• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Dream Stone Re-Upgrade CRT

Status
Not open for further replies.
JTGamer96 said:
Still, we're not trying to prove anything about infinite energy or infinite anything; we're trying to find a reliable method of counting all the dreams to get the Dream Stone back to 2-B.
Click to expand...
My point is that 2-B as a tier involves infinite energy since it’s above High 3-A
 
Dust_Collector said:
Bowser doesn't necessarily need to demonstrate 2-B but it would if we had a statement or something that he was able to harness or use the full power of the stone, think we set standards like this a while back to be more strict about characters using the power of whatever mcguffins.
Click to expand...
That's the big thing. You have to have more to it than just being powered by something, you have to have an example or statement where you use it to get a full rating. Or at least that's how I understand it.
CloverDragon03 said:
I’m just not a fan of the fact that despite this, we still gotta go “ok but feats tho?”
Click to expand...
I mean, yeah. For those higher tiers you have to go "Ok but feats though?". We can't just hand them out just because.
JTGamer96 said:
The point of this thread isn't to prove anything about infinite energy;
Click to expand...
You're missing my point. Bowser is empowered by an object. The rule is that you have to prove he can use that objects full power in order for him to scale AP wise. Infinite magnitude is what that means, that he can use the object's full energy at will.
JTGamer96 said:
the Dream Stone had infinite energy
Click to expand...
You don't understand our tiering system. Anything after 3-A has infinite energy just in different magnitudes. Tier High 1-A and High 3-A both involve infinite energy, but one is infinite with Inaccessible Cardinal and the other is infinite joules. The Dream Stone by being Tier 2 automatically has infinite energy under our system.
JTGamer96 said:
t's not like the Dream Stone absorbed an infinite amount of dreams.
Click to expand...
I want you and others to read the following:
  • I'm not saying the Dream Stone is 2-A
  • I'm not saying the Dream Stone is Tier 3
  • I'm saying that the Dreams are universal individually and collectively are 2-B
  • I'm asking if you have evidence that Bowser can use the stone's full power with a statement or feat.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I don't see the difference. He never the ability to effect the entire cosmology like the Chaos Heart
Click to expand...
The Dream Stone and the Chaos Heart are two different things.

Firstly, the Dream Stone was never going to affect the entire cosmology, that we know of, while the Chaos Heart was specifically made to destroy everything. Secondly, the Chaos Heart is a doomsday weapon while how the Dream Stone works isn't even similar to that.

The two should not be compared to each other.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
The Dream Stone by being Tier 2 has infinite energy, I'm asking if you have evidence that Bowser can use the stone's full power with a statement or feat.
Click to expand...
How does an object that's absorbing a finite amount of Low 2-C structures not count as infinite energy? We've already settled that these dreams are Universal+ due to having dimensions, space-time, and additional layers of dreams the characters have in them. And I've done a calculation on how much energy it would take to destroy an entire timeline only to get an infinite amount of it.
 
JTGamer96 said:
How does an object that's absorbing a finite amount of Low 2-C structures not count as infinite energy? We've already settled that these dreams are Universal+ due to having dimensions, space-time, and additional layers of dreams the characters have in them. And I've done a calculation on how much energy it would take to destroy an entire timeline only to get an infinite amount of it.
Click to expand...
Qaw is not talking about the Dream Stone, he’s talking about Dreamy Bowser, who absorbed it.

Absorbing a 2-B construct would make you 2-B. That simple
 
CloverDragon03 said:
No, you don’t have to when you have something as straightforward as “he absorbed the entirety of this 2-B thing”
Click to expand...
I see two rules that would effect it

Q: What tier does a character being the source of all dimensions equate to?​

For this to be a quantifiable feat, it must first be confirmed that the character meets either the creation or stabilization feat standards. If that is the case, the character's tier is determined by the amount of dimensions that verse is actually known to have.
Click to expand...

Q: What is the Tier for possessing Infinite Power or Infinite Strength?​

A: Statements regarding infinite power, infinite strength, or unlimited quantities do not automatically indicate an ability to produce an infinite amount of energy at once. For example, a power source that never depletes could have an infinite quantity of energy, but can't necessarily be wielded with infinite magnitude (not all at once). Statements involving "infinite power/strength" must be clearly indicative of magnitude to qualify for tiering, in order to avoid inflated ratings or inconsistencies in a story. Further, the hyperbolic nature of the phrase must be taken into consideration, where characters are prone to describing someone's power as infinite in a context where it is so great as to be insurmountable from their perspective, but not truly infinite in a manner relevant to their tier. If proven, however, statements of infinite strength would qualify for High 3-A or higher if evidence regarding a higher degree of infinity above baseline is established.
Click to expand...
The stone is simple:
  • If the Dream Stone is responsible for the existence of all Dreams it's 2-B
  • If the Dream Stone completely consumed a bunch of Dreams I can also see 2-B
Either way it's 2-B either way. The issue I see is with Bowser since to qualify you would need to show something like:
  • If Bowser has a showing of effecting all dreams he's 2-B
  • If Bowser is stated as having the stones full power I can see 2-B
Just having the stone I don't see it being automatically 2-B.
JTGamer96 said:
How does an object that's absorbing a finite amount of Low 2-C structures not count as infinite energy?
Click to expand...
Bruh
Qawsedf234 said:
I'm saying that the Dreams are universal individually and collectively are 2-B
Click to expand...
Please read what I'm asking for.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Bruh

Please read what I'm asking for.
Click to expand...
Whaddya mean "bruh"?
JTGamer96 said:
Okay, remember the orbs in Mario Party 5? The Future Dream appeared in the shape of one at some point in the game, and like DDM said, the dreams you enter in Mario Party 5 are mirror dimensions of equal size; the ending credits clearly just shows you Future Dream multiple times and/or has multiple Future Dreams if we see it more than once. Seeing as how dreams can take the shape of an orb in that scan and context, and we don't seem to have anything other way besides this to count the people's dreams the Dream Stone actually absorbed, this could possibly mean that the dream orbs the Dream Stone absorbed were actually the people's dreams.
Click to expand...
I told you right here that Dreams were able to take on the shape of an orb as evidenced in Mario Party 5. When the people were put to sleep from the Dreambeats, the Dream Stone was literally absorbing orb-like figures from them.
 
ZespeonGalaxy said:
So is… what others are saying currently. Glad you understood now
Click to expand...
I've never not said that. I don't know why you're all implying I said the Dream Stone wasn't Tier 2 when I was showed that hundreds of comments ago.
JTGamer96 said:
Whaddya mean "bruh"?
Click to expand...
Because I wasn't asking if the Dream Stone was 2-B, I was asking if Bowser showed evidence of using 2-B levels of power.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Either way it's 2-B either way. The issue I see is with Bowser since to qualify you would need to show something like:
  • If Bowser has a showing of effecting all dreams he's 2-B
  • If Bowser is stated as having the stones full power I can see 2-B
Click to expand...
My problem is that I don’t believe I need to answer either of these specifically, given the context of the situation. If you acknowledge that the Dream Stone is 2-B, it should naturally follow that absorbing it in its entirety would make said character 2-B. Occam’s Razor would also support the idea that he absorbed the stone’s full power, as he absorbed the entire stone

Also I don’t see how the rules you showed affect this
 
JTGamer96 said:
While it seems like Luigi's dream isn't being absorbed, there's also not any direct implication throughout the game that it wasn't absorbed. Now, I have a theory for this... Assuming the dream was absorbed, when Mario and Luigi went through the Dream Portal to try and get away from the Dreambeats, the portal soon closed since Dreambert stated the music has made Luigi so deep in his sleep that it cannot remain stable. And the only way the Bros could reopen the portal was by defeating the dreamy version of Mount Pajamaja in combat. So, here's what I think... it's likely that Luigi's dream was inside the Dream Stone, but after defeating Mount Pajamaja, the Mario Bros were able to use the portal to escape from the stone that held said dream
Click to expand...
Only dream orbs where absorbed not dreams
 
Lou_change said:
Only dream orbs where absorbed not dreams
Click to expand...
As I said before...
JTGamer96 said:
Okay, remember the orbs in Mario Party 5? The Future Dream appeared in the shape of one at some point in the game, and like DDM said, the dreams you enter in Mario Party 5 are mirror dimensions of equal size; the ending credits clearly just shows you Future Dream multiple times and/or has multiple Future Dreams if we see it more than once. Seeing as how dreams can take the shape of an orb in that scan and context, and we don't seem to have anything other way besides this to count the people's dreams the Dream Stone actually absorbed, this could possibly mean that the dream orbs the Dream Stone absorbed were actually the people's dreams.
Click to expand...
 
JJSliderman said:
Just say Dreamy Bowser can tank hits from the Wakebeam which destroyed a barrier the Dream Stone made with its dream energy
Click to expand...
Yeah, and let's not forget that Peach and Starlow used their power to harm Bowser and destroy the Dream Stone which contained all those universes. And that Dreamy Bowser was able to bring in objects and minions from the Dream Worlds.
 
Lou_change said:
Not necessarily those are an entirely different color with events visible inside them and if theu are just dreams why aren't they just called dreams
Click to expand...
Do you have any other ideas or instances of the dreams being absorbed into the Dream Stone, then?
 
Mephistus said:
Dreambert says he absorbed all the stone's energy. So.

Pasteboard - Uploaded Image

Simple and lightning fast image sharing. Upload clipboard images with Copy & Paste and image files with Drag & Drop
pasteboard.co
Click to expand...
Thank you sm for this, atp Im not sure how youre supposed to convince yourself "Bowser didnt use all of the dreamstones power" or go "Bowser needs to show he used all of the energy" You gotta straight up have a bias if somehow thats not enough
 
The stone(s) is still confirmed to hold plural number of dreams as a power source as per the narration sequence of Antasma breaking the Dark Stone. How would absorbing from parts of / from dreams make sense in context if the dream orbs aren't whole dreams? How did it then originally gain dreams in them then if it's charged in this same process Ant did? This argument is already in the op how the sequence works for the stone to hold a thousand plus dreams.
 
Last edited:
Mephistus said:
The stone(s) is still confirmed to hold plural number of dreams as a power source as per the narration sequence of Antasma breaking the Dark Stone. How would absorbing from parts of / from dreams make sense in context if the dream orbs aren't whole dreams? How did it then originally gain dreams in them then if it's charged in this same process Ant did? This argument is already in the op how the sequence works for the stone to hold a thousand plus dreams.
Click to expand...
What else are we supposed to use, then? The idea that the Dream Stone absorbed a certain amount of dreams over an era or something else? We're already having a hard time counting the number of finite dreams the Dream Stone absorbed, and I've argued that the dreams can take on the shape of an orb as evidenced in Mario Party 5.
Qawsedf234 said:
Because I wasn't asking if the Dream Stone was 2-B, I was asking if Bowser showed evidence of using 2-B levels of power.
Click to expand...
If Dreamy Bowser bringing in different minions and objects from dream worlds during his final battle with the Mario Bros isn't using that level of power, what is? Can't we scale Bowser's durability to 2-B for his Dreamy key not only because he can take hits from the Wakebeam, but also because he withstood the same power Peach and Starlow used destroyed the Dream Stone which we seem to agree is a 2-B artifact?
 
JTGamer96 said:
Can't we scale Bowser's durability to 2-B for his Dreamy key not only because he can take hits from the Wakebeam, but also because he withstood the same power Peach and Starlow used destroyed the Dream Stone which we seem to agree is a 2-B artifact?
Click to expand...
Wakebeam seems fine for the most part, but destroying the stone itself is not a 2-B feat unless we can prove it has durability on the same level as it's full power. We don't scale artifacts durability to their full output without good reason.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Wakebeam seems fine for the most part, but destroying the stone itself is not a 2-B feat unless we can prove it has durability on the same level as it's full power. We don't scale artifacts durability to their full output without good reason.
Click to expand...
Then why don't we just scale Dreamy Bowser to the Zeekeeper's attacks since he was able to destroy the barrier with a Wakebeam? If we can scale Bowser's durability to the Wakebeam, we should be able to scale his other stats to the Zeekeeper, right?
 
Last edited:
Can't bump it hasn't been 12 hours, sorry bub but I gotta report you for breaking the rules.

On a serious note making Dreamy Bowser 2-B on the basic of being comparable to the Zeekeepers attacks due to being able to withstand them might be fine? It could work, but I think it might be better to get more solid opinions on that.
 
On a side note if 2-B is coming back, Giant Dreamy Luigi should get it back too, since he can also fight the Zeekeeper and is made of thousands of DLs combined to justify him being more powerful than standard DL. Plus, maybe say Mario and Luigi in the real world are 2-B with the Zee Egg.
 
They should definitely get a special rating for being able to summon the Zeekeeper, who fully scales to these shenanigans without question. Always bugged me that they didn't have it before
 
Vote counted. Not sure if I should count the previous disagrees yet since the person they quoted seems to have relented. But I think that's enough mod votes now.
 
JTGamer96 said:
Dreamy Bowser bringing in different minions and objects from dream worlds during his final battle with the Mario Bros isn't using that level of power, what is?
Click to expand...
Teleporting people and objects is nowhere near enough evidence for 2-B.

Like the scaling with the beam stuff is fine, but warping in something is not an AP feat.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Teleporting people and objects is nowhere near enough evidence for 2-B.

Like the scaling with the beam stuff is fine, but warping in something is not an AP feat.
Click to expand...
Can I ask for your opinion on this?


Mephistus said:
Dreambert says he absorbed all the stone's energy. So.

Pasteboard - Uploaded Image

Simple and lightning fast image sharing. Upload clipboard images with Copy & Paste and image files with Drag & Drop
pasteboard.co
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

CloverDragon03
Super Mario Revision: What to Do About Dreams?
Replies
13
Views
2K
Iamunanimousinthat
Iamunanimousinthat
Ar1216789
  • Locked
Possible 1-C Upgrade for Cookie Run - Dream Transcendences
Replies
4
Views
847
Ar1216789
Ar1216789
Naeem0304
[MCU] Stormbreaker Upgrade (Mild resistance to the Infinity Gauntlet/Stones)
2
Replies
40
Views
1K
Bernkastelll
Bernkastelll
Dust_Collector
Dreamy Bowser Existence Erasure Justification
Replies
14
Views
1K
Dust_Collector
Dust_Collector
Raincutter
Freddy Krueger big upgrades
Replies
18
Views
1K
Random-Helper323
Random-Helper323
Back
Top