DxD 2-A Cosmology Upgrade CRT

[BlackeJan]

Yeah, and the dimensional gap has that? All staff who have evaluated this thread says it is fine and that it qualifies, so like..... what are we getting our panties in a twist for.

Idk how they feel on the 2A rating but my issues lies with the rating games “star” even being real when even the OP had admitted of what Grayfia said and this looks just like how a few series had a “star” in a dimension but it was rejected solely cause we didn’t even know how big the dimension was or if the stars were even real

As I said before, yall took the words of a statement and exaggerated it for no reason

 

[BlackeJan]

Damn, 9 pages, at this point i think just close this thread, take a break and make a new one with compiled evidences and arguments from both sides

True. We will just close this and wait for Phoneks to make the thread

 

[BlackeJan]

You could have easily left out that last part, randomly attacking our character and claiming we're sketchy is rather rude.

The argument did not change, in fact these scans were used as supporting evidence, the argument has always remained the same.

Sorry but the OP was attacking others saying how “bias” they were when they gave out a rejection and u didn’t say anything. That’s a bit rude in itself

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Sorry but the OP was attacking others saying how “bias” they were when they gave out a rejection and u didn’t say anything. That’s a bit rude in itself

I never attacked anyone, please don't lie about my character. I simply stated that arguments made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. And implying otherwise implies some form of bias in favor of the person making the argument, now this thread can't close if people still talk in it. I'll make a simplified version of the latter half of my blog in preparation for Phoenks' blog, now let's let this thread be laid to rest.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

I'm the guy who advocates going the lowest option and leaving it as Low 2-C but even I think Phoenks doesn't make sense

There are several things you seem to be leaving out.

First, as was said, 2-A was already there from the beginning and only the gacha game stuff was added because there were those who continued to insist that it was not enough even though the arguments were clear.

second, ignore a small detail, the game did not need any of that, Fantasia Re:build is a gacha game where the characters from the Fantasia Bunko franchises interact, it did not need a plot or explanations of how that was possible, it did not need If the worlds were given an origin (Ocean of Dimensions), a reason why the worlds don't interact normally (Wall of Light) or mentions of infinite worlds and infinite possibilities, none of that was necessary, but still the scriptwriters of the game (among which was Ishibumi himself) I added all that, you know what that is called: Lore

and considering that we have the author of DxD himself involved who has already written about alternative timelines before, I don't see why they wouldn't take it as canon

 

[Vietthai96]

econd, ignore a small detail, the game did not need any of that, Fantasia Re:build is a gacha game where the characters from the Fantasia Bunko franchises interact, it did not need a plot or explanations of how that was possible, it did not need If the worlds were given an origin (Ocean of Dimensions), a reason why the worlds don't interact normally (Wall of Light) or mentions of infinite worlds and infinite possibilities, none of that was necessary, but still the scriptwriters of the game (among which was Ishibumi himself) I added all that, you know what that is called: Lore

and considering that we have the author of DxD himself involved who has already written about alternative timelines before, I don't see why they wouldn't take it as canon

Doesn't matter, Fantasia Re:build is a game which crossover with many LN verses, by making the game canon, you literally asking for DxD to canon to many other LN verse such as Date a Live, Akashic Records of Bastard Magic Instructor, etc....which is completely against the rule of the site. Secondly, the game isn't even a DxD game that collab with other game, but just a random gacha game that crossover with multiple LN verses.

Ishibumi involved in scriptwriters isn't mean somehow the game is canon to DxD verse

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Doesn't matter, Fantasia Re:build is a game which crossover with many LN verses, by making the game canon, you literally asking for DxD to canon to many other LN verse such as Date a Live, Akashic Records of Bastard Magic Instructor, etc....which is completely against the rule of the site. Secondly, the game isn't even a DxD game that collab with other game, but just a random gacha game that crossover with multiple LN verses.

Ishibumi involved in scriptwriters isn't mean somehow the game is canon to DxD verse

Please just let the thread end naturally or I'll have to ask a staff member to close it. We can continue the discussion in a more organized way in the next thread, my blog for the supporting side of 2-A is almost finished.

 

[BlackeJan]

I never attacked anyone, please don't lie about my character. I simply stated that arguments made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. And implying otherwise implies some form of bias in favor of the person making the argument, now this thread can't close if people still talk in it. I'll make a simplified version of the latter half of my blog in preparation for Phoenks' blog, now let's let this thread be laid to rest.

I’m sorry but yes u did and u know it. I’ve been reading all of the messages in this thread. U are right however, we should ask a staff to just close this since another thread will be made anyways

 

[MasqueTLDF]

I’m sorry but yes u did and u know it. I’ve been reading all of the messages in this thread.

I really don't appreciate the accusations being made and would prefer that you'd stop, thank you.

 

[BlackeJan]

I really don't appreciate the accusations being made and would prefer that you'd stop, thank you.

I really don’t appreciate u lying and would prefer that you’d stop, thank you

After this post we both stop and ask for a staff to close this thread

 

[MasqueTLDF]

I really don’t appreciate u lying and would prefer that you’d stop, thank you

Please do not interact with me on the VSBW forum or wiki after this, I'd prefer if things didn't escalate into something it doesn't need to be. If you insist on trying to contact me after this point, I will be forced to make a report which I'd prefer not have to happen. I've been being completely cordial throughout the entire discussion while you keep on instigating an argument with passive aggressive to aggressive comments and I've had enough. This is a warning not a threat, thank you for your understanding.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Snip

One way canon exists and is an allowed thing in the wiki.

Also… no not really?

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Just making sure everyone is aware of this blog before the next thread.

 

[CurrySenpai]

TBF elizhaa herself also confirmed that if the 4-D construct is infinite and CAPABLE of holding infinite timelines, then it is 2-A.

DxD already had this, the gacha game just outright confirmed that infinite timelines exist

 

[CurrySenpai]

Crazy thing about Elizhaa doing that, the thread where it was decided was to set such a precedent of reaching 2-A, so saying it goes against wiki policy when wiki staff directly voted on it to be valid is a bit… weird.

If you don’t like it you can make a CRT on that, but unless that changes DxD is 2-A, gacha game scans or not

 

[Phoenks]

The way this is being done is very obtuse. You need to actually have the Gacha Game accepted as canon before you use it as evidence.

You can't just slide scans from that gacha game into your CRT when its canonicity has not even been verified.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

The way this is being done is very obtuse. You need to actually have the Gacha Game accepted as canon before you use it as evidence.

You can't just slide scans from that gacha game into your CRT when its canonicity has not even been verified.

That's what the new blog is for, and the "You need to actually have the Gacha Game accepted as canon before you use it as evidence." part is what's difficult. I've tried something similar in the past with the anime and 0 staff gave it a second thought which is why I included the reasoning for the anime, re:build or whatever else being canon with the various blogs. And new information is revealed all the time during CRTs, this isn't anything new. Also, could you maybe post your thread so we can get it over with? I don't exactly have a ton of time to argue so I'd like to just get my arguments in the ring.

 

[CurrySenpai]

The way this is being done is very obtuse. You need to actually have the Gacha Game accepted as canon before you use it as evidence.

You can't just slide scans from that gacha game into your CRT when its canonicity has not even been verified.

It's crazy cause the Infinite 4-D and being able to contain timelines argument was the base one, and Elizhaa and other staff confirmed it was fine, even in an earlier thread which set such a precedent.

But the gacha game only served to show Infinite Timelines existed, which isn't even required for this method of getting 2-A.

 

[Phoenks]

That's what the new blog is for, and the "You need to actually have the Gacha Game accepted as canon before you use it as evidence." part is what's difficult. I've tried something similar in the past with the anime and 0 staff gave it a second thought which is why I included the reasoning for the anime, re:build or whatever else being canon with the various blogs. And new information is revealed all the time during CRTs, this isn't anything new. Also, could you maybe post your thread so we can get it over with? I don't exactly have a ton of time to argue so I'd like to just get my arguments in the ring.

The new blog needs to be made into a CRT before you can throw in scans from the game into your DXD cosmology upgrade (this thread). It has not been accepted as canon so scans from the game are not usable. It's that simple.


This thread has not yet concluded.

It's crazy cause the Infinite 4-D and being able to contain timelines argument was the base one, and Elizhaa and other staff confirmed it was fine, even in an earlier thread.

I already provided actual wiki standard that says otherwise.

And Elizhaa did not agree with the reasoning on the thread. They confirmed that it is only possible if the space is confirmed to be capable of holding infinite universes. Not that THIS specific structure in the cosmology does have evidence for that.

It isn't even an agreement with the thread.

But the gacha game only served to show Infinite Timelines existed, which isn't even required for this method of getting 2-A.

Can't be used.

 

[CurrySenpai]

I already provided actual wiki standard that says otherwise.

Are these wiki standards in the room with us right now?

And Elizhaa did not agree with the reasoning on the thread. They confirmed that it is only possible if the space is confirmed to be capable of holding infinite universes. Not that THIS specific structure in the cosmology does have evidence for that.

That... that was the argument? The Dimensional Gap is stated to be connected to these timelines and has statements of being infinite and capable of holding these branching paths / infinite timelines, so like......

I don't knoooooow.......

 

[MasqueTLDF]

The new blog needs to be made into a CRT before you can throw in scans from the game into your DXD cosmology upgrade (this thread). It has not been accepted as canon so scans from the game are not usable. It's that simple.


This thread has not yet concluded.

Um, I don't believe that's how it works. Could you point out that specific rule?

I've asked a staff member to close it...

Can't be used.

Could you maybe provide some evidence as to why?

 

[Phoenks]

Um, I don't believe that's how it works. Could you point out that specific rule?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Crossovers

It's outlined on this page. You have to prove what level of crossover the Gacha Game is relative to DxD in order to have it used as canon material.

It requires a separate CRT.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Crossovers

It's outlined on this page. You have to prove what level of crossover the Gacha Game is relative to DxD in order to have it used as canon material.

Which I've done.

It requires a separate CRT.

Where does it say that exactly?

 

[Phoenks]

Where does it say that exactly?

It doesn't exactly say "make a CRT" but in order to prove it and have it accepted you need a CRT where staff accept your arguments.

You can't just make arguments why it is canon and not have them evaluated.

You especially can't just claim it is canon and then use statements from it in a CRT. That's not allowed.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

It doesn't exactly say "make a CRT" but in order to prove it and have it accepted you need a CRT where staff accept your arguments.

You can't just make arguments why it is canon and not have them evaluated.

You especially can't just claim it is canon and then use statements from it in a CRT. That's not allowed.

The CRT was to get my blog accepted and a 2-A cosmology section added to the verse page. The blog features the Re:Build stuff and it's integral to 2-A. It's the staff's job to review the blog and the thread, if they agree, it means both are valid in favor of who they support. (Of course this would only apply relative to the contents of each update to the information presented) And you admitted yourself that I needn't create a CRT, my evidence is fine as it's presented.

 

[Phoenks]

The CRT was to get my blog accepted and a 2-A cosmology section added to the verse page. The blog features the Re:Build stuff and it's integral to 2-A. It's the staff's job to review the blog and the thread, if they agree, it means both are valid in favor of who they support. (Of course this would only apply relative to the contents of each update to the information presented) And you admitted yourself that I needn't create a CRT, my evidence is fine as it's presented.

I will repeat myself again.

You can not use Re: Build as evidence in your cosmology blog/for this thread until Re: Build is accepted as sufficient canon for DxD in a SEPERATE CRT. You just claiming/arguing that "it is" is not enough.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Are we completely glazing over the fact we don't NEED it?

Infinite on a 4-D scale with statements of being able to hold or contain infinite timelines was the og argument. Re: Build is just showing that infinite timelines exist, which still isn't entirely relevant to the last argument.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

I will repeat myself again.

You can not use Re: Build as evidence in your cosmology blog/for this thread until Re: Build is accepted as sufficient canon for DxD in a SEPERATE CRT. You just claiming/arguing that "it is" is not enough.

You claiming a separate CRT is needed for Re:Build to be considered canon without any evidence is not enough.

 

[Phoenks]

Infinite on a 4-D scale with statements of being able to hold or contain infinite timelines was the og argument.

"Infinite on a 4-D scale" is not 2-A as per Note 1 of the Tiering System

Because the distance between any given number of universes embedded in higher-dimensional / higher-order spaces is currently unknowable, it is impossible to quantify the numerical gap between each one of the subtiers in Tier 2. As such, it is not allowed to upgrade such a character based solely on multipliers. For example, someone twice as strong as a Low 2-C character would still be Low 2-C, and someone infinitely more powerful than a 2-C would not be 2-A. This does not mean that the difference between these tiers is greater than infinite, merely that the difference is unknown.

Re: Build is just showing that infinite timelines exist, which still isn't entirely relevant to the last argument.

Re: Build can not be used whatsoever until it's proven to be sufficient canon material to DxD.



It is insane how many times I have to repeat myself here.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

You claiming a separate CRT is needed for Re:Build to be considered canon without any evidence is not enough.

It should be common sense (or courtesy) that canonicity should be dealt in its own dedicated thread instead of trying to strong-arm it into the thread and just asserting it as canon. It's very shady debating tactics.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Re: Build can not be used whatsoever until it's proven to be sufficient canon material to DxD.



It is insane how many times I have to repeat myself here.

40. Argumentum ad nauseum, or argument from repetition.​

This is when someone keeps making a claim over and over again, but either does not provide actual evidence, or provides evidence which is later debunked, but keeps making the claim. Eventually (or so he hopes), his opponent will get tired of arguing and he can declare victory.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

It should be common sense that canonicity should be dealt in its own dedicated thread instead of trying to strong-arm it into the thread and just asserting it as canon.

There's enough evidence presented, so I don't see why that's necessary. Why not debunk it now? Are you unable to?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Are these wiki standards in the room with us right now?

you really don't need to be doing stuff like this, Curry

I don't know about the discussion aside from the gacha. I have been asked to appear here to confirm that the above page about Crossovers would inevitably and instantly disqualify the gacha as evidence. It can't be used if any of what Phoenks is saying is true. Full stop. This isn't an argument by repetition, it appears that the argument has simply not been properly approached. This isn't a test of endurance, it is stating a fact.

Ideally, this will be my sole contribution to this thread. Ideally.

 

[CurrySenpai]

"Infinite on a 4-D scale" is not 2-A as per Note 1 of the Tiering System

This… this is about multipliers… not cosmology. The note is specifically for reasons if you cannot get higher universe tiering from using multipliers not anything about how the cosmology is stated.

you really don't need to be doing stuff like this, Curry

My bad, I’ll cool it with the chicanery.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

you really don't need to be doing stuff like this, Curry

I don't know about the discussion aside from the gacha. I have been asked to appear here to confirm that the above page about Crossovers would inevitably and instantly disqualify the gacha as evidence. It can't be used if any of what Phoenks is saying is true. Full stop. This isn't an argument by repetition, it appears that the argument has simply not been properly approached. This isn't a test of endurance, it is stating a fact.

Ideally, this will be my sole contribution to this thread. Ideally.

Fine

 

[CurrySenpai]

Also, was your comment about making a CRT on the gacha oooor.

Cause the arguments for it right now are just “you didn’t make a crt to canonize it.” Which I’ll agree is important and should have been done, but I don’t think I’ve seen anyone bring up why the crossover is NON canon.

 

[Phoenks]

This… this is about multipliers… not cosmology. The note is specifically for reasons if you cannot get higher universe tiering from using multipliers not anything about how the cosmology is stated.

What you are arguing is effectively a multiplier. This doesn't require that much brainpower, seriously.

You are saying it is "infinite" on a 4-D scale. That's literally just like saying Low 2-C (4-D) multiplied by infinity. Like there is genuinely no difference. You are using the fact that it is "infinite" in retrospect to 4-D structures to prove it is somehow 2-A. That doesn't work.

This has been brought up in the thread before as well. It is not suitable evidence for making the structure 2-A.

Do I really need to bring in more staff to confirm something that is already written for you blatantly on the tiering system page? I just did it for the gacha game argument. I have no problem doing it for this if you guys are persistently unwilling to listen to me or the Tiering System itself.

I will also say that there has never been evidence that the Gap can hold infinite space-times. Nowhere is that mentioned on the blog. This is what would be needed for an upgrade, as stated by Elizhaa.

 

[Phoenks]

Also, was your comment about making a CRT on the gacha oooor.

Cause the arguments for it right now are just “you didn’t make a crt to canonize it.” Which I’ll agree is important and should have been done, but I don’t think I’ve seen anyone bring up why the crossover is NON canon.

It's not canon because gacha crossovers aren't assumed to be canon. It is on you to prove why it is, not us to prove why it isn't. This is common sense.

I also have a long list of reasons why it isn't canon should you ever release a CRT. I'm ready to nuke that from ever being an argument ever again, whenever you are ready.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Also, was your comment about making a CRT on the gacha oooor.

Cause the arguments for it right now are just “you didn’t make a crt to canonize it.” Which I’ll agree is important and should have been done, but I don’t think I’ve seen anyone bring up why the crossover is NON canon.

About the gacha in general. I've been told:

• The gacha is offline, can't be accessed to confirm information
• The gacha has no reliable means of translation (all Google translate)
• The gacha was essentially just all crossovers from other franchises (it isn't automatically canon to the crossover-verse purely because it has a crossover, see our page on the subject, linked above)

...among others. These are impassable obstacles in terms of canon. They cannot be passed.

 

[Phoenks]

About the gacha in general. I've been told:

• The gacha is offline, can't be accessed to confirm information
• The gacha has no reliable means of translation (all Google translate)
• The gacha was essentially just all crossovers from other franchises (it isn't automatically canon to the crossover-verse purely because it has a crossover, see our page on the subject, linked above)

...among others. These are impassable obstacles in terms of canon. They cannot be passed.

I mean I'll just go ahead now then, I guess.

So the blog mentions the gacha game "Fantasia Re:Build" which mentions infinite timelines in the verse, however, the connection and canonicity this has to DxD is honestly a complete mystery.

There are a number of issues I have with this:

• The game shut down years ago in 2021, so not much can even be verified about it now. I don't even know where they got the scans for the infinite timelines nor do I know if they are actually in the game. Literally everything is unknown regarding those scans due to this. This is pretty much the crux of the issue, because It means I don't have much information to even work on here.
• The game was never fully translated (According to supporters), which is why the supporters are using google translate. This is just another nail in the coffin for verifiability.
• According to this article, the verse is literally MADE of crossovers between other verses, NOT JUST DXD. So there's no reason to say that these cosmology only applies to DxD, or that DXD and this game have some special relationship with each other that makes this gacha game canon to its cosmology. The fandom also mentions it being a "crossover game" featuring multiple LNs.
• There is no scan that verifies what the setting of Fantasia is. Whether it is in the Fantasia verse, or in the DxD verse, or in some crossover between the two.
• There is no scan in DxD that references this cosmology whatsoever.
• Overall, SO many unknowns!

Now, to go over the scans in the blog itself. They apparently tried using the fact that DxD's author, Ishibumi, had place in writing for the gacha game. But this alone does not mean that this somehow connects it to DXD. I don't know how you can possibly draw that line of logic. Many authors also take place writing non-canon crossovers, such as in the case of MANY gacha game crossovers. They happen all the damn time!

The author himself also just refers to this as being a crossover. (Somehow the DxD people think this is evidence of canonicity????)

• There are loose references to the game in DxD canon material. That is about the extent of its "canonicity" to the series.

The author himself explicitly states what series are actually canon to DxD. Fantasia is not mentioned anywhere in here.

All that being said, I think it is pretty clear that these Fantasia scans can't be used. There are too many missing puzzle pieces. It seems to just be a non-canon crossover, like those that happen between many, many other series—especially in the realm of gacha games.