- 2,645
- 1,750
Trying to show some love to the Earthlings here.
Saiyan Arc
Chiaotzu
His current 5-B AP justifications says he is superior to Yajirobe, Pre-training Goku, and Pre-training Piccolo, none of these characters are 5-B, the latter two in particular is just Low 5-B (22 Zettatons). His power level is 610, putting him above those characters but below Saibamen and Raditz who is rated at 5-B (66 Zettaons).
(DB Chapter 217) Chiaotzu's Self-Destruction did just superficial damage to Nappa, but this attack is implied to be more powerful than what Tien (who lost his arm almost immediately), and Krillin can do with their regular attacks. Chiaotzu Self-Destruction to save Tien, with the implication being Tien (who can take down the Saibamen easily) is not powerful enough to take on Nappa. So while his regular attacks only scale to above Raditz Saga Goku, his Self-Destruction should be scaled above the Saibamen.
Yajirobe
Saiyan Saga Yajirobe's current justification in his profile says that he should be superior pre-training Piccolo since he trained with all the other earthlings. This should put him at Low 5-B (22 Zettatons) instead of 5-C (this is probably just outdated scaling). His power level is 970. His current Katana scaling justification puts his Katana strikes above Piccolo, who is 5-B (443.11 Zettatons), not 5-C.
Revision Option A: Implement changes as described above.
Chiaotzu: Small Planet level (22.16 Zettatons), Planet level (66.46 Zettatons) with Self-Destruction
Yajirobe: Small Planet level (22.16 Zettatons), Planet level (443.11 Zettatons) with his katana.
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Revision Option B:
Given both Chiaotzu and Yajirobe's power level (610 and 970, respectively) far surpass Raditz Saga Goku's (at 416, per DB Manga Chapter 199), I believe Chiaotzu and Yajirobe's AP should be upscaled to baseline Low 5-B+
Chiaotzu: Small Planet level+ (29.94 Zettatons), Planet level (66.46 Zettatons) with Self-Destruction
Yajirobe: Small Planet level+ (29.94 Zettatons), Planet level (443.11 Zettatons) with his katana.
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Namek Arc
Krillin and Gohan (Frieza Fight)
This V-Jump scan says that during the fight with Frieza, Gohan's power level increased to 200000 (and rising) while Krillin's power level is at 75000. While this might contradict the manga given their fight with Guldo and Ginyu-Goku, on DB Chapter 295, Vegeta believes him, Gohan, and Krillin together can beat Frieza, and more importantly he says that Krillin and Gohan's power kept rising.
With a power level of 75000, Frieza Fight Krillin is close in power to Base Pre-Zenkai Goku's power level of 90000. Now 75000 isn't 90000, but it's close, so what I propose is to downscale this Krillin to baseline 5-A (3.8 Yottatons, compared to Goku at 4.43 Yottatons). Meanwhile Gohan can be scaled above Great Ape Saiyan Saga Vegeta's (180000 PL) 13.29 Yottatons.
Revision Option A: Implement these changes on the existing key.
Krillin (Potential Unlocked by Guru):
AP: Planet level (existing justification), up to Large Planet level (Vegeta notes that Krillin and Gohan's power continued to rise. He thinks that himself, Gohan, and Krillin working together can defeat Frieza. Eventually reached a power level of 75000 during his fight with Frieza, making him almost as powerful as Pre-Zenkai Goku [3.8 Yottatons]), Small Star level with Destructo Disc (existing justification)
Speed: FTL+ combat speed (existing justification), up to Massively FTL combat speed (With a power level of 75000, his combat speed should be close to that of Pre-Zenkai Base Goku. [100c])
Gohan (Potential Unlocked by Guru):
AP: Planet level (existing justification), up to Large Planet level (Vegeta notes that Krillin and Gohan's power continued to rise. He thinks that he, Gohan, and Krillin working together can defeat Frieza. Eventually reached a power level of 200000 during his fight with Frieza, making him more powerful than Great Ape Saiyan Saga Vegeta [13.29 Yottatons]), Small Star level when enraged (existing justification)
Speed: FTL+ combat speed (existing justification), up to Massively FTL combat speed (With a power level of 200000, his combat speed should be over twice that of Pre-Zenkai Kaio-ken x2 Goku. [216c]), Massively FTL+ when enraged (existing justification)
Revision Option B: Create new keys (Frieza Fight) and downgrade Potential Unlocked by Guru keys
Krillin (Potential Unlocked by Guru):
AP: Planet level (existing justification), Varies, up to far higher with Kamehameha, even higher with Destructo Disc (much stronger than before)
Krillin (Frieza Fight):
AP: Large Planet level (Vegeta notes that Krillin and Gohan's power continued to rise. He thinks that himself, Gohan, and Krillin working together can defeat Frieza. Eventually reached a power level of 75000 during his fight with Frieza, making him almost as powerful as Pre-Zenkai Goku [3.8 Yottatons]), Small Star level with Destructo Disc (existing justification)
Speed: Massively FTL combat speed (With a power level of 75000, his combat speed should be close to that of Pre-Zenkai Base Goku. [100c])
Gohan (Potential Unlocked by Guru):
AP: Planet level (existing justification), far higher when enraged.
Gohan (Frieza Fight):
AP: Large Planet level (Vegeta notes that Krillin and Gohan's power continued to rise. He thinks that he, Gohan, and Krillin working together can defeat Frieza. Eventually reached a power level of 200000 during his fight with Frieza, making him more powerful than Great Ape Saiyan Saga Vegeta [13.29 Yottatons]), Small Star level when enraged (existing justification)
Speed: Massively FTL combat speed (With a power level of 200000, his combat speed should be over that of Pre-Zenkai Kaio-ken x2 Goku. [216c]), Massively FTL+ when enraged (existing justification)
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Android/Cell Saga
All the Earthlings trained for 3 years in preparation for the Androids (except maybe Chiaotzu and Yajirobe). Notably, in Chapter 336 Piccolo says that the Z-Fighters shouldn't show up if they think they couldn't fight someone far more powerful than the enemies they have seen so far, this includes Mecha Frieza and King Cold. This warning is taken seriously, as Tien later (Chapter 337) chose to not bring Chiaotzu to fight the Androids, citing that he wouldn't be able to keep up with them. Now I don't believe that the Earthlings (sans Chiaotzu and Yajirobe) should scale to Mecha Frieza and King Cold, but given that they showed up to fight the Androids, they are confident that they can help in some way. I'll dive into Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha individually.
Krillin
With Guru's Potential Unlock and three years of extra training under his belt, Krillin should be incomparably stronger than he was on Namek. In DB, training becomes much more effective when they have a target to surpass, for them, this will be Frieza. During the Saiyan Saga, a year of training with Kami allowed the Earthlings to surpass Raditz, while Goku's training with Kami only made him one 1/3rd as strong as him. This is purely because they are aiming to surpass Raditz to face the even stronger Saiyans, and they did!
Now does this mean Krillin is stronger than Frieza? Likely no. We know for sure that he (along with Tien and Yamcha) are not stronger than the base Android Saga Saiyans, and they likely aren't on Frieza's level either. But given he shows up at all to fight the Androids, he must've had something that can allow him to stand up to beings much stronger than Frieza. The only techniques I can think of that can help are Solar Flare and Destructo Disc. By this point of the story, Destructo Disc's track record is perfect, always cutting those much stronger than the user, so I believe there's a possibility that Krillin's Destructo Disc can hurt Mecha Frieza, and that he likely trained for this.
Android Saga Krillin revision:
AP: At least Large Planet level, likely far higher (trained for 3 years in preparation to fight the Androids, should be far stronger than his Namek Arc self [3.8 Yottatons]), at least Small Star level, possibly Large Star level with Destructo Disc (Showed up to fight the Androids, despite Piccolo's warning that they shouldn't if they think they couldn't keep up with someone far stronger than anyone they have seen before during Mecha-Frieza's attack. This should mean that there's a possibility that his strongest attacks can damage someone at least as powerful as Mecha-Frieza. [29.64 Quettatons, possibly 2.96 KiloQuettatons])
Speed: At least Massively FTL, likely far higher (should be much faster than his Namek Arc Self [100c]]
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Tien
Tien trained at King Kai's planet for a longer time than Goku did during the Saiyan Saga, and he is stronger than Goku was when he started his own training. After that, he trained for an additional three years in preparation for the Androids, with Mecha-Frieza as his target to surpass. He then even showed up to fight the Androids despite Piccolo's warning. This should make him, at the absolute very least, stronger than Goku was after his training at King Kai's planet.
During the Cell Saga, Tien showcased his new technique, the Shin Kikoho. This technique is powerful enough to stun Semi-Perfect Cell, who can tank attacks from Android 16 completely unfazed. Does this mean Tien's Shin Kikoho scales above Android 16? No, he did little to no actual damage to Cell, just like Android 16. But this does mean that Tien listened to Piccolo's warning and prepared himself to help take down something far stronger than Mecha-Frieza. This should mean that his Shin Kikoho is possibly powerful enough to damage Mecha-Frieza, maybe someoone even stronger, and it would still be entirely consistent with him not damaging Semi-Perfect Cell, as there is an enormous difference in power between Mecha Frieza and Semi-Perfect Cell. (Mecha Frieza < Android 19/20 < Android 17/18 < Android 16/Imperfect Cell < Semi-Perfect Cell)
Android Saga Tien revision:
At least Planet level, likely far higher (trained at King Kai's planet for longer than Goku did, and then trained for 3 years in preparation to fight the Androids. Should be at least as strong as Goku after his training at King Kai's planet [443.11 Zettatons]), far higher, possibly Large Star level with Shin Kikoho (Showed up to fight the Androids, despite Piccolo's warning that they shouldn't if they think they couldn't keep up with someone far stronger than anyone they have seen before during Mecha-Frieza's attack. This should mean that there's a possibility that his strongest attacks can damage someone at least as powerful as Mecha-Frieza. Managed to pin Semi-Perfect Cell down by continuously using the attack, but this badly drained and nearly killed him [possibly 2.96 KiloQuettatons])
Speed: At least FTL+, likely far higher (should be much faster than Goku was after his training with King Kai)
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Yamcha
Like Tien, Yamcha also trained at King Kai's planet for longer than Goku did, with a higher power level than Goku had before he started his training. He then also trained for 3 years to prepare for the Androids, and showed up despite Piccolo's warning. This makes Yamcha at the absolute least, stronger than Goku was during the Saiyan Saga, and the fact that Dr. Gero mistook him for Goku supports this. He then also later stated that Yamcha will be a good source of power for himself and 19 [DB Chapter 338]. Dr. Gero would've also accounted for Goku's growth for the years between the Saiyan Saga and Android Saga. Unlike the other two however, Yamcha doesn't have a specific technique that scales far above himself.
Android Saga Yamcha revision:
AP: At least Planet level, likely far higher (trained at King Kai's planet for longer than Goku did, and then trained for 3 years in preparation to fight the Androids. Should be at least as strong as Goku after his training at King Kai's planet. Showed up to fight the Androids, despite Piccolo's warning that they shouldn't if they think they couldn't keep up with someone far stronger than anyone they have seen before during Mecha-Frieza's attack. His power grew enough that Dr. Gero and Android 19, who had knowledge of Goku's power during his battle with Vegeta, believed Yamcha to be Goku, and stated that he would be a good source of power. [443.11 Zettatons]).
Speed: At least FTL+, likely far higher (should be much faster than Goku was after his training with King Kai)
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
What do you guys think?
Saiyan Arc
Chiaotzu
His current 5-B AP justifications says he is superior to Yajirobe, Pre-training Goku, and Pre-training Piccolo, none of these characters are 5-B, the latter two in particular is just Low 5-B (22 Zettatons). His power level is 610, putting him above those characters but below Saibamen and Raditz who is rated at 5-B (66 Zettaons).
(DB Chapter 217) Chiaotzu's Self-Destruction did just superficial damage to Nappa, but this attack is implied to be more powerful than what Tien (who lost his arm almost immediately), and Krillin can do with their regular attacks. Chiaotzu Self-Destruction to save Tien, with the implication being Tien (who can take down the Saibamen easily) is not powerful enough to take on Nappa. So while his regular attacks only scale to above Raditz Saga Goku, his Self-Destruction should be scaled above the Saibamen.
Yajirobe
Saiyan Saga Yajirobe's current justification in his profile says that he should be superior pre-training Piccolo since he trained with all the other earthlings. This should put him at Low 5-B (22 Zettatons) instead of 5-C (this is probably just outdated scaling). His power level is 970. His current Katana scaling justification puts his Katana strikes above Piccolo, who is 5-B (443.11 Zettatons), not 5-C.
Revision Option A: Implement changes as described above.
Chiaotzu: Small Planet level (22.16 Zettatons), Planet level (66.46 Zettatons) with Self-Destruction
Yajirobe: Small Planet level (22.16 Zettatons), Planet level (443.11 Zettatons) with his katana.
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Revision Option B:
Given both Chiaotzu and Yajirobe's power level (610 and 970, respectively) far surpass Raditz Saga Goku's (at 416, per DB Manga Chapter 199), I believe Chiaotzu and Yajirobe's AP should be upscaled to baseline Low 5-B+
Chiaotzu: Small Planet level+ (29.94 Zettatons), Planet level (66.46 Zettatons) with Self-Destruction
Yajirobe: Small Planet level+ (29.94 Zettatons), Planet level (443.11 Zettatons) with his katana.
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Namek Arc
Krillin and Gohan (Frieza Fight)
This V-Jump scan says that during the fight with Frieza, Gohan's power level increased to 200000 (and rising) while Krillin's power level is at 75000. While this might contradict the manga given their fight with Guldo and Ginyu-Goku, on DB Chapter 295, Vegeta believes him, Gohan, and Krillin together can beat Frieza, and more importantly he says that Krillin and Gohan's power kept rising.
With a power level of 75000, Frieza Fight Krillin is close in power to Base Pre-Zenkai Goku's power level of 90000. Now 75000 isn't 90000, but it's close, so what I propose is to downscale this Krillin to baseline 5-A (3.8 Yottatons, compared to Goku at 4.43 Yottatons). Meanwhile Gohan can be scaled above Great Ape Saiyan Saga Vegeta's (180000 PL) 13.29 Yottatons.
Revision Option A: Implement these changes on the existing key.
Krillin (Potential Unlocked by Guru):
AP: Planet level (existing justification), up to Large Planet level (Vegeta notes that Krillin and Gohan's power continued to rise. He thinks that himself, Gohan, and Krillin working together can defeat Frieza. Eventually reached a power level of 75000 during his fight with Frieza, making him almost as powerful as Pre-Zenkai Goku [3.8 Yottatons]), Small Star level with Destructo Disc (existing justification)
Speed: FTL+ combat speed (existing justification), up to Massively FTL combat speed (With a power level of 75000, his combat speed should be close to that of Pre-Zenkai Base Goku. [100c])
Gohan (Potential Unlocked by Guru):
AP: Planet level (existing justification), up to Large Planet level (Vegeta notes that Krillin and Gohan's power continued to rise. He thinks that he, Gohan, and Krillin working together can defeat Frieza. Eventually reached a power level of 200000 during his fight with Frieza, making him more powerful than Great Ape Saiyan Saga Vegeta [13.29 Yottatons]), Small Star level when enraged (existing justification)
Speed: FTL+ combat speed (existing justification), up to Massively FTL combat speed (With a power level of 200000, his combat speed should be over twice that of Pre-Zenkai Kaio-ken x2 Goku. [216c]), Massively FTL+ when enraged (existing justification)
Revision Option B: Create new keys (Frieza Fight) and downgrade Potential Unlocked by Guru keys
Krillin (Potential Unlocked by Guru):
AP: Planet level (existing justification), Varies, up to far higher with Kamehameha, even higher with Destructo Disc (much stronger than before)
Krillin (Frieza Fight):
AP: Large Planet level (Vegeta notes that Krillin and Gohan's power continued to rise. He thinks that himself, Gohan, and Krillin working together can defeat Frieza. Eventually reached a power level of 75000 during his fight with Frieza, making him almost as powerful as Pre-Zenkai Goku [3.8 Yottatons]), Small Star level with Destructo Disc (existing justification)
Speed: Massively FTL combat speed (With a power level of 75000, his combat speed should be close to that of Pre-Zenkai Base Goku. [100c])
Gohan (Potential Unlocked by Guru):
AP: Planet level (existing justification), far higher when enraged.
Gohan (Frieza Fight):
AP: Large Planet level (Vegeta notes that Krillin and Gohan's power continued to rise. He thinks that he, Gohan, and Krillin working together can defeat Frieza. Eventually reached a power level of 200000 during his fight with Frieza, making him more powerful than Great Ape Saiyan Saga Vegeta [13.29 Yottatons]), Small Star level when enraged (existing justification)
Speed: Massively FTL combat speed (With a power level of 200000, his combat speed should be over that of Pre-Zenkai Kaio-ken x2 Goku. [216c]), Massively FTL+ when enraged (existing justification)
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Android/Cell Saga
All the Earthlings trained for 3 years in preparation for the Androids (except maybe Chiaotzu and Yajirobe). Notably, in Chapter 336 Piccolo says that the Z-Fighters shouldn't show up if they think they couldn't fight someone far more powerful than the enemies they have seen so far, this includes Mecha Frieza and King Cold. This warning is taken seriously, as Tien later (Chapter 337) chose to not bring Chiaotzu to fight the Androids, citing that he wouldn't be able to keep up with them. Now I don't believe that the Earthlings (sans Chiaotzu and Yajirobe) should scale to Mecha Frieza and King Cold, but given that they showed up to fight the Androids, they are confident that they can help in some way. I'll dive into Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha individually.
Krillin
With Guru's Potential Unlock and three years of extra training under his belt, Krillin should be incomparably stronger than he was on Namek. In DB, training becomes much more effective when they have a target to surpass, for them, this will be Frieza. During the Saiyan Saga, a year of training with Kami allowed the Earthlings to surpass Raditz, while Goku's training with Kami only made him one 1/3rd as strong as him. This is purely because they are aiming to surpass Raditz to face the even stronger Saiyans, and they did!
Now does this mean Krillin is stronger than Frieza? Likely no. We know for sure that he (along with Tien and Yamcha) are not stronger than the base Android Saga Saiyans, and they likely aren't on Frieza's level either. But given he shows up at all to fight the Androids, he must've had something that can allow him to stand up to beings much stronger than Frieza. The only techniques I can think of that can help are Solar Flare and Destructo Disc. By this point of the story, Destructo Disc's track record is perfect, always cutting those much stronger than the user, so I believe there's a possibility that Krillin's Destructo Disc can hurt Mecha Frieza, and that he likely trained for this.
Android Saga Krillin revision:
AP: At least Large Planet level, likely far higher (trained for 3 years in preparation to fight the Androids, should be far stronger than his Namek Arc self [3.8 Yottatons]), at least Small Star level, possibly Large Star level with Destructo Disc (Showed up to fight the Androids, despite Piccolo's warning that they shouldn't if they think they couldn't keep up with someone far stronger than anyone they have seen before during Mecha-Frieza's attack. This should mean that there's a possibility that his strongest attacks can damage someone at least as powerful as Mecha-Frieza. [29.64 Quettatons, possibly 2.96 KiloQuettatons])
Speed: At least Massively FTL, likely far higher (should be much faster than his Namek Arc Self [100c]]
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Tien
Tien trained at King Kai's planet for a longer time than Goku did during the Saiyan Saga, and he is stronger than Goku was when he started his own training. After that, he trained for an additional three years in preparation for the Androids, with Mecha-Frieza as his target to surpass. He then even showed up to fight the Androids despite Piccolo's warning. This should make him, at the absolute very least, stronger than Goku was after his training at King Kai's planet.
During the Cell Saga, Tien showcased his new technique, the Shin Kikoho. This technique is powerful enough to stun Semi-Perfect Cell, who can tank attacks from Android 16 completely unfazed. Does this mean Tien's Shin Kikoho scales above Android 16? No, he did little to no actual damage to Cell, just like Android 16. But this does mean that Tien listened to Piccolo's warning and prepared himself to help take down something far stronger than Mecha-Frieza. This should mean that his Shin Kikoho is possibly powerful enough to damage Mecha-Frieza, maybe someoone even stronger, and it would still be entirely consistent with him not damaging Semi-Perfect Cell, as there is an enormous difference in power between Mecha Frieza and Semi-Perfect Cell. (Mecha Frieza < Android 19/20 < Android 17/18 < Android 16/Imperfect Cell < Semi-Perfect Cell)
Android Saga Tien revision:
At least Planet level, likely far higher (trained at King Kai's planet for longer than Goku did, and then trained for 3 years in preparation to fight the Androids. Should be at least as strong as Goku after his training at King Kai's planet [443.11 Zettatons]), far higher, possibly Large Star level with Shin Kikoho (Showed up to fight the Androids, despite Piccolo's warning that they shouldn't if they think they couldn't keep up with someone far stronger than anyone they have seen before during Mecha-Frieza's attack. This should mean that there's a possibility that his strongest attacks can damage someone at least as powerful as Mecha-Frieza. Managed to pin Semi-Perfect Cell down by continuously using the attack, but this badly drained and nearly killed him [possibly 2.96 KiloQuettatons])
Speed: At least FTL+, likely far higher (should be much faster than Goku was after his training with King Kai)
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Yamcha
Like Tien, Yamcha also trained at King Kai's planet for longer than Goku did, with a higher power level than Goku had before he started his training. He then also trained for 3 years to prepare for the Androids, and showed up despite Piccolo's warning. This makes Yamcha at the absolute least, stronger than Goku was during the Saiyan Saga, and the fact that Dr. Gero mistook him for Goku supports this. He then also later stated that Yamcha will be a good source of power for himself and 19 [DB Chapter 338]. Dr. Gero would've also accounted for Goku's growth for the years between the Saiyan Saga and Android Saga. Unlike the other two however, Yamcha doesn't have a specific technique that scales far above himself.
Android Saga Yamcha revision:
AP: At least Planet level, likely far higher (trained at King Kai's planet for longer than Goku did, and then trained for 3 years in preparation to fight the Androids. Should be at least as strong as Goku after his training at King Kai's planet. Showed up to fight the Androids, despite Piccolo's warning that they shouldn't if they think they couldn't keep up with someone far stronger than anyone they have seen before during Mecha-Frieza's attack. His power grew enough that Dr. Gero and Android 19, who had knowledge of Goku's power during his battle with Vegeta, believed Yamcha to be Goku, and stated that he would be a good source of power. [443.11 Zettatons]).
Speed: At least FTL+, likely far higher (should be much faster than Goku was after his training with King Kai)
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
What do you guys think?
Last edited:
