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Dragon Ball Super Episode 123 Upgrades

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We've got @Promestein's approval for Low 2-C SSB Goku and New Form Vegeta. I agree with @Aeyu in that I don't think we should give Low 2-C to anyone else, at least right now while the Tournament of Power is still ongoing. When the Tournament is over and this ridiculous zenkai fest finally runs its course then maybe we can look at other characters getting Low 2-C. The evidence is so overwhelming for Low 2-C Goku and Vegeta at this point that I think it's fair to give them the upgrade, but anything else is conjecture.

If we can get @Kaltias, @Antvasima or @The real cal howard to back this up then I think this upgrade is settled.
 
Low 2-C Goku across all keys, Low 2-C Vegeta in his new form @Aeyu

I don't even wanna get into the scaling storm with the other characters.
 
I don't think that his 3-A key needs to be changed though. He's not a straight Low 2-C from the beginning of Super.

Just his Low 2-C key being corrected and added to would work well enough. But yeah, I agree with not worrying about those other characters, at least not in this thread.
 
Woops that's not what I meant, Low 2-C non U-I as well, so I guess his current key can disregard his power being only in UIO, if that's what it says.
 
I agree with Low 2-C SSB Goku & Limit Breaker Vegeta. As Jiren is using lot more power than he used against UI Goku
 
Like I said in the previous thread, a super heavily suppressed Jire was stated to be stronger than IZ twice. Now Jiren uses his aura and Belmod says that he is only using a "hint" of his true power and it's been a while since he saw Jiren like that. LOL Jiren is still heavily suppressed.

Since Jiren is well above Low 2-C even in his suppressed level, this further solidifies the fact that GoDs destroying 2 universes is indeed a 2-C feat and that means each GoD is in the vicinity between Low 2-C and 2-C.

I am in favor of only Goku and Vegeta being Low 2-C for now, but it will create a mess for the others who scale to them.
 
Maybe Vegeta can get Possibly low 2-C due to Grand Priest statements, but defiantly not Blue Goku. Are you guys forgetting that as soon as Jiren got serious he performed one ki "Punch" and it scared Goku back to his base form? Plus Goku couldn't even put a scratch on Jiren despite everything he tried. Goku should be good at 3-A for now
 
Also, "King Kai Fist" does mean kaioken x2 normally, but Beerus said that Goku was using all of his power so I think this was x20.
 
Amlad, did you ignore like... everything else everyone said above? Sure Goku got scared, but still stalemated that "Arisen" Jiren. Intimidation =/= Anti Feat. And Jiren only got scratched via being caught off guard the one time against UIO Goku, otherwise nothing can do it. He's been Ultra Casual before and now he's regular casual. Also just being able to push back And harm Jiren who had before 1-shot the regular SSB Vegeta says something. Goku's not good at being 3-A for now since literally all evidence in the latest episode points otherwise.
 
Maybe I missed something, but should'nt Goku's SSBKK be receiving the low 2-C update rather than SSB. In the fight with SSB goku was using strategy to deal with Jiren while he was pretty much standing still or restraining his power, Goku being able to knock back Jiren was more akin to a child being able to push back an adult if the kid jump kicks em with a running start while the adult stands still. Doesn't mean the kid is as powerful as the adult.
 
LightningGee said:
Maybe I missed something, but should'nt Goku's SSBKK be receiving the low 2-C update rather than SSB. In the fight with SSB goku was using strategy to deal with Jiren while he was pretty much standing still or restraining his power, Goku being able to knock back Jiren was more akin to a child being able to push back an adult if the kid jump kicks em with a running start while the adult stands still. Doesn't mean the kid is as powerful as the adult.
Click to expand...
Agreed
 
AKM sama said:
Like I said in the previous thread, a super heavily suppressed Jire was stated to be stronger than IZ twice. Now Jiren uses his aura and Belmod says that he is only using a "hint" of his true power and it's been a while since he saw Jiren like that. LOL Jiren is still heavily suppressed.

Since Jiren is well above Low 2-C even in his suppressed level, this further solidifies the fact that GoDs destroying 2 universes is indeed a 2-C feat and that means each GoD is in the vicinity between Low 2-C and 2-C.

I am in favor of only Goku and Vegeta being Low 2-C for now, but it will create a mess for the others who scale to them.
Click to expand...
Where was it stated that Jiren is stronger than IZ? Goku helplessly called Zeno for help. IZ was nigh-omnipresent with low-Godly Regenerationn. How was Jiren supposed to beat him?
 
Jiren's energy was stated by Shin (who was there when Infinite Zamasu appeared) that it was the strongest they've ever felt before.

Vegeta even says he's never felt a energy as powerful or heavy as Jiren's.

Goku says Jiren's attacks are the strongest ones he's ever faced before.
 
Poinciana1971 said:
Jiren's energy was stated by Shin (who was there when Infinite Zamasu appeared) that it was the strongest they've ever felt before.

Vegeta even says he's never felt a energy as powerful or heavy as Jiren's.

Goku says Jiren's attacks are the strongest ones he's ever faced before.
Click to expand...
It's an extremely vague statement. Since they must not have kept IZ in consideration (the timeline is erased ffs). Back to the original question what can Jiren do to beat Infinite Zamasu?
 
Sorry your flawed logic is... flawed.

They said he's the strongest they've felt so he's the strongest they've felt. Saying that oh maybe they weren't thinking about Infintie Zamasu is just plain wrong.
 
Just because the timeline is erased doesn't mean that their memories are, you can't just assume they are leaving IZ out of the question.
 
@JackJoyce

What can Jiren do to Infinite Zamasu?

Consecutive Normal Punches

If the guy can shake an infinite void with little effort, he can damage a Universe merged with Zamasu. Hell, even Kefla could blow away a universe in one shot.
 
JackJoyce said:
-snip- It's an extremely vague statement. Since they must not have kept IZ in consideration (the timeline is erased ffs).
Click to expand...
So...why wouldn't they have? They still remember that IZ happened/existed. Future Trunks wasn't erased even after Goku went back and grabbed Future Zeno from the empty nothingness. Ergo, Goku had to have been thinking of IZ, too, when he said that. Your logic is flawed.
 
@JackJoyce

A intro to Infinite Zamasu:

A short time after Fused Zamasu is split in half and seemingly destroyed by Trunks, vanishing into nothingness, Fused Zamasu's will survived as a result of Future Zamasu's immortality and appeared as a large column of dark energy that erupts from the place where he disappeared, growing up into the sky and splitting into multiple beams before taking on a cloud-like form. The cloud then spreads across the surface of the Earth, surrounding it entirely before taking on a sinister appearance with Zamasu's face printed all over it and constantly emitting insane laughter. According to Gowasu, Fused Zamasu cast aside his body and allowed his essence and energy to become the universe itself in order to be order and justice. With Fused Zamasu's essence spreading across the universe, he begins to become one with it. Zamasu's energy was also able to reach the past of the main timeline. Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks unleash a combined Kamehameha, Galick Gun and Final Flash, but it had no effect against Zamasu. Continuing the plan his fusees started, Infinite Zamasu fires destructive energy waves at the Earth, killing almost all of the survivors and leaving the Earth desolate and ruined, and Infinite Zamasu quickly takes over the entire multiverse of Trunks' timeline and begins to invade the present timeline.

Next, look at the scaling:

Kaio-Shin < Goku Black < Fused Zamasu < Infinite Zamasu < Gods of Destruction < Ultra Instinct Goku < Jiren < Alternate Zeno

Beerus could have easily killed Infinite Zamasu, but he was outside of his jurisdiction.
 
@ the above statements

No it shouldn't just be for SSBKK Goku. He fought the same Jiren in standard SSB. Even if his punch scared Goku to base form, he took a TON more of the very same punches in base form then powered up to SSBKK.

Jiren is Saitama confirmed.
 
More specifically, Jiren was stated to have used more power than he has in a long time, and Goku put up some fight against him, but Jiren powered up even more, outclassing them.

@UMR

Saitama wishes.
 
Base Goku shouldn't be Low 2-C, tho. It should see Blue Goku Post-Zenkai and Vegeta in his new Blue form.
 
ToP (Pre-Jiren Round 1)

ToP (Post-Jiren Round 1)

ToP (Jiren Round 2)

Too long?
 
@Firestorm808 Whis & Beerus stated they had their own way to seal immortals. Nowhere they mentioned they could do that to IZ.

Even if Jiren could damage the universe merged with Zamasu it's only a High 3-A feat. Look agai low 2-C is for characters who can destroy/create entire 4 dimensional space-time of one universe not just the physical matter. Saying Jiren can do that is as much hyperbole as saying Zeno can erase 1 trillion universes
 
Way too long. He wasn't Low 2-C in Blue Pre Kelfa.

"Tournament of Power (Post-Zenkai)", should be the key name, and you explain in the AP section that he got stronger after his first fight with Jiren, and then once again after Kefla.
 
He wouldn't be Low 2-C in AP, just durability, but the entire key would be Low 2-C due to his SSB form anyway so yeah.

@Fankid

LJwXckD
 
I disagree. By this logic Base Goku should be Low 2-C in the Zamasu Arc cause he survived blasts from IZ.

Also writers repeatedly ignore the gap between 3-A and Low 2-C.

As of Blueberry, sure.
 
Not really. He will still be Low 2-C in the new Key, you just need to clarify that it is with Super Saiyan Blue.
 
How about

Normal | Limit Breaker | Post Limit Breaker

Umr has a scan that says Goku got stronger while fighting Kale and Caulifa in one of his super revision pages.
 
Surviving one blast from IZ =/= Surviving 10+ punches from Jiren in base + his higher forms

He did the same surviving Hit's blows + more, when those same blows destroyed SSB Vegeta.

He tanked Jiren's blast when UI ran out in base as well.
 
IZ is still Universe+, which Jiren is Superior to.

If you can push back an energy blast, you're comparable to the character.

That's not really relevant, characters can power up and down at FTE speeds.
 
@Fankid, that plays into Jiren's tier, not Kefla's.

Jiren is also Universe level+...

Kefla at the most I could support being At least 3-A.

But yeah, I don't think he necessarily needs a new key. If we're gonna separate, the best course of action would be:

3-A. Low 2-C after obtaining Ultra Instinct twice | Low 2-C
 
The Spirit Bomb did literally nothing to Jiren. He blinked it away while holding back. She would ONLY be at least 3-A due to scaling to Goku.
 
He still had trouble against it, and no, blinking it away is pretty much nothing, especially since Goku managed to suppress it in the end.
 
While holding back and not moving at all? I don't think so. Next you're gonna tell me Goku moving Jiren's head in SSJ2 means SSJ2 is High 3-A.
 
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