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Eclipsa vs Jiren (again)

GiverOfThePeace said:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shield
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/projectile

Idk where you're getting your info from but that's objectively false. A shield to a bullet is stupidly different from a bullet to a bullet.

It's not a projectile as explained. The very basis of what a shield is supposed to do goes against your claims.
Click to expand...
You're literally saying Jiren can't glare at something because it's called something else.

No, your entire argument is based around the fact that a Shield is a completely different form of matter from a Bullet.

If Jiren can glare a wall open, he can glare a shield open. If Jiren can glare energy beams apart, he can glare energy shields apart. They're made of the same damn things!

And if Eclipsa's Balls are shown to interact with physical matter, it will react to Jiren's Glare as it too reacts with physical matter.

In the realm of Matter and Energy, it literally does not matter what you're called.
 
That's not the argument I made whatsoever, both definitions clearly show that they're not remotely the same thing.

Yes, cause it is. A bullet is and a magical shield are two completely different forms of matter.

Yes because a wwall is magical, nice to kow.

There's a lot of things in fiction that react to physical matter. The balls are magical.

Yes, it actually does lol.
 
"That's not the argument I made whatsoever, both definitions clearly show that they're not remotely the same thing."

Both are things made of matter. Therefore, anything that's also matter or can interact with matter will react with them the same.

"Yes, cause it is. A bullet is and a magical shield are two completely different forms of matter."

If the Magic Shield has shown to react with matter, it can and will react to Jiren's attacks (Which is physical) and if it's weaker than said attack, will break.

"Yes because a wwall is magical, nice to kow."

the hell is even this argument.

"There's a lot of things in fiction that react to physical matter. The balls are magical."

And if they react to physical matter, then they react to physical matter. Whether it's magical or not literally means nothing.

"Yes, it actually does lol."

This statement means that if I call two lumps of Titanium that's exactly the same different things then they'd adopt different properties.

If I call a lump of Titanium a bullet and a lump of matter a shield, that'd make them fundamentally different? That's what you're arguing right now.
 
"Both are things made of matter. Therefore, anything that's also matter or can interact with matter will react with them the same. "

>False equivalence, magical properties of matter do not equate to regular matter just because "they're both matter".

"If the Magic Shield has shown to react with matter, it can and will react to Jiren's attacks (Which is physical) and if it's weaker than said attack, will break. " >React? You mean that it blocks attacks? This is the fallacy of extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Show objective proof that just because it blocks physical attacks that suddenly means Jiren can glare it.

"the hell is even this argument." >It comes from your backwards claim that just because jiren can glare a wall he can glare a magical shield. No sir, your argument is nonsensical and fallacious.

"This statement means that if I call two lumps of Titanium that's exactly the same different things then they'd adopt different properties." >How is a magical property of a shield and a wall remotely the "Exact same thing" your analogy is bad. False analogy fallacy, moving on.

"If I call a lump of Titanium a bullet and a lump of matter a shield, that'd make them fundamentally different? That's what you're arguing right now."

>Yes because of the properties that make up them they are different. Especially since one is a magical property and one is of physical property. You are literally trying equate supernatural properties to natural ones lol.
 
">False equivalence, magical properties of matter do not equate to regular matter just because "they're both matter"."

Again, if they both interact as if both was normal matter, it does not matter what composition the Magical thing is. If the magic in question has been shown to interact and get overwhelmed by normal physical things, then it will indeed get overwhelmed.

A Magic Wall getting hit by a nuke, in most instances, will completely shatter from said Nuke.

"React? You mean that it blocks attacks? This is the fallacy of extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Show objective proof that just because it blocks physical attacks that suddenly means Jiren can glare it."

... What? It's a physical thing, the magical thing is very physical and it is definitely able to react to kinetic energy. Jiren, who's Glare is physical and produces kinetic energy, is able to interact and possibly destroy it via being stronger than its shown limits.

You on the other hand have to prove that just because it's magical means it has the durability to survive Jiren's attacks.

And no, stop throwing around big words. It is not at all a Fallacy. If it displays a property, it can be assumed said property transfers throughout; the fact that it's physical. What's a fallacy is assuming it can survive an attack significantly higher than what it's shown to survive.

"It comes from your backwards claim that just because jiren can glare a wall he can glare a magical shield. No sir, your argument is nonsensical and fallacious."

You're the one being fallacious here; just because it's magical does not make it special in any way or form. If it displays no special properties and acts just like any other physical thing, Jiren who's well above Eclipsa's league should be able to both interact and break it.

"How is a magical property of a shield and a wall remotely the "Exact same thing" your analogy is bad. False analogy fallacy, moving on."

For god's sake you're idiotic. You have yet to prove that this "Magical Shield" is special in its properties and until you do, it's just a manifested glorified wall. Because that's exactly what a shield is supposed to do; block crap. And if it doesn't display the capabilities to block attacks on such a high level than what it's shown, it will break.

What you're trying to imply with Eclipsa's magical shield is a No Limits Fallacy. Just because it's magical does NOT mean it can suddenly block Jiren's attacks "Just because it's magic".

"Yes because of the properties that make up them they are different. Especially since one is a magical property and one is of physical property. You are literally trying equate supernatural properties to natural ones lol."

You have not proved this. At all.
 
"Again, if they both interact as if both was normal matter, it does not matter what composition the Magical thing is. If the magic in question has been shown to interact and get overwhelmed by normal physical things, then it will indeed get overwhelmed. " >So not only do you ignore the logical fallacy you comitted but repeated the same argument again? Already showing me poor argumentation.

"A Magic Wall getting hit by a nuke, in most instances, will completely shatter from said Nuke." >This is never shown in SVTFOE's instances + I require scans.

"... What? It's a physical thing, the magical thing is very physical and it is definitely able to react to kinetic energy. Jiren, who's Glare is physical and produces kinetic energy, is able to interact and possibly destroy it via being stronger than its shown limits. "

>How is it physical? It blocks attacks from other magical beings, not from physical objects. This does not suddenly change the fact that you're tryig to combine two completely different properties together.

"You on the other hand have to prove that just because it's magical means it has the durability to survive Jiren's attacks." >Where did I say the shield can survive attacks? I said Jiren's glare isn't going to null the shield because he's only shown to do this against projectiles. You're already misclaiming my points.

"And no, stop throwing around big words. It is not at all a Fallacy. If it displays a property, it can be assumed said property transfers throughout; the fact that it's physical. What's a fallacy is assuming it can survive an attack significantly higher than what it's shown to survive." >How is the fallacy of extraordinary claims remotely big words? It is a fallacy, your denial doesn't suddenly debunk the truth. I literally never claimed it can survive any attacks higher then it, I said Jiren can't nullify the shield cause "lolglare".

"You're the one being fallacious here; just because it's magical does not make it special in any way or form. If it displays no special properties and acts just like any other physical thing, Jiren who's well above Eclipsa's league should be able to both interact and break it." >Nice "no u". It seems we need to understand what magic is https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/magic The very concept of what magic is supposed to be would make it special. Can you show me instances where it acts like other physical things now, cause earlier you said you don't even know if this is the case now you're arguing it's outright the case. You're already showing contradicative argumentation.

"For god's sake you're idiotic. You have yet to prove that this "Magical Shield" is special in its properties and until you do, it's just a manifested glorified wall. Because that's exactly what a shield is supposed to do; block crap. And if it doesn't display the capabilities to block attacks on such a high level than what it's shown, it will break. " >Nice to know I hit a nerve. By the very idea that it uses magic it's special lol, do you not know what magic is?

"What you're trying to imply with Eclipsa's magical shield is a No Limits Fallacy. Just because it's magical does NOT mean it can suddenly block Jiren's attacks "Just because it's magic". " >That's not what a NLF is whatsoever, lots of people seem to not get that fallacy. I didn't say that because it's magical that it can block Jiren's attacks I'm saying Jiren can't glare it and thus nullify it because he's only shown to do that to projectiles.

"You have not proved this. At all. " >Why would I need to prove common sense? The burden of proof also falls on you. Good sir, you've made the claim that magical and physical properties are somehow the same thing, objectively prove it. You've just repeated your same arguments ad naeseum.
 
Mickey1940 said:
sorry that this is necro

but Jiren AP stomps cause he's WAAAAY above baseline while Eclipsa is just above baseline. He can just glare through projectiles and shields and whatnot

plus he starts with glare, which is instant gg
Click to expand...
.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
Spirit Bomb isn't a shield, a shield isn't a projectile.
Click to expand...
dude

If you were holding a cardboard shield and i had an AK47, I would easily be able to tear the shield apart

Now replace the AK47 with Jiren and the cardboard with Eclipsa's shields

It's the same thing

That's just how shields work.
 
It's not the same thing whatsoever and is a false analogy on the highest scale. If you're saying Jiren's power breaks through it, sure I have no contension against that I had a completely different argument for why Eclipsa wins irregardless, but if you're going to argue his glare nullifies her shield just cause it nullifies projectiels I'm arguing against that.
 
I might be misunderstanding, and feel free to explain to me if I am, but if you are implying that Jiren's glare doesn't work because Eclipsa has a shield as opposed to a projectile, that's absolutely ludicrous.
 
It doesn't power null a shield because it can power null a projectile. That's how the power null rules work from what I've seen in a page describing it. And no, it's not really ludicirous, glaring away an offensive projectile is not equivalent to glaring away a defensive shield.
 
"It doesn't power null a shield because it can power null a projectile."

But Jiren's Glare isn't Power Null. It's literally an attack. When it nullifies other projectiles and attacks, it's because it's pitting a tidal wave against a Super Soaker. Jiren's attack is plain better, which is why it seems to nullify projectiles. Hell, Jiren doesn't even have Power Null.

"That's how the power null rules work from what I've seen in a page describing it."

Except we're not arguing power null. We're arguing that his glare is far too powerful of an attack for Eclipsa's shield.

"And no, it's not really ludicirous, glaring away an offensive projectile is not equivalent to glaring away a defensive shield."

Jiren's Glare is an attack. If it only nullifies projectiles, it would've never hurt Goku the way it did.
 
snip
"But Jiren's Glare isn't Power Null. It's literally an attack. When it nullifies other projectiles and attacks, it's because it's pitting a tidal wave against a Super Soaker. Jiren's attack is plain better, which is why it seems to nullify projectiles. Hell, Jiren doesn't even have Power Null." >You can have attacks that nullify at the same time, Beerus and Goku have power null for that exact reason. So yes, Jiren's Glare is power ull.

"Except we're not arguing power null. We're arguing that his glare is far too powerful of an attack for Eclipsa's shield."

>The way you've described it is power null.


"Jiren's Glare is an attack. If it only nullifies projectiles, it would've never hurt Goku the way it did." >https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Beerus

"Limited Power Nullification (Can negate energy attacks)"
 
Can't believe I missed this.

"You can have attacks that nullify at the same time, Beerus and Goku have power null for that exact reason. So yes, Jiren's Glare is power ull."

Except you're blatantly ignoring my point. I never argued Jiren would somehow null Eclipsa's Shield, just that you completely ignored my point that Eclipsa NEVER displayed the power able to block a Glare from Jiren. It's a matter of AP- NOT Null or whatever.

"The way you've described it is power null."

Yes, and I never said it wasn't. Problem is, it's also AP which you seem to be happy to ignore for the sake of Eclipsa.

""Limited Power Nullification (Can negate energy attacks)""

Beerus literally held open his hand and Goku's Ki Attacks dead stopped upon contact with it. It's not using Ki to cancel out another Ki Attack, so you're flat out WRONG on that end.
 
Akreious said:
Can't believe I missed this.

"You can have attacks that nullify at the same time, Beerus and Goku have power null for that exact reason. So yes, Jiren's Glare is power ull."

Except you're blatantly ignoring my point. I never argued Jiren would somehow null Eclipsa's Shield, just that you completely ignored my point that Eclipsa NEVER displayed the power able to block a Glare from Jiren. It's a matter of AP- NOT Null or whatever.

"The way you've described it is power null."

Yes, and I never said it wasn't. Problem is, it's also AP which you seem to be happy to ignore for the sake of Eclipsa.

""Limited Power Nullification (Can negate energy attacks)""

Beerus literally held open his hand and Goku's Ki Attacks dead stopped upon contact with it. It's not using Ki to cancel out another Ki Attack, so you're flat out WRONG on that end.
Click to expand...
I don't want to be mean sir but Jiren would get stomped The Star VS pages weren't updated since season 3
 
CrackNet said:
Akreious said:
Can't believe I missed this.

"You can have attacks that nullify at the same time, Beerus and Goku have power null for that exact reason. So yes, Jiren's Glare is power ull."

Except you're blatantly ignoring my point. I never argued Jiren would somehow null Eclipsa's Shield, just that you completely ignored my point that Eclipsa NEVER displayed the power able to block a Glare from Jiren. It's a matter of AP- NOT Null or whatever.

"The way you've described it is power null."

Yes, and I never said it wasn't. Problem is, it's also AP which you seem to be happy to ignore for the sake of Eclipsa.

""Limited Power Nullification (Can negate energy attacks)""

Beerus literally held open his hand and Goku's Ki Attacks dead stopped upon contact with it. It's not using Ki to cancel out another Ki Attack, so you're flat out WRONG on that end.
Click to expand...
I don't want to be mean sir but Jiren would get stomped
The Star VS pages weren't updated since season 3
Click to expand...
wait stomps how?
 
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