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Yamcha actually fights competently for once in the new chapter
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 86
- Thread starter DragonEmperor23
- Start date
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- Tags
- dragon ball moro son goku vegeta
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Well, hes doing a terrible job. 90% of the fan base have not been happy with his work since late Zamasu arc.
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He keep tracing panels from the original manga, his fight scenes look like screenshots of the fight rather than the actual fight, he try to use ******* fandom memes in the actual work (like Krillin being a coward that can do nothing but hides or die to the point that's even how Goku, the dude who see Krillin as his best friend no matter what, see him despite Goku always encouraging Krillin in OG DB and even DBZ), his characterisation sucks (Goku is a parody of his TFS self at times, with Toyotaro even having Goku and Roshi say he is a shit student who never learned what his masters tried to tell him, 18 has no personality at all beyond 'cold and wants money' gags and seem to hate her husband which is NOT how it's supposed to be, Vegeta being presented as a good dad) and he put way too much focus on Vegeta, especialy in the Moro arc where Goku has basicaly doine jackshit except being a cheerleader and went nowhere with his training while Vegeta is doing better than Goku ever did according to the Yardrat, he keep overusing the 'Buu is sleeping' shit, Krillin, Piccolo and Gohan basicaly showed up just to be useless etc.ZERO7772 said:
There was also the whole TOP disaster, with none of the univers having a last stand, Kale just eliminating like 4 univers in 3 panels and Kefla vs Gohan being an offscreen fight that doesn't even make sense given that Kale alone took out most participant, which is clearly not shown to be something Gohan could have done and the whole UI Roshi shit, the same Roshi who in the previous arc couldn't even see Frost fighting because it was too fast but here he dodge Jiren like it's nothing.
And the list goes on and on.
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Although Toei, Toyotaro and Toriyama are all guilty of bad writing with some of modern Dragon Ball's stories. I am quite worried about the future of Dragon Ball series
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So Vegeta is just supposed to be perpetually a shitty dad?
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No but you're not supposed to portray it as if he always had been a good dad or doesn't have problems with even being around since he litteraly never does anything with Trunks and hadn't cared enough to hug before the Buu saga, which is barely 3 month before the start of super.Lollipop The King said:
With Toyotaro we get Vegeta, the guy who left baby Trunks and Bulma to die without giving a shit calling Goku a bad father.
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...So it makes more sense for the Galactic Patrol, an org who couldn't even deal with first form Freeza (whom Yamcha should be around Namek Saga first form Freeza AT LEAST), to have a bunch of criminals locked up that so surpass that level as to make Yamcha completely useless?
It actually makes less sense that any of them would be stronger than Yamcha. These guys are elite-level Freeza Force goons at best save for Seven-Three, and Yamcha has been >Ginyu-level as a lowball since the Android Saga
It actually makes less sense that any of them would be stronger than Yamcha. These guys are elite-level Freeza Force goons at best save for Seven-Three, and Yamcha has been >Ginyu-level as a lowball since the Android Saga
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I fully agree with Dragomer, the Galatic Patrol Prisoner Saga was what totally destroyed my hopes in Toyotaro. Sure, his work on the Future Trunks and Universal Survival Sagas hadn't been stellar, but this saga is literally just a fanfic glorified to the level of official material.
Also, doesn't Super start 6 years after Majin Boo's defeat? Pan was 4 at the end of Z, and it's been 10 years between Majin Boo's defeat and that epilogue.
Also, doesn't Super start 6 years after Majin Boo's defeat? Pan was 4 at the end of Z, and it's been 10 years between Majin Boo's defeat and that epilogue.
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Super already retconned the End of Z, I'm pretty sure they'll end it their own way now whenever they get to that point.
Remember, guys, Toriyama is writing the main story points of this stuff. He can change whatever he wants.
Remember, guys, Toriyama is writing the main story points of this stuff. He can change whatever he wants.
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The Moro arc has pretty awful pacing and its villain, Moro, hasn't impressed me in the slightest thus far. His 'hax' is incredibly boring and offers nothing to the table. Merus is a character I just don't understand or like, being a 'trainee Angel' that just happened to be around to train Goku and is also magically a far more effective teacher than Whis ever was (seriously, Toyotaro ***** on Whis constantly. Vegeta dismisses him publically, Roshi teaches Goku to go UIS the first time and Merus, his baby brother, is who teaches Goku to go UIS at will). Merus seriously comes off as a Gary Stu at times.
He chose to generically rehash the Frieza saga by having Moro go to Namek and commit genocide (how many times has Namek been genocided in the franchise now?) just for his super special wish to be...releasing a bunch of fodders from prison (why couldn't he do that himself?) and then stupidly spares Goku and Vegeta multiple times.
The only new character that is even remotely interesting or cool is Seven-Three, due to his abilities. All of the other characters are painfully dull and, even then, all of them are based on another character that Toriyama designed...displaying zero creativity on Toyo's part.
Overall, the only parts I like would be Galactic Patrol, Spirit Control and the Gohan/Piccolo vs Seven-Three fight. Everything else is just inconsistent, bland or rehashed.
Manga-wise it roughly goes:
Black > Universe 6 > Beerus > Moro > Universe Survival
Whereas anime-wise I would rate it as:
Universe Survival > Black > Universe 6 > Beerus >> Frieza
I hope he manages to make up for my issues by the end of this arc, but this pacing is seriously horrendous.
He chose to generically rehash the Frieza saga by having Moro go to Namek and commit genocide (how many times has Namek been genocided in the franchise now?) just for his super special wish to be...releasing a bunch of fodders from prison (why couldn't he do that himself?) and then stupidly spares Goku and Vegeta multiple times.
The only new character that is even remotely interesting or cool is Seven-Three, due to his abilities. All of the other characters are painfully dull and, even then, all of them are based on another character that Toriyama designed...displaying zero creativity on Toyo's part.
Overall, the only parts I like would be Galactic Patrol, Spirit Control and the Gohan/Piccolo vs Seven-Three fight. Everything else is just inconsistent, bland or rehashed.
Manga-wise it roughly goes:
Black > Universe 6 > Beerus > Moro > Universe Survival
Whereas anime-wise I would rate it as:
Universe Survival > Black > Universe 6 > Beerus >> Frieza
I hope he manages to make up for my issues by the end of this arc, but this pacing is seriously horrendous.
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Wow. You guys really don't like Toyotaro. Like, on a scale of 1 to 10, it's an 11.
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I like the Yamcha spotlight
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How Super retconned the end of Z?A Stoned Orc said:
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I guess the potara time limit
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I like Toyotaro. Only stupid idea of his was Dyspo and the Potara retcon, IMO. As for retconning the end of Z, Pan has been born far too early. She's going to be nearly 10 by the end of Z at this rate.
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Long ass comment ahead, but keep in mind that Toyotaro made me do it
What tier would Chou Gohan and Chou Piccolo be?
Gohan easily defeated Seven-Three before the latter used Moro's power. We know that Seven-Three (after absorbing Piccolo's power) had a slight edge over Piccolo, but what tier would Chou Piccolo be? He could harm Seven-Three too, which would mean that he and Gohan wouldn't be too far apart. After the two-month time skip, the situation changed a bit: Gohan and Piccolo got stronger, and they're both explicitly comparable to each other.
We know that Gohan was equal to Kefla in the ToP, but it's kinda hard to scale Kefla. Vados said that due to Caulibae and Kale being severely weakened when they merged, Kefla only had Kale's power and Caulifla's fighting skill, but it's hard to scale Kale to anyone. She stomped Freeza, but Freeza stated that if he fought her seriously, he would've been able to defeat her, so I guess this could make her somewhat comparable to SSJB Goku, but her getting stomped by base Goku level characters due to "lack of control" makes it even harder to measure, after all, why would Freeza need to go serious in his Golden Form to beat someone who got beaten by the people that failed miserable to beat base Goku? I might be crazy because I don't remember much of the manga, but I remember discussing this issue before
Do you guys remember some statements or feats that could put Piccolo in the 4-B area or comparisons between Gohan and Goku/Vegeta since Piccolo scales to Gohan?
What tier would Chou Gohan and Chou Piccolo be?
Gohan easily defeated Seven-Three before the latter used Moro's power. We know that Seven-Three (after absorbing Piccolo's power) had a slight edge over Piccolo, but what tier would Chou Piccolo be? He could harm Seven-Three too, which would mean that he and Gohan wouldn't be too far apart. After the two-month time skip, the situation changed a bit: Gohan and Piccolo got stronger, and they're both explicitly comparable to each other.
We know that Gohan was equal to Kefla in the ToP, but it's kinda hard to scale Kefla. Vados said that due to Caulibae and Kale being severely weakened when they merged, Kefla only had Kale's power and Caulifla's fighting skill, but it's hard to scale Kale to anyone. She stomped Freeza, but Freeza stated that if he fought her seriously, he would've been able to defeat her, so I guess this could make her somewhat comparable to SSJB Goku, but her getting stomped by base Goku level characters due to "lack of control" makes it even harder to measure, after all, why would Freeza need to go serious in his Golden Form to beat someone who got beaten by the people that failed miserable to beat base Goku? I might be crazy because I don't remember much of the manga, but I remember discussing this issue before
Do you guys remember some statements or feats that could put Piccolo in the 4-B area or comparisons between Gohan and Goku/Vegeta since Piccolo scales to Gohan?
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Kale (and thus Kale) is undoubtedly into the 3-B, she almost knocked both Toppo and Freeza off, but her terrible skills as a Berserker made her power drop quickly (Toyo puts A LOT more of enphasis of technique and attacks, more than Toriyama ever did)
7-11 is a case of a glass cannon, but his hax allows him to copy power wiith the same AP, Already before he was wrecked by Gohan, but survived due to Moro's power (and now it seems 17 is going to end his career.
I'd say At Least High 4-C (could contend with Piccolo), 3-B by power copying
7-11 is a case of a glass cannon, but his hax allows him to copy power wiith the same AP, Already before he was wrecked by Gohan, but survived due to Moro's power (and now it seems 17 is going to end his career.
I'd say At Least High 4-C (could contend with Piccolo), 3-B by power copying
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7-3 never fought using his power. Even back when he solo'ed Piccolo he did it after he stole his power and then he beat Gohan with Moro's power. #17 will likely put an end to him but we will see.
Can't they frankly let #18 and #17 take care of Moro? He's little trick doesn't work against them.
Can't they frankly let #18 and #17 take care of Moro? He's little trick doesn't work against them.
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It's annoying how people are still in denial about the fact that Vegeta was and would have been a genocidial maniac even without Freezer and didn't give a shit about his father nor his planet.
You show them scans of Vegeta ignoring the call to go back to planete Vegeta and they still screech that Freezer spared him on purpose and was like his evil mentor or some shit when it's made clear Freezer didn't give a shit.
You show them scans of Vegeta ignoring the call to go back to planete Vegeta and they still screech that Freezer spared him on purpose and was like his evil mentor or some shit when it's made clear Freezer didn't give a shit.
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