directly led into the awakening of Heolstor. It's why the ending of the game has it that they turn away the Night/Old God while the Erdtree is still standing, who after being touched by grace, goes back into the sea. Without that being going to TLB Heolstor is unable to awaken and the timeline continues until Elden Ring proper.
Latin_Rhythms said:
So in this timeline, the shattering, the war, specifically destroyed order (presumably the Elden Ring in this case), and probably the Erdtree too. How? I don't know, but that's what happened here.
Click to expand...
I think you're viewing "Shattering of Order" as "Complete destruction of the Erdtree and Elden Ring" rather than just "The Golden Order collapsed into an anarchist state".

To further explain, in order to shatter the Elden Ring you have to actually get to Radagon and Marika. Which requires breaching Radagon's Wall of Thorns, which was so powerful that the following people were unable to breach it under their own power:
  • Morgott
  • Vyke
  • Bernhal
  • The Tarnished
  • Melina
The only solution proposed that stands any chance requires the Rune of Death to be unsealed (which we know from NR doesn't happen) and for the Forge of Giants to be activated with someone of Melina's power. Without doing both do one can breach Radagon's seal, which prevents anyone from getting to the ER in the first place. Heolstor would be the obvious person to have the power/ability to actually breach the Thorns.
Latin_Rhythms said:
in Nightreign, the Elden Ring/Order somehow broke entirely during the war, and eventually, through lack of order and time, an abomination was drawn forth. The Night.
Click to expand...
In Nightreign a bunch of things happened at once to allow Heolstor to come into being:
  • The Titan seen at the end of the game needed to vist the Lands Between for some reason
  • The Fallen Carian Knight was required to forsake the world in order for the Night to find a host
  • The child of the Recluse which was built from the bones of an Outer God
  • The shadows that the child are that combined with the Fallen Carian Knight
Just one of those things not being present would prevent Heolstor from being created. Heolstor was created due to the environment of the Shattering, and his creation was prevented in the game because the MCs reversed time to prevent it from happening in the first place.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Just one of those things not being present would prevent Heolstor from being created. Heolstor was created due to the environment of the Shattering, and his creation was prevented in the game because the MCs reversed time to prevent it from happening in the first place.
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Well, when you put it like that, I can't really argue, and honestly, I'm starting to agree. I would just change the phrasing in the sandbox to be after the shattering, then, since everything about the night has been stated to be after the shattering, not during. I'd also probably change the whole thing about him defeating the demigods in direct combat, as they could have just as easily fallen to the night's influence or tide without Heolstor lifting a finger. I mean, he definitely could beat them, but we have no idea how it actually went down. So I probably wouldn't put that there that's just me though
 
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Chritin said:
Presumably just lightning speed, since he seemingly transforms his entire body into it (it also has the same visual as Placidusax's lightning cloud attack which lends credence to that also being a lightning timing feat, but I'll put that in the pile)

Ngl, the more impressive thing for Everdark Adel imo is the fact that he literally spins his body to create a huge storm covering the entire area. I really, REALLY need a map file of that thing because holy that might actually be a pretty cool lifting strength feat.
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I know this was a long time ago but do you still need the map file? I've got the game on PC
 
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