Dragon Ball Super: Universes/Timeline Tiering Revision

[Reiner04]

All of Universe 7.

Good my waifu. Keep up the good work.

 

[RedReaper616]

All of Universe 7.

This doesn’t mean much of anything, because later in the same arc who the Oracle Fish referred to isn’t made clear, and is implied not to be Gas or Granolah based on the fact he didn’t recognize them, which is noted by Whis.

It could have meant Granolah, (not likely), Gas (not likely), Frieza (more likely), or Gohan (more likely). And all of it is conjecture.

 

[RedReaper616]

And still staying weaker than someone in the universe like frieza?


If you're using it eliminate Otherworld or anything in the U7 then keep in mind, the strongest God resides in the living universe, and alot of life forms that aren't God's resides in other world, so that means the wish is not fulfilled and the reasoning behind eliminating Otherworld because it contains gods then you're also specifying the livin'world should be eliminated as well, as it contains the strongest God.


They're in the universe, if you're saying that RoSaT was part of the universe in anyway then that indicates that frieza should have been counted as the part of the universe as well.

Aside from all this, the term "universe" has been long stopped referring to just livin' universe ever since 12 universes has been introduced, that's quite actually more of quoting things out from the lore. Living universe belongs to Z, Kai, Universe 7 belongs to super.

True, Beerus does reside in the Mortal Universe, so you can take the statement as you will, but I think it should definitely be noted nonetheless.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Alternate time flow doesn't make something a disconnected space-time continuum anymore.

Just out of curiosity, what was the reasoning for this to not be accepted anymore? And what will be acceptable as different space-times?

 

[Reiner04]

This doesn’t mean much of anything, because later in the same arc who the Oracle Fish referred to isn’t made clear, and is implied not to be Gas or Granolah based on the fact he didn’t recognize them, which is noted by Whis.

It could have meant Granolah, (not likely), Gas (not likely), Frieza (more likely), or Gohan (more likely). And all of it is conjecture.

But the fact that universe is referring to universe 7 is quite clear as it is in the arc.

 

[Reiner04]

Just out of curiosity, what was the reasoning for this to not be accepted anymore? And what will be acceptable as different space-times?

Check the Tier 2 revision part 2 and don't worry, ben 10 is not affected.

 

[RedReaper616]

But the fact that universe is referring to universe 7 is quite clear as it is in the arc.

No? The scenarios/conversations are completely separate. One refers a prior statement made and uses that statement to dictate parameters. The other is a prophecy that is purposely left ambiguous, because the shifting of power isn’t clarified. This also isn’t mentioning the fact that if Frieza is revealed to be the person of interest, this “shifting of balance in U7” would have occurred in the RoSaT, which would still lead credence to the fact it is a mere Subspace/Dimension of U7.

 

[Aachintya31]

This doesn’t mean much of anything, because later in the same arc who the Oracle Fish referred to isn’t made clear, and is implied not to be Gas or Granolah based on the fact he didn’t recognize them, which is noted by Whis.

It could have meant Granolah, (not likely), Gas (not likely), Frieza (more likely), or Gohan (more likely). And all of it is conjecture.

Oracle Fish's prophecies were always hard to decipher ever since Beerus saga. By the context of the scene it definitely referred to granolah.

Check the Tier 2 revision part 2 and don't worry, ben 10 is not affected.

 

[Planck69]

Just out of curiosity, what was the reasoning for this to not be accepted anymore? And what will be acceptable as different space-times?

That places even in the real world can have distorted time flows. Personally, I think that is very stupid since most of the time gravity distortion never happens in fiction but it seems to have been passed so eh.

What's accepted is if the space-times/dimensions are spatially separate on top of not following the same time as each other and being unaffected by changes in time in either one. Additionally, physical travel should be impossible between them.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Frieza (more likely)

yes?

 

[Reiner04]

Oracle Fish's prophecies were always hard to decipher ever since Beerus saga. By the context of the scene it definitely referred to granolah.

Yeah, the point is that shifting of power balance occurs on the range upto U7 and that was the entire context of wish of arc and all, it is left ambiguous because when that shift will actually end was ambiguous as in the end of arc, it was still unknown who is that strongest guy and to whom oracle fish was referring but it could be anyone is what matters, either frieza when he'll reach the universe 7 once again, could have been granolah after the wish or could have been gas if he has been the last person but who actually that person is, is still unknown, the point was that, the power balance is shifting.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

This also isn’t mentioning the fact that if Frieza is revealed to be the person of interest, this “shifting of balance in U7” would have occurred in the RoSaT, which would still lead credence to the fact it is a mere Subspace/Dimension of U7.

Frieza emerging from the Room of Spirit and Time is what shifted the balance of the universe.

 

[Aachintya31]

yes?

Man, the amount of secondary and tertiary canon info you have is tremendous

 

[RedReaper616]

Frieza emerging from the Room of Spirit and Time is what shifted the balance of the universe.

No. That panel happens before GRANOLAH made the Wish. We have NO IDEA who it was that shifted the balance. It also would make no sense, because Frieza would’ve left the RoSaT prior to the Wish being made. The wishes happened whilst he was IN the RoSaT, so it’s physically not possible.

 

[RedReaper616]

yes?

The final panels of the arc is literally them talking about who the strongest the Oracle Fish was referring to really was, and Whis saying HE thinks the strongest has yet to appear. (And then, coincidentally, right after then Gohan unlocks a new form and is called “the strongest” in all promos, chronologically after Black Frieza appeared, making HIM the “current strongest.”)

 

[Aachintya31]

we need to also account the lore and context. Everything onscreen isn't always necessary.

 

[Reiner04]

No. That panel happens before GRANOLAH made the Wish. We have NO IDEA who it was that shifted the balance. It also would make no sense, because Frieza would’ve left the RoSaT prior to the Wish being made. The wishes happened whilst he was IN the RoSaT, so it’s physically not possible.

In the end, Goku and whis made it clear that oracle fish could have been referring to frieza or maybe someone else. The context is quite U7, living universe has no place here or base to argue tbh.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

No. That panel happens before GRANOLAH made the Wish.

A prophecy of the future.

(And then, coincidentally, right after then Gohan unlocks a new form and is called “the strongest” in all promos, chronologically after Black Frieza appeared, making HIM the “current strongest.”)

yawn, anime continuity.

 

[RedReaper616]

A prophecy of the future.

Yes…so the statement’s context is not clearly about Frieza, because it’s purposely left ambiguous.

yawn, anime continuity.

Superhero occurs Post-Granolah in the Manga. As we are currently witnessing right now with the Superhero Prequel Arc.

 

[Aachintya31]

The final panels of the arc is literally them talking about who the strongest the Oracle Fish was referring to really was, and Whis saying HE thinks the strongest has yet to appear. (And then, coincidentally, right after then Gohan unlocks a new form and is called “the strongest” in all promos, chronologically after Black Frieza appeared, making HIM the “current strongest.”)

Wishes from dragon balls causes imbalance in the universe.

 

[Reiner04]

Okay then, i guess what universe stands here for and was since start is quite clear.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That places even in the real world can have distorted time flows. Personally, I think that is very stupid since most of the time gravity distortion never happens in fiction but it seems to have been passed so eh.

What's accepted is if the space-times/dimensions are spatially separate on top of not following the same time as each other and being unaffected by changes in time in either one.

Ah okay so basically, different time flows can be accepted as long as it’s not the only sole reason used to argue separate space-times?

Additionally, physical travel should be impossible between them.

This point however I’m not really understanding. Wouldn’t this just be infinite / immeasurable speed?

 

[RedReaper616]

Wishes from dragon balls causes imbalance in the universe.

Then I suppose it’s Piccolo who’s being referred to here? Because he got his strength from the Dragon Balls of Earth, and is stated to be on par with Goku and Vegeta, who are training after the incident with Granolah. Orange Piccolo himself tanking dozens of punches from a “Goku and Vegeta level threat” in the form of the Gammas, and fighting comparably to them with merely his Ultimate/Awakened State.

So it still doesn’t mean Granolah. It also still doesn’t mean Granolah because Gas makes his own Wish shortly after.

And regardless, the imbalance isn’t stated to be caused by the Wish. It’s referring to the SITU.

 

[Reiner04]

Ah okay so basically, different time flows can be accepted as long as it’s not the only sole reason used to argue separate space-times?


This point however I’m not really understanding. Wouldn’t this just be infinite / immeasurable speed?

Kukui, it's fine if you want to ask but.. PM him or his message wall... or Perhaps in the tier 2 revision part 2?!

 

[Aachintya31]

Then I suppose it’s Piccolo who’s being referred to here?

No, Gohan is stated to be stronger.

And regardless, the imbalance isn’t stated to be caused by the Wish. It’s referring to the SITU.

Its ambigious, although Existence of a SITU shouldn't really cause an imbalance unless its done by unnatural way.

 

[Omegabronic]

The RoSaT Subspace scan should have ended this a while ago. It specifically is noted to be a Subspace of the Universe. Mind you, to reaffirm something, I went and checked the actual Wish Granolah made, because something seemed off about the thread.

And the Eternal Dragon states that the wording of Granolah’s Wish means he didn’t include the Kai’s/Otherworld. “The Gods.”

Meaning that, yes, the interpretation that “the Universe” only meant the MORTAL UNIVERSE is actually correct here.

Thus Subspaces would logically be ignored, as they are alternate dimensions.

Edit: Also, travel between Universes is impossible for Mortals. This is why Hit desired the Cube, as it would grant him access to Multiversal Travel.

the said guide was saying that the subspace was inside the living universe, as that is what it is explaining in that part of the guide, so it contradicts the series since we know that the rosat is not considered part of the universe, whether it is talking about the living universe or the macrocosm in dbs doesn't matter, since the information of the guide is contradcted either way

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

the said guide was saying that the subspace was inside the living universe, as that is what it is explaining in that part of the guide, so it contradicts the series since we know that the rosat is not considered part of the universe, whether it is talking about the living universe or the macrocosm in dbs doesn't matter, since the information of the guide is contradcted either way

I would love for you to bring proof that another is part of the living universe, and not your zucchinis, it just talks and does not bring any proof, where is this contradiction?

 

[Omegabronic]

I would love for you to bring proof that another is part of the living universe, and not your zucchinis, it just talks and does not bring any proof, where is this contradiction?

the part that talks about subspace is literally in the section explaining the notable areas of the Earth/Living universe, go see the guide again if you want

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

the part that talks about subspace is literally in the section explaining the notable areas of the Earth/Living universe, go see the guide again if you want

shows, a scan is worth a thousand words.

 

[Reiner04]

Either way @Nullflowerblush ended any argument or debate possible over RoSaT existing inside or outside U7, we can move on with agree to disagree, it ain't changing anything of previous thread.

 

[Omegabronic]

shows, a scan is worth a thousand words.

it is in the "the universe" section, this guide is talking and explaining the section of the macrocosm, with this one being about the universe/living universe

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

it is in the "the universe" section, this guide is talking and explaining the section of the macrocosm, with this one being about the universe/living universe

About that, it's actually on Earth, the entrance is on Earth, so if you destroy the door, there's no way you can access that location, it's still connected to Earth, whenever there's a door in the rooms of the time, they are connected to the planet


This speech by Freeza also places the room of time on a planet, but where it is outside Universe 7, but it is still connected with Universe 7, through a planet, outside also that if you destroy it it doesn't go to another dimension or go to limbo, you go back to the entry's origin location

there was no contradiction by the guide, in fact it is your interpretation that is bad


Exactly here, it is saying that it is on earth, that is why the entrance is on earth, but the entrance of the dimension leads to a different space-time

"the Room of Spirit and Time, which in D7 was classified as located in Area B-1 on Earth, has been reclassified as being a subspace."

 

[Omegabronic]

About that, it's actually on Earth, the entrance is on Earth, so if you destroy the door, there's no way you can access that location, it's still connected to Earth, whenever there's a door in the rooms of the time, they are connected to the planet

so it is talking about an access point and not the location of the dimension, therefore it does not prove that the rosat is inside the macrocosm

This speech by Freeza also places the room of time on a planet, but where it is outside Universe 7, but it is still connected with Universe 7, through a planet, outside also that if you destroy it it doesn't go to another dimension or go to limbo, you go back to the entry's origin location

by a portal, if you destroy said portal there is no way to go back, you all but confirmed my point

there was no contradiction by the guide, in fact it is your interpretation that is bad

explain why it is bad interpretation

Exactly here, it is saying that it is on earth, that is why the entrance is on earth, but the entrance of the dimension leads to a different space-time

"the Room of Spirit and Time, which in D7 was classified as located in Area B-1 on Earth, has been reclassified as being a subspace."

again, if it is on Earth it would be inside the living universe and as such would be part of it, which contradicts the manga that says how it isn't part of the universe

you confirmed my point, thank you

 

[PrinceofPein]

I tried reading through the thread and all I got is that, there are a lot of contradictory feats in DB.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Either way @Nullflowerblush ended any argument or debate possible over RoSaT existing inside or outside U7, we can move on with agree to disagree, it ain't changing anything of previous thread.

i still keep disagree.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

it is in the "the universe" section, this guide is talking and explaining the section of the macrocosm, with this one being about the universe/living universe

So it mentions that the RoSaT is on earth and then it says C4 adds a new area subspace which is basically a different dimensional space where time and space work differently then the dimensional space around it

So it calls the actual RoSaT a subspace and explains how the subspace works so no it’s not talking about the entrance

 

[Omegabronic]

So it mentions that the RoSaT is on earth and then it says C4 adds a new area subspace which is basically a different dimensional space where time and space work differently then the dimensional space around it

So it calls the actual RoSaT a subspace and explains how the subspace works so no it’s not talking about the entrance

well the other possibility, being a contradiction to the manga, it is then

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

well the other possibility, being a contradiction to the manga, it is then

That explanation would make more sense but then it wouldn’t be useable for the anime

 

[Omegabronic]

That explanation would make more sense but then it wouldn’t be useable for the anime

yes it would, super manga is canon to the z manga, which is canon to dbs, whatever information we get from either is applicable since it would be applicable to the z manga

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

yes it would, super manga is canon to the z manga, which is canon to dbs, whatever information we get from either is applicable since it would be applicable to the z manga

What? Thats not how it works you can’t backscale like that an example would be the statement of ssj4 Gogeta being as strong as Vegito ssj but gt isn’t able to be used for the z anime but z anime is able to be used for gt plus the manga and anime are 2 different continuities like for example in the anime goku Has ssjb kaioken and in the manga he doesn’t