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Do you still agree Dreamy Luigi, Antasma, and dream worlds can be Low 2-C, though?
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Dream Stone Re-Upgrade CRT
- Thread starter Foxthefox1000
- Start date
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- Tags
- dream stone mario zeekeeper
- Status
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
He/Him- 3,579
- 2,105
He is asking to repeat your points regarding Low 2-C/2-B extents.
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Yeah, as long the dreams are universal 8n size it's a Tier 2 feat.
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Well, think of it this way...
The Dream Stone has existed for, at least, an entire era, and it's stated by everyone in Dream Team, the prosperity of the Pi'illo Kingdom dated back to an entire era ago. According to the Geological Time Scale, an era would be 100,000,000 years ago, and since there are dozens of innumerable species on Pi'illo Isle, including Nommon, Hooskis, countless monsters, guardians such as Mammoshka and Zeekeeper, the Pi'illos, etc.
Let's assume the smallest island population, which is 100,000. It is shown dozens of times throughout the game--what with Big Massif, Dr. Snoozemore, Mammoshka, etc. that the characters fall asleep numerous times a day due to Pi'illo Island's strange sleepy wavelength. We'll use as many low-ends as possible. 100,000 x 365.25 = 36,525,000. Because people dream 4 to 7 times a night--and people on Pi'illo Isle dream multiple times, we'll use the low-end and assume they all sleep twice. 36,525,000 x 8 = 292,200,000. Finally... 292,200,000 x 100,000,000 = 29,220,000,000,000,000 dreams/universes that are in the Dream Stone.
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
He/Him- 3,579
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Damn that's nice! It's some nice deductions right there!
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- Thread starter
- #86
Ah, sorry. I'll add some of the evidence for effecting dreams in the op.
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Era in most definitions does not mean 100,000,000 years
And in this case I'm inclined to believe the more common use is the one in use than the geological definition of it
So I disagree with 100,000,000 years since Eras can mean many different lengths of time
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Not sure about the “eras” part but it’d still be 2-B, just to a lower degree
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Exactly
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Maybe try the length of a Pilo lifespan since the dialogue in game heavily implies no one is alive from the Pilo Kingdom Era
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- Thread starter
- #91
Iirc it's implied that they are pretty old.
Not sure how old, but new settlers migrated to the island and began excavating ancient relics of the race, which should tell us it's been a pretty long time.
Perhaps there's a statement in-game of how long people have been researching the Pi'illos. Or maybe there's a real-world timeframe for how long it has to be before something is considered an ancient relic.
Not sure how old, but new settlers migrated to the island and began excavating ancient relics of the race, which should tell us it's been a pretty long time.
Perhaps there's a statement in-game of how long people have been researching the Pi'illos. Or maybe there's a real-world timeframe for how long it has to be before something is considered an ancient relic.
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- Thread starter
- #93
Vote counted.
Did I miss any so far?
Did I miss any so far?
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We just need some more staff votes.
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Agree with this.
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Shmeaty's not asking for how long the Pi'illos have existed, he's asking for the lifespan of an average Pi'illo folk. Like, how long does an average Pi'illo live for
Edit: At least, I think that's what he's saying
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To clarify, the whole stone can fragment into how many dreams/nightmares?
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At least 52
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Assuming that each dream is accepted as Low 2-C, then the whole Stone would be 2-C, no?
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Idk where he got at least 52 from, we have a calculated value that comes out to 292,200,000 universes
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52 was the number of Pi’illo trapped in nightmare chunks, aka the result of the Dark Stone shattering.
You can calc the number of dreams that could theoretically be in the dream stone but a major plot point is that the stone loses power and has to be recharged by the Dreambeats, so you can only really look at how many dreams are present during the game
You can calc the number of dreams that could theoretically be in the dream stone but a major plot point is that the stone loses power and has to be recharged by the Dreambeats, so you can only really look at how many dreams are present during the game
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This is just incorrect, because the number of Pi'illo in nightmare chunks is not indicative of the number of dreams the Dream Stone holds, nor should it be used as some sort of arbitrary "lowball"
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I agree, but the numbers calculating how many dreams exist across decades is also sort of irrelevant, since the stone doesn’t have the power of those dreams within when Bowser absorbed it.
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First off: Why not?
Second: That doesn't matter since the Zeekeeper matched the Dream Stone's power
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Was asked to comment here. While I can potential agree with the OP, I can't comment on the numbers/scaling that is being discussed, I just lack the full understanding of this Mario game.
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He matched the Stone with only the number of dreams gotten from the game’s events (aka the dreams collected in the Dreambeats scene)
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You keep asserting this thing of "only the number of dreams gotten from the game's events."
Like, no. It would be all the dreams period. Do you have any proof of the contrary?
Like, no. It would be all the dreams period. Do you have any proof of the contrary?
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The fact the stone was drained of its power, and a plot point is that they have to charge the stone with dream energy from the Dreambeats before they can use it?
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How do you know how much it was drained? Why does the energy of 1 Dreambeat = only 1 universe? Hell, I hardly know where you're getting this from, given that Antasma and Bowser literally have the Dream Stone in their possession for most of the game
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The Dreambeats aren’t powering the stone, they put the island to sleep so their dreams can be harvested and put in the stone. The story goes they get the stone in Dozing Sands, realize they can’t make wishes due to lacking power, and thus plan to harvest dreams from Pi’illo Island to recharge the stone by putting the island to sleep.
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Bowser and Antasma literally use the Dream Stone to wish for Neo Bowser Castle, including the barrier around it, so it's definitely regained its power by then since wishes can be made. The Zeekeeper then destroys this barrier with the Wakebeam
Edit: Okay yeah, I forgot what the Dreambeats were tbh. Looking at it again, my point still stands. The Dream Stone is at full power when Neo Bowser Castle is made.
Kirbonic_Pikmin
He/Him- 3,480
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I don’t really feel like debating validity of Dream uni sizes right now but I have absolutely no idea how we’re arguing that the Dream Stone is like 26 Quadrillion x uni when it was a plot point that the stone was completely de powered and needed to be recharged with expressly the dreams/dream spirits of characters on the Pillo Island. If we’re accepting dreams as universes fully then the Dream Stone being L2C/2C is fine, but absolutely no degree of 2B lol
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Yes that is the point I’ve been trying to make
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And it's not a good point. This usage of 52 Pi'illo is not even some kind of "safe lowball" it's an arbitrary one created for the sake of it. The correlation is nonexistent
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I counted myself and the number of dreams the stone would absorb in the present is enough for 2-B, just only in the double digit thousands at most (less than 30K even when counting all dream world enemies).
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Could you explain how you got this? I'd like to know the process
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Went through the game and counted every unique NPC and enemy that could feasibly exist when the Dreambeats started.
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- Thread starter
- #118
To be fair, I'm just saying that the previous rating it has should be applied again.
In no way is it just Low 2-C though. It has to be 2-C at bare minimum. We don't actually know the population of the island so best we could do is guess based otm real world examples or go by the NPC count in the game. There's entire crowds of people near the start and towards the end as well I'm sure that'll be fun to count. It's entirely likely that the Dreambeats also put the wildlife to sleep as well which would also throw the number off.
I don't think a population of more than 1000 for an island is that unreasonable to assume but I guess if people want hard numbers instead of assumptions then we can go about trying to count all the NPCs in the game minus the Pi'illo folk cause it was explicitly mentioned it doesn't work on Dreambert so I'd assume that's true for the rest as well.
In no way is it just Low 2-C though. It has to be 2-C at bare minimum. We don't actually know the population of the island so best we could do is guess based otm real world examples or go by the NPC count in the game. There's entire crowds of people near the start and towards the end as well I'm sure that'll be fun to count. It's entirely likely that the Dreambeats also put the wildlife to sleep as well which would also throw the number off.
I don't think a population of more than 1000 for an island is that unreasonable to assume but I guess if people want hard numbers instead of assumptions then we can go about trying to count all the NPCs in the game minus the Pi'illo folk cause it was explicitly mentioned it doesn't work on Dreambert so I'd assume that's true for the rest as well.
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I suppose that works. Could also be easier to just look for an average island's population. A quick search on Wikipedia shows that the smallest island by population is Yeongjongdo at 100,000 people. I may prefer this simply because by counting all the NPCs you may miss out on some characters that are perhaps not explicit NPCs, but like part of a crowd for example.
Whatever number we use for the total population, though, you'll wanna subtract the number of Pi'illo folk though, since they're immune to it
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For reference the total for real world entities was like ~4000, counting dream worlds stuff it ranged from 9000-26813 dreams.
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