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Dragon Ball Super Tier 2 Debunk

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Well, isn't this lovely? Alright, let's see here....

1. "Being physically away from each other doesn't prove that they are in separate space-times. You can have multiple universal spaces in a single space-time continuum. "

Correct.

1.1 "Additionally, the argument that they can't be reached through simple flight wouldn't matter if the universes have spatial boundaries, as they can have those but still share a space-time continuum. "

And with this as well, I agree.

2. "When new timelines are created splitting off from the original one, it creates a new copy of all 12 universes, not just for instance Universe 7."

The current model is treated as an entire timeline encompassing all 12 Universe, each Universe containing its own Space-Time Continumm. So this point of yours is completely and utterly irrelevant, as what was demonstrated can happen under both models.

2.1 "If the universes were in separate space-times, a new timeline should not contain the other 11 universes, just the universe that the timeline was originally a part of. "

And why can it not? If I'm affecting the entirety of existence of say, this whole timeline containing portions of their own separate space-time continumms, then why should we expect creating a whole separate timeline to just affect ONE of these separate space-time continumms? It's ridiculous to say it wouldn't.

3. "First, I will say this, Infinite Zamasu is not Low 2-C. He is 3-A. He's only mentioned to be becoming one with Universe 7. The English dub mentions him becoming one with the fabric of the cosmos, but the original Japanese version obviously takes precedence where this is never stated."

That's a bold claim you have there. "He's becoming one with the Universe" Apparently we should just treat this as him becoming just one with the matter of the Universe? In conjunction with the fact that he's affecting different time-lines from his very own existence... It's obvious to me that you're just downplaying this feat to say he's not affecting space-time.

3.1 "Now yes, Zamasu does leak into the present, but that doesn't mean he is merging with space-time, this is simply range/dimensional travel."

So let me get this straight: You honestly believe he's not merging with space-time, but no, this is just dimensional travel? Occam's Razor clearly says the easiest option is to say he's affecting Space-Time of the Universe, to make his presence bend into a different Time-line.

4. "However, now that I explained why Infinite Zamasu isn't Low 2-C, we have no reason to assume that Zeno destroyed time. Not only that, but Whis appears to be knowledgeable on Zeno, so he would likely be aware if Zeno had the ability to erase time. Whis bringing up the possibility of Trunks being able to return to his world would only imply that just the physical universes were destroyed with the timeline still being there. "

You failed to explain why Infinite Zamasu isn't Low 2-C, and before I respond to the rest, you need to actually demonstrate why I should choose what you're saying over the most conservative approach being Zamasu is Low 2-C.

Conclusion: "Simple. Every Dragon Ball character rated as Low 2-C or 2-C gets downgraded to 3-A. The way Dragon Ball's cosmology is shown to work demonstrates each timeline being a quilted multiverse, so there are no tier 2 feats in the series. "

The model can easily be explained as what was shown, as could yours. However, our default position should be that the Universe are treated with different Space-Times, unless we have very good reason to think otherwise, but I didn't find yours very convincing at all.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
"DBS is only 3-A you wankers"
Yeah, we are NOT doing this again. The Universes in DBS have 3 universal bodies that form the U7 Macrocosm and this has been simply put to the side because of ignorance and an appeal to tradition.

First of all, filler or not, Buuhan is able to affect the very fabric of the mortal universe and break the walls between dimensions. These dimensional wall are what separate the Afterlife, Kai realm and Mortal Universe. They're evidently 4D barriers because these same walls separate the Mortal universe from the ROSAT. Dende and Vegito even go as far as to call them Alternate Dimensions. Vice Shout specifically affect space time, so if it isn't blatant enough, space and time runs through the different realms.

This feat happens in DBZ and DBZ Kai, which would also relate closer the the anime version of DBS. In DBZ Kai they show said Macrocosm and how they're separated. And what do you know its same exact structure also appears in the freaking manga. And it was even drawn by Toriyama.

Here it says that the Mortal Universe is based off our universe or universes in Sci-fi, implying that it's its own 4D space. Now if you look at the map, the Sacred Realm of the Kai is literally located outside of the universe and even looks like it's separated by its own 4D bubble.

As for traveling to them, the only ways to do so is by Warp, Kai Kai, and Instant Transmission. These are the only techniques that can take you to these realms and they're all dimension travel abilities, just look at the abilities of Goku, Shi, and Whis. Speaking of Whis, the only way to travel to other numbered universes is by Whis' staff. That same ability is needed for traveling to the Afterlife and so on.

There's far too much evidence to think everything is just 3-A. Ignorance incarnate amirite.

Two more things, the reason Goku and Trunks were able to travel to the void is because Zeno destroyed everything in the timeline, not the timeline itself. And the whole statement the the Buuhan thing is filler is irrelevant. Why the hell would the universe's structure be different in DBS when we treat it the same for DBZ (anime and manga), DBZ Kai, DBS (anime and manga) DBGT, Xenoverse, and Heroes? It's drawn by Toriyama and literally and that's what's they're intended to be

But of course what I say is gonna get brushed off because I'm a wanker. This should be abruptly closed like the past upgrade threads because quite frankly DBS is going no where in terms of scaling.
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Zamasu, this place is free is it not? So, why can't we debate these things from time to time?

Why doesn't it matter if the Buuhan feat is filler or not? We don't use feats from filler here do we? Is that even consistent with Dragon Ball Super? I think not.Okay, the dimensional walls are what separate the Afterlife, Kai Realm, and Mortal Universe. However, how are they 4D for separating the Mortal Universe from the ROSAT? Vice Shout was only able to open dimensional portals, Buuhan was going to cause those dimensional walls to collapse but nothing specifies how big those things are. Vegito and Dende can't be used a source, neither of them are as knowledgeable as Whis is when it comes to how the Universe works.

I agree that the Mortal Universe is as large as ours. However, we have no idea how big these "alternate dimensions" are lol. "Now if you look at the map, the Sacred Realm of the Kai is literally located outside of the universe and even looks like it's separated by its own 4D bubble."

This is headcanon. Provide some evidence for this, are you implying that the Sacred Realm of the Kai is universe sized? It's separated by it's own 4D bubble that's about a 10th the size of the macrocosm. The Kaioshin Realm literally includes numerous stars and the giant Kaioshin planet.

Why is travelling to these realms relevant to your point though? Of course that's the only way you can travel to them. They are otherworldly dimensions for a reason. Not sure how this relates to Dragon Ball being 2-C.

"Zeno destroyed everything in the timeline, not the timeline itself" Alright, so you admit that Zeno is not 2-C. In order to be 2-C, you have to bust the space/time continuum or an entire timeline. Zeno only nuked everything within it, not the timeline itself. That's why ShadowWarrior wants to downgrade them to 3-A. Also, I don't think Toriyama agrees with your sentiments either.

You can relax with the hostility. What we want is a debate, we're not attacking you.
 
So has this topic been concluded one more time or we still gonna beat the dead horse a little more?
 
The current model is treated as an entire timeline encompassing all 12 Universe, each Universe containing its own Space-Time Continumm. So this point of yours is completely and utterly irrelevant, as what was demonstrated can happen under both models.

This is basically just saying "the universes are separate space-times because they are." Each universe has their own dimensional walls but that doesn't make them individual space-time continuums.


And why can it not? If I'm affecting the entirety of existence of say, this whole timeline containing portions of their own separate space-time continumms, then why should we expect creating a whole separate timeline to just affect ONE of these separate space-time continumms? It's ridiculous to say it wouldn't.

Because the 12 universes sharing a timeline would show that they aren't separate space-times as time travel affects all of them. The notion of them being separate space-times yet they share a timeline is contradictory.


That's a bold claim you have there. "He's becoming one with the Universe" Apparently we should just treat this as him becoming just one with the matter of the Universe? In conjunction with the fact that he's affecting different time-lines from his very own existence... It's obvious to me that you're just downplaying this feat to say he's not affecting space-time.

Yes, he was only stated to become one with Universe 7, not the entire timeline.


So let me get this straight: You honestly believe he's not merging with space-time, but no, this is just dimensional travel? Occam's Razor clearly says the easiest option is to say he's affecting Space-Time of the Universe, to make his presence bend into a different Time-line.

You're not using Occam's Razor correctly, because the statement only says he became one with Universe 7. it takes extra assumptions to assume that he merged with the space-time when the argument to begin with is that all the universes are in the same space-time.


You failed to explain why Infinite Zamasu isn't Low 2-C, and before I respond to the rest, you need to actually demonstrate why I should choose what you're saying over the most conservative approach being Zamasu is Low 2-C.

The model can easily be explained as what was shown, as could yours. However, our default position should be that the Universe are treated with different Space-Times, unless we have very good reason to think otherwise, but I didn't find yours very convincing at all.

Yeah, our default is that universes have separate space-times, but in this case there is context pointing to the contrary, that Dragon Ball's multiverse is a quilted one.
 
Im only going to get involved to point out one thing.

Giygas3 said:
2.1 "If the universes were in separate space-times, a new timeline should not contain the other 11 universes, just the universe that the timeline was originally a part of. "

And why can it not? If I'm affecting the entirety of existence of say, this whole timeline containing portions of their own separate space-time continumms, then why should we expect creating a whole separate timeline to just affect ONE of these separate space-time continumms? It's ridiculous to say it wouldn't.
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I think what Shadow's point here was that the timelines in DBS shouldn't include other universes but just the universe that the timeline originally originates from. Like for his example, a new timeline of universe 7 shouldnt have any other universe but Universe 7 in it.

While im not taking a side, I do agree that he has a point here. I have never heard of timeline models having anything beyond a single universal space-time continuum before.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Everyone please drop the hostility. Talking to both sides. Anyway, I still with AKM Sama that this is a repeatedly over done topic. And yes, the afterlifes are indeed contained in the same timeline as the living universes, but the Hyperbolic Time Chamber indeed has its own Space-Time.
And Zamasu was easily stated to be merging with "The World". The World generally refers to the 12 Universes as well as the Space-Time containing all of them. Yes, it is complicated, but a single Timeline containing the 12 Universes would be a 2-C feat; given there's at least one other sub timeline within it. Zamasu whether or not he merged with any universes beyond 7 was legit merging with Space-Time. Either Universe 7 does have its own timeline, which would still make merging with it Low 2-C. Or he also merged with the Timeline as a whole. It can't really go both ways.

The Tier 2 characters are remaining either way.
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Ummmm, DDM. I have to interject here, but Zamasu was merging with Universe 7. Not "The World". His power was seeping into the present timeline, which would indicate what ShadowWarrior said above which would be range or dimensional travel. He didn't merge with the space/time continuum yet and like we said previously, Zeno only busted the stuff within the timeline not the timeline itself since Trunks could still travel back to that time period as stated by Whis.
 
@Shadow "This is basically just saying "the universes are separate space-times because they are." Each universe has their own dimensional walls but that doesn't make them individual space-time continuums. "

Then you completely missed my point. You brought up, "When new timelines are created splitting off from the original one, it creates a new copy of all 12 universes, not just for instance Universe 7" And I'm explaining why the current model that we're using is perfectly compatible with what was shown.

"Because the 12 universes sharing a timeline would show that they aren't separate space-times as time travel affects all of them. The notion of them being separate space-times yet they share a timeline is contradictory."

So according to you, you can't have a space-time continumm being encompassed by an even larger one? Where the larger one affects the entirety, whilst the smaller one doesn't affect the larger one? This is not contradictory in the least.

Let's do a little thought experiment, shall we? Let's say we have Universe 1, and Universe 2. Universe 2 is far larger in size than Universe 1, whilst Universe 1 is encompassed by it as well. Let's represent the entirety of this existence by a Timeline. If I go into another timeline, we will certainly have a duplicate of both Universes, however, each Universe still has their own separate Space-Time within the Time-line. You can see why your point is moot by this.

"Yes, he was only stated to become one with Universe 7, not the entire timeline. "

Universe 7 has its own space-time... You don't need to say entire timeline for it to be affecting Space-Time.

"You're not using Occam's Razor correctly, because the statement only says he became one with Universe 7. it takes extra assumptions to assume that he merged with the space-time when the argument to begin with is that all the universes are in the same space-time. "

He came one with Universe 7, while his very existence is affecting another Timeline, Occam's Razor obviously decides that our pick is the better choice then your, "Nah, just affecting the matter of the Universe, and totally not the Space-Time as well."

"Yeah, our default is that universes have separate space-times, but in this case there is context pointing to the contrary, that Dragon Ball's multiverse is a quilted one. "

No, not really, as the points that I've just made to you can exist in both models.
 
quilted multiverse is a theory that says every single possibility exists in its own hubble volume.....so i guess now db has a multiverse containing infinite universe......high 2-a zeno when?
 
Professor: "I think what Shadow's point here was that the timelines in DBS shouldn't include other universes but just the universe that the timeline originally originates from. Like for his example, a new timeline of universe 7 shouldnt have any other universe but Universe 7 in it. "

I think his point fails. Traveling to an alternate Universe means you also must travel to another Timeline. The entirety of existence is made up of 12 Universe, which may have disjointed Space-Times or not, this whole existence is a Timeline. The Universe itself doesn't have their own Time-line, but they have their own Space-Time.
 
> I agree that the Mortal Universe is as large as ours. However, we have no idea how big these "alternate dimensions" are lol. "Now if you look at the map, the Sacred Realm of the Kai is literally located outside of the universe and even looks like it's separated by its own 4D bubble

These "alternate dimensions" are obviously the afterlife and the realm of the Kai. Saying that they're unknown in size shows you're arguing form ignorance because it was agreed a while ago that the U7 globe is 110x greater than our universe in size. So the Kai Realm being 1/10 the size sill makes it universe sized. The realm of the Kai is in no way connected to the Afterlife or the Universe. It's quite literally separated just look at it. Assuming that there's some kind of extra space surrounding the globe is head canon. I already showed you a scan of univers 10 being the same structure as U7, so destroying the universe including something outside of it would be at least universal+.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
If Zamasu merged with the timeline, how exactly did Goku time travel back after Zeno apparently busted it all? I've always wondered this.
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the time machine was set up to go to a certain place in time 17 years ahead.....doesnt matter if the place or time is destroyed....it was set for that particular point where all that was left was void

normal time machine does not work that way so it is just plot indused stupidity
 
Giygas3 said:
I think his point fails. Traveling to an alternate Universe means you also must travel to another Timeline. The entirety of existence is made up of 12 Universe, which may have disjointed Time-lines or not, this whole existence is a Timeline. The Universe itself doesn't have their own Time-line, but they have their own Space-Time.
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But I think thats what the issue here is. Timelines in DBS dont exactly work like how regular timelines do from whats being presented here.

A regular timeline only has one universal space-time structure in and of itself, not every universal space-time structure in existence of a verse. Universe A's timeline wouldnt include Universe B in it and vice versa. And this is how we treat timelines for every other verse in general, which is why its very strange to hear it being done for DBS.

So for example, a timeline in Pokemon doesnt have every [insert number of universes here] existing universe from the Pokemon Multiverse as a part of it. A timeline in Pokemon only has the universe that the timeline is originally apart of. Same thing for Sonic as another example. Not every universe from within a multiverse exists in a single timeline.
 
Professor: "A regular timeline only has one universal space-time structure in and of itself"

Why can it only have one, and not multiple?

" Universe A's timeline wouldnt include Universe B in it and vice verse. "

Are you commenting to the thought-experiment I made, or just some random example?

"So for example, a timeline in Pokemon doesnt have every [insert number of universes here] existing universe from the Pokemon Multiverse as a part of it. A timeline in Pokemon only has the universe that the timeline is originally apart of. Same thing for Sonic as another example. Not every universe from within a multiverse exists in a single timeline. "

In your example, all of reality is made up of one Universe, while there is multiple other Universes which may be referred to as a Multiverse. While in Dragon Ball all of reality is made up of 12 Universes, which there is multiple other alternate Time-Lines for which may be referred to as a, "Multiverse". Pokémon only has one entire Time-line for a Universe, while Dragon ball has 12 Universes for a Time-Line. In the case for Dragon ball, I'm arguing that existence is a Time-Line (12 Universes) Each Universe containing its own Space-Time from the other ones within this whole Time-Line.
 
Yeah, but the problem is that isnt how a timeline works. If the universes are supposed to be seperate space-times, then the timelines of these said universes shouldnt have other universes as a part of it. A timeline can't have other timelines inside of itself and quite frankly, this is something that I have never heard of before.
 
Then you completely missed my point. You brought up, "When new timelines are created splitting off from the original one, it creates a new copy of all 12 universes, not just for instance Universe 7" And I'm explaining why the current model that we're using is perfectly compatible with what was shown.

Ok and the model doesn't automatically prove them being separate space-times so there isn't much of a point in mentioning it.

So according to you, you can't have a space-time continumm being encompassed by an even larger one? Where the larger one affects the entirety, whilst the smaller one doesn't affect the larger one? This is not contradictory in the least.

Let's do a little thought experiment, shall we? Let's say we have Universe 1, and Universe 2. Universe 2 is far larger in size than Universe 1, whilst Universe 1 is encompassed by it as well. Let's represent the entirety of this existence by a Timeline. If I go into another timeline, we will certainly have a duplicate of both Universes, however, each Universe still has their own separate Space-Time within the Time-line. You can see why your point is moot by this.

What you fail to realize is that this needs to be proven, Dragon Ball doesn't have that kind of evidence for each of the 12 universes being a smaller space-time. Timeline splits creating new copies of them only proves to be contrary to this.

Universe 7 has its own space-time... You don't need to say entire timeline for it to be affecting Space-Time.

And I explained why it doesn't.

He came one with Universe 7, while his very existence is affecting another Timeline, Occam's Razor obviously decides that our pick is the better choice then your, "Nah, just affecting the matter of the Universe, and totally not the Space-Time as well.

It's just a face that showed up in the present. This is easily just dimensional travel.

No, not really, as the points that I've just made to you can exist in both models.

Problem is these points are speculation rather than actual evidence in the series.
 
Professor: "If the universes are supposed to be seperate space-times, then the timelines of these said universes shouldnt have other universes as a part of it."

I don't see why not. A timeline doesn't have to have only one Space-Time, it can have multiple. (Take for example my Universe Thought-Experiment)

". A timeline can't have other timelines inside of itself and quite frankly"

That's the point, a Timeline doesn't have timelines inside of itself, but timeline Ôëá a single Space-Time. In shows, it's more like: Timeline>= a single Space-Time.
 
But a timeline IS only a single space-time. Thats the standard we go by for timelines here. Like, what other verse on this site do we treat a timeline as more than a single universe besides DBS?
 
Zamasu Chan said:
> I agree that the Mortal Universe is as large as ours. However, we have no idea how big these "alternate dimensions" are lol. "Now if you look at the map, the Sacred Realm of the Kai is literally located outside of the universe and even looks like it's separated by its own 4D bubble
These "alternate dimensions" are obviously the afterlife and the realm of the Kai. Saying that they're unknown in size shows you're arguing form ignorance because it was agreed a while ago that the U7 globe is 110x greater than our universe in size. So the Kai Realm being 1/10 the size sill makes it universe sized. The realm of the Kai is in no way connected to the Afterlife or the Universe. It's quite literally separated just look at it. Assuming that there's some kind of extra space surrounding the globe is head canon. I already showed you a scan of univers 10 being the same structure as U7, so destroying the universe including something outside of it would be at least universal+.
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Okay, but the Afterlife and the Kaioshin Realm are not universe sized my dude. The Kai Realm is 1/10 of the size of the Macrosom and it's not nearly as big as the DB world. I'm well aware that the Kai Realm is seperate from the Afterlife or the Universe, I can see that. However, I'm saying the Kai Realm is not universe sized. Where did you get the fact that U7 globe is 110x greater than our universe in size? It's supposed to resemble our universe. Your scans say nothing about how it's 110x greater than our universe in size.

Zamasu was literally becoming one with one universe. He didn't even bust the timeline nor did Zeno either because Trunks could still travel back to it. So, so far you haven't really provided much evidence for a 2-C Dragon Ball nor has any of your supporters here.
 
There was a calculation that puts the Dragon Ball universe as being at least 40x the size of the observable universe; given the Earth is located at the edge of the Universe according to the cosmology would effect the overall structure. And Inverse square law of SSG Goku and casual Beerus got the calculation to be 200 and something times baseline given the center of their attack would be from the edge of that Universe. That's probably what Zamasu was referring to.

That being said, the thread is still unearthing the same things repeated time and time again. We had far too many staff discussions about the Cosmology of Super.
 
Godhand1999 said:
This is kind of wrong considering that in order to bust a universe completely, you'd have to destroy the space/time continuum. Second of all, the wiki does in fact use this model. In order to be Low 2-C the tiring system literally states "characters who can destroy and/or create the entire 4-dimensional space-time of a single universe, not just the physical matter within one. For example, an entire timeline."
An entire timeline was not destroyed by Zeno if Future Trunks can still return back to it. Also, you'd also have to provide evidence and proof that Dragon Ball even has 2-C structures because I'm sure it doesn't. They all share the same timeline. Zamasu was also becoming one with Universe 7, he wasn't actually going to bust the space/time continuum yet.

Also, keep in mind the definition of the Universe also includes space AND time as well into the equation. So, what you're saying is kind of incorrect.
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"All existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos. The universe is believed to be at least 10 billion light years in diameter and contains a vast number of galaxies; it has been expanding since its creation in the Big Bang about 13 billion years ago." ~ Oxford Dictionary

Doesn't say anything about time, but let's say it does, since time is, after all, a property of space. Then Zamasu becoming the universe would just be him becoming time, as well, and universe would just inherently equate to "spacetime continuum". It doesn't change my points at all, since it still equates all the continua as existing without the universes being a single spacetime. I'd just like to mention that "spacetime" itself is already theoretical, since time isn't provably a mathematical dimension and doesn't inherently function as one, and there was a thread awhile back talking about this and why destroying universe should normally be considered Low 2-C instead of 3-A because of the definition of universe. Destroying all matter and space considered as a whole would just be inherently Low 2-C. The 3-A/High 3-A stuff is just destroying all of the matter within the universe, while Low 2-C is destroying the universe, itself, as was quoted by you.

It gives a timeline as an example, but that doesn't mean that it has to be a timeline to be Low 2-C, especially since this is arguably a timeline that is 2-C in size.
 
Shadow: "Ok and the model doesn't automatically prove them being separate space-times so there isn't much of a point in mentioning it"

OK, and where did I ever say it did? You're still completely missing the point. You're trying to use this example as for why we shouldn't treat the Universes as having different Space-Times... I'm trying to refute this and saying this point doesn't intel one or the other Models.

"What you fail to realize is that this needs to be proven, Dragon Ball doesn't have that kind of evidence for each of the 12 universes being a smaller space-time. Timeline splits creating new copies of them only proves to be contrary to this. "

… You're entirely missing the points of my comment. But okay, let me put it like this: If the default position should be that we should treat the Universes as separate Space-Times, encompassed by a whole Time-Line, then what evidence supports to the contrary? As in, can you give an example of where this model fails in. Your example fails as it can be explained by the current model we have.

"And I explained why it doesn't. "

Where?

"It's just a face that showed up in the present. This is easily just dimensional travel. "

Or ya know... Him becoming one with the Universe also includes the Space-Time, which perfectly explains why he's able to affect another Time-Line?

"Problem is these points are speculation rather than actual evidence in the series."

This has got to be the 5th time you missed my point.

Listen, You need to show an example of where this model fails in (As it's the default position), and so far, you've not done that - Therefore, the Model stays until you can give an example of where it fails at.
 
Oxford Dictionary is like super outdated. And besides, Dictionary definitions have never really been in effective tactic around here. But it doesn't change the fact that Infinite Zamasu feat is definitely Tier 2. Also, Goku travelling to the past when Zeno erased the timeline doesn't hold a lot of weight since he was obviously traveling to a different timeline altogether.

Wikipedia, while not saying is the most reliable thing either, also describes the definition of universe as meaning Space-Time Continuum.
 
Professor: "But a timeline IS only a single space-time. Thats the standard we go by for timelines here. Like, what other verse on this site do we treat a timeline as more than a single universe besides DBS? "

Debunk my Thought-Experiments with the Universes, and I'll concede.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
But a timeline IS only a single space-time. Thats the standard we go by for timelines here. Like, what other verse on this site do we treat a timeline as more than a single universe besides DBS?
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I still would like an answer for this. Because we dont do this "2-C structured timeline" business for any other Tier 2 or higher Multiversal verse.
 
Dragon ball has multiple multiverses like how other fictions like Marvel have Infinite amounts of infinite multiverses. I guess that means each infinite multiverse is high 3-A.

And many of the questions are asking to "prove the universes are 4D" is literally just proving a negative.
 
@Niarobi Destroying a universe is 3-A unless there's evidence of it including space-time, then it'd be Low 2-C.

@Giygas3

OK, and where did I ever say it did? You're still completely missing the point. You're trying to use this example as for why we shouldn't treat the Universes as having different Space-Times... I'm trying to refute this and saying this point doesn't intel one or the other Models.

"The current model is treated as an entire timeline encompassing all 12 Universe, each Universe containing its own Space-Time Continumm."

Here.

…You're entirely missing the points of my comment. But okay, let me put it like this: If the default position should be that we should treat the Universes as separate Space-Times, encompassed by a whole Time-Line, then what evidence supports to the contrary? As in, can you give an example of where this model fails in. Your example fails as it can be explained by the current model we have.

If the universes are sharing a timeline that goes against the notion of them being separate space-times in the first place. A timeline by default is one space-time continuum.

Where?

In the OP where I said all the universes are in the same space-time.

Or ya know... Him becoming one with the Universe also includes the Space-Time, which perfectly explains why he's able to affect another Time-Line?

Not inherently. For example, Bender became one with the universe but he's 3-A. And since I'm saying Universe 7 doesn't have its own space-time, that's further reason for Infinite Zamasu not being Low 2-C.

This has got to be the 5th time you missed my point.

Listen, You need to show an example of where this model fails in (As it's the default position), and so far, you've not done that - Therefore, the Model stays until you can give an example of where it fails at.

The default is that universes would be their own timelines and not share a timeline with other universes.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Dragon ball has multiple multiverses like how other fictions like Marvel have Infinite amounts of infinite multiverses. I guess that means each infinite multiverse is high 3-A.
And many of the questions are asking to "prove the universes are 4D" is literally just proving a negative.
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Marvel universes don't share a timeline, so that's a bad analogy.
 
Not really sure why this is even still going on tbh, the OP has been debunked and it's just users going back and forth at this point. Someone should close this.
 
@Shadow. It being a timeline or not is irrelevant because that just shows that large 4D structures can hold 4D structures.
 
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