Dragonball Movie Characters Speed

[FTW395]

The current rating of the dragonball movie characters their speed is quite stupid. We have people like Turles being MFTL+, which would make him faster than even Super Saiyan Vegito. In all honesty that doesn't make sense, I know we gave them the MFTL rating from Goku dodging a rock in space (though that actually happened in the Anime and not in the movies). The more logical option should be to consider this an outlier, we scale canon characters to movie characters or we make a specific rule about Movie Dragonball Characters vs Canon Dragonball characters that their speed would scale in a logical matter.

 

[SomebodyData]

Anime canon ~ Movie Canon

Main Canon =/= Movie Canon

 

[Dark649]

No, we are scaling the movie character to the anime continuity where Goku did this speed feat, the canon characters are scaled to the manga continuity where Vegito is only at least FTL+, but currently is even faster than Turles, so this thread is pointless.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I agree with the OP. I don't care about the whole Vegito thing. I care about the fact that there's no way Goku went from Relativistic to MFTL+ with no new form, explanation, etc. The scene wasn't even important. We've put things as outliers when they've shown far more feats. I.E. Kirby having three universal feats in his game and we treat it as the epitome of game outliers. Galactic/Multi-Galactic Mario. U+ Sonic. Superman in general. It makes us look biased as anything.

 

[FTW395]

Yeah, I don't care about Anime Canon scaling to Movie Canon, because it doesn't. Movie Canon=/=Anime Canon they're two different things. It doesn't make any sense that a character who's in a direct continuation of the Anime feat(for instance vegito), doesn't get the feat. But the movie characters that have literally nothing to do with that anime feat do get the feat. The Goku that dodged the Rock in space is the same Goku that later on fought Frieza, not the Goku that fought Cooler.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Cal there is also the other MFTL+ feats (Bojack's MFTL+ feat, Kid Buu's MFTL+ feat, Broly's MFTL+ feat) and there is probably others that I forgot

 

[Antoniofer]

I agree with OP and Howard, the reason why movie characters were upgraded is pretty odd: the scene was just filler and has several inconsistencies like Goku being almost killed by a meteorite or being ahdhered to the ship by super glue...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If you're talking about Buu and Broly going on to gradually destroy galaxies, Ant said its best to keep AP and Speed different. And even then, all these instances are so far in the future that Cell's dead by that point. Honestly, I can accept MFTL+ Broly, but MFTL+ Turles is a joke

 

[SomebodyData]

@FTW our page is for canon Vegito.

Anime Canon is ~ Movie Canon.

Garlic Jr Saga anyone? Movie characters return from HFIL in GT?

 

[FTW395]

@SomebodyData sure, but those things don't give us a Turles who's MFTL and the Kid Buu feat still doesn't apply.

 

[PaChi2]

Cooler's? @SD

 

[FTW395]

@FTW our page is for canon Vegito.
Anime Canon is ~ Movie Canon.

Garlic Jr Saga anyone? Movie characters return from HFIL in GT?

Care to explain where in the Dragonball timeline the World's Strongest, The Tree of Might and The Lord Slug movie would fit?

 

[SomebodyData]

Well the argument is that it's an outlier right?

An outlier is a feat that does not fit with the average level of feats, which, as shown by the several MFTL+ feats, isn't working here.

There is also the fact that the SubRel feat has a different time span in the anime, and that Namek Saga Goku is an unknown amount of leagues higher than Early Saiyan Saga Piccolo.

@Pachi that too.

@Cal That's only applied in a situation in which a blast destroys something and we try getting speed from the speed in which it destroyed something, in this case, Broly / Kid Buu had to travel from solar system to solar system which is different

 

[FTW395]

Well the argument is that it's an outlier right?
An outlier is a feat that does not fit with the average level of feats, which, as shown by the several MFTL+ feats, isn't working here.

There is also the fact that the SubRel feat has a different time span in the anime, and that Namek Saga Goku is an unknown amount of leagues higher than Early Saiyan Saga Piccolo.

Neither of those things should make Turles a MFTL+ being. That is definitely an outlier. Hell the dodging rock feat came straight from the Anime. The Goku we see dodging the rock isn't a different Goku from the one who was fighting frieza.

 

[Dark649]

MFTL+ speed feats are a normal thing in every saga and every movies of the anime continuity, even in GT there are a lot of them. However FTW will think that they are all outliers, which are not.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Stills, the accepted result was somethinf in millions (or mayne trillion IIRC) which will make even the weakest in DBZ MFTL+

 

[FTW395]

MFTL+ speed feats are a normal thing in every saga and every movies of the anime continuity, even in GT there are a lot of them. However FTW will think that they are all outliers, which are not.

GT is a continuation of the anime, the movies are not.

 

[SomebodyData]

Care to explain where in the Dragonball timeline the World's Strongest, The Tree of Might and The Lord Slug movie would fit?

It really doesn't sadly. Of course, they don't fit in the canon one either, so we have to go with the one with the most evidence for it.

 

[Antoniofer]

I can accept post Cell games villians being mftl+, and still has some little contradictions, but I highly doubt that characters like Turles or Slug are millions of times SoL; and actually, no one has shown mftl+ feats in entire DBZ...

 

[SomebodyData]

@Antonio are you going to ignore all the MFTL+ feats listed in this thread?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Namek Goku (barely started his training) has the MFTL+ feat

 

[FTW395]

It really doesn't sadly. Of course, they don't fit in the canon one either, so we have to go with the one with the most evidence for it.

Exactly, hence why Movie canon =/= anime canon.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@SD. Off topic, but isn't that what we did with Piccolo and his moon feat?

Anyway, back on topic. I'd like to see the countless other times that they performed MFTL+ feats in GT, considering we've only recently put them at MFTL+. Someone probably would've noticed it by now, given that it is DB. I'm not even sure if Bojack's feat is MFTL+. I haven't seen the calc for it. Not to mention, with all the spacing, the first one should be treated as an outlier, as his best feat until Broly other than that filler scene was sub-rel. Even then, series can have more than four outliers. Look at the crap ton Superman has.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

They don't fix any where

Yet they still part of the Toei verse in DBZ

 

[Antoniofer]

Note: I said show, statement weren't showed, thats why I could agree with mftl+ Broly, Bojack and ahead, at least in flying speed. The calc that put Goku at mftl+ is pretty questionable for reasons above.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Honestly, saying these cameos in GT are canon is like saying Stan Lee's appearances in the MCU makes TOAA in that verse.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Cal actually no, we took a much longer time span with the feat.

The reason Superman has a crapton of outliers is because he has a lot more consistent feats below that level or above it. Can you tell me all the feats that outweigh all the MFTL+ feats?

In the cameos for Stan Lee, he simply acts as a supporting ultra minor of different occupations and peoples. This is not like the DBZ cameos in which one gets an entire arc and the others come back twice to fight the main cast.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No. I mean we got speed for his moon destruction in the manga.

Gotenks has sub-rel speed while circling the earth. Goku has sub-rel while flying at Namek. Goku has lightspeed dodging Frieza's death beams.

Then that's not a cameo. Garlic Jr. doesn't even fit in the canon (Piccolo doesn't know Gohan by BoZ), and he's the only one that makes a significant reappearance. Not even WENBROLLY. None come back twice in GT to fight the main cast for more than 2 minutes. So yes, it is like Stan Lee. Even Stan Lee gets to speak. Even then, they showed up in Fusion Reborn. Not during that one time in the Super 17 Saga.

 

[SomebodyData]

Yeah, though that one doesn't scale to the anime? Or are you saying something else?

Gotenks in the manga got Sub-Rel, not sure about the anime

Goku's sub-rel feat was debunked I believe back in the MHS+ days

The LS feat actually only comes from a statement in the manga, not the anime.

Broly, actually makes sense in the timeline (Cell Games Wait and Pre-Majin Buu Saga). Unless a villain comes back as a random janitor in his cameo then no, it's not like Stan Lee.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

As you already know, everything that happens in the manga happens in the anime. It's not like the anime is an entirely different piece of work. So all manga feats apply. Toeiverse still consists of Toriyama's work. It's not like DCEU compared to DCU.

Also, Superman's outliers are more consistent than these ones. Because there's TONS of them, some more shown than his low ends.

I don't recall it getting debunked. I only recall it being obsolete.

See point number one.

Random janitor that speaks in the canon > five seconds of screentime in a movie. Not even in GT.

 

[SomebodyData]

Yes, but not exactly the same way. Most of the anime versions of the feats have different factors involved, like actually having shown timeframes. So no, not all manga feats apply.

Really? Because from what I see, there are 5 MFTL+ feats compared to one Sub-Rel or higher (Anime timespan) from an extremely weaker character. If it is higher than this ratio (so 5:1 to 6:1), then Superman needs an upgrade.

Nah, If you were to go to his history, he was MHS+ https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Son_Goku?diff=22163&oldid=21595

Again, this statement is manga exclusive. We cannot simply scale canon to non-canon ratings.

No, it does not? You are taking the cameo out of proportion here. The cameo for Stan Lee is not a character cameo, it is a cameo because he is the creator of many iconic marvel heroes. I don't think you understand what kind of a cameo he makes?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Also, Superman's outliers are more consistent than these ones. Because there's TONS of them, some more shown than his low ends.

Actually, most of said outliers are also really misinterpreted to straight-up lying. I won't go into detail, but there was a very long thread on NF debunking all of it.

 

[RadicalMrR]

There is a mftl+ feat by the ginyu force in canon as well.

I feel superman is a bad example as hes had 100s of authurs and retcons where as DB is in single piece if media and even the anime had some toriyama involvment.

Though im neutral on this topic because I really dont care for most of the non canon stuff.

 

[SomebodyData]

So we got 6 MFTL+ feats?

2 of which are committed by weaker characters too...

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with Cal.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Crop so you believe that the 2 MFTL+ feats are outliers, and that the 4 other MFTL+ don't disprove the one At least Sub-Rel feat?

 

[Antoniofer]

I only recall 3 mftl+ feats, and all of them are statements: Buu destroying a galaxy overtime, same way with Broly and Bojack (and his gang) crossing the galaxy in a certain time. The Goku one in the ship doesn't seems accurate since the ship slower in several ocations and has several inconsistence, I would need to take a look at the Ginyu feat, what's the other one?

 

[RadicalMrR]

Ill post the ginyu one in an hour or so im, about to leave for my computer class.

 

[SomebodyData]

Supposeably a Cooler one, can't quite say I remember it though.

While they are statements, they did occur (Buu's massacre is part of the Universe's history, Bojack flew to Earth, Broly did it to destroy the Southern Galaxy) just not all on screen.

 

[Ryukama]

"I only recall 3 mftl+ feats, and all of them are statements: Buu destroying a galaxy overtime, same way with Broly and Bojack (and his gang) crossing the galaxy in a certain time."

Broly and Anime Buu's feats are actually shown and aren't just statements. And even then there is no reason to not believe the statements.