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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 86

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I was reading a fanmanga and the author note was the author bitching about how canon was ruined by the DB minus thing were Vegeta just ignore the order and that 'it wasn't true' (whatever the **** that means when talking about the goddamn canon version) so i was annoyed.

And since i was reading that fanmanga because of something i saw on this site, i felt appropriate to bitch about it here.

For all his flaws, Toyotaro was clearly not the worst DB fanmanga artist they could have chosen.
 
IMO the best DB fanmanga artist is Dragon Garow Lee.

Both Dragonball Sai AND The Case of Being Reincarnated as Yamcha have given me the most 'Dragonball but with a twist' feeling
 
Xantospoc said:
IMO the best DB fanmanga artist is Dragon Garow Lee.
Both Dragonball Sai AND The Case of Being Reincarnated as Yamcha have given me the most 'Dragonball but with a twist' feeling
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I pretty much agree, the one who made DB SD make pretty good gags though.

The Yamcha Isekai was really good, would be funny to have a 'King Cold Isekai' with the MC having to raise Freezer.
 
Dragomer said:
It's annoying how people are still in denial about the fact that Vegeta was and would have been a genocidial maniac even without Freezer and didn't give a shit about his father nor his planet.
You show them scans of Vegeta ignoring the call to go back to planete Vegeta and they still screech that Freezer spared him on purpose and was like his evil mentor or some shit when it's made clear Freezer didn't give a shit.
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Freeza only kept Vegeta alive for two reasons. A) he could get some use and entertainment out of him, and B) he believed that he could easily kill him at any point in time, because most of the Freeza Force pre-Namek seem to believe that power levels are static (which makes me wonder how any of them got any power to begin with, they can't all be mutants like Freeza).
 
A Stoned Orc said:
Dragomer said:
It's annoying how people are still in denial about the fact that Vegeta was and would have been a genocidial maniac even without Freezer and didn't give a shit about his father nor his planet.
You show them scans of Vegeta ignoring the call to go back to planete Vegeta and they still screech that Freezer spared him on purpose and was like his evil mentor or some shit when it's made clear Freezer didn't give a shit.
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Freeza only kept Vegeta alive for two reasons. A) he could get some use and entertainment out of him, and B) he believed that he could easily kill him at any point in time, because most of the Freeza Force pre-Namek seem to believe that power levels are static (which makes me wonder how any of them got any power to begin with, they can't all be mutants like Freeza).
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They seem to account for growing up and military training but they don't believe that anyone can jump beyond their prediction or something like that, to be fair, Vegeta only got stronger due to a biological quirk back then so he didn't disprove their way fo thinking unlike Goku.
 
I think it's kind of implied that the Frieza Force constantly sends their men on missions, so there isn't much time to train or progress in-between their work. Elites like Zarbon and Dodoria have no real impetus to grow stronger, due to being comfortable in their positions among the Top 10 in the entire universe. You also have to note that Saiyans were considered the most elite and powerful warriors in the universe, so judging all of the other races in Frieza's army based on them is a tad ridiculous.

Hell, Goku, Vegeta and their kids are all 0.0001% of the Saiyan race, who are already considered the 1% of warriors in the universe so they are basically massive outliers.

The issue is why Vegeta didn't seem to grow much stronger over the course of his work in the Frieza Force. You can argue Nappa and Raditz just lacked the potential of Goku and Vegeta's lineages, but why wouldn't Vegeta get stronger from Zenkai boosting?

Considering that Vegeta's loss on Earth made him capable of stomping Cui and defeating Dodoria, I think the implication is that Vegeta just never lost a fight or had a rival to improve against. He was likely just running around bullying much weaker fighters his entire life.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Considering that Vegeta's loss on Earth made him capable of stomping Cui and defeating Dodoria, I think the implication is that Vegeta just never lost a fight or had a rival to improve against. He was likely just running around bullying much weaker fighters his entire life.
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Makes sense to me.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
I think it's kind of implied that the Frieza Force constantly sends their men on missions, so there isn't much time to train or progress in-between their work. Elites like Zarbon and Dodoria have no real impetus to grow stronger, due to being comfortable in their positions among the Top 10 in the entire universe. You also have to note that Saiyans were considered the most elite and powerful warriors in the universe, so judging all of the other races in Frieza's army based on them is a tad ridiculous.
Hell, Goku, Vegeta and their kids are all 0.0001% of the Saiyan race, who are already considered the 1% of warriors in the universe so they are basically massive outliers.

The issue is why Vegeta didn't seem to grow much stronger over the course of his work in the Frieza Force. You can argue Nappa and Raditz just lacked the potential of Goku and Vegeta's lineages, but why wouldn't Vegeta get stronger from Zenkai boosting?

Considering that Vegeta's loss on Earth made him capable of stomping Cui and defeating Dodoria, I think the implication is that Vegeta just never lost a fight or had a rival to improve against. He was likely just running around bullying much weaker fighters his entire life.
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Yeah I don't think that he truly lost a fight until he fought Goku, he more or less was dominating weak fighters up until his he fought Goku from my understanding.
 
I mean, it's pretty much said Vegeta only fought weaker people and avoided stronger people like the Ginyu force, that's litteraly what does during the namek saga.
 
Dragomer said:
I mean, it's pretty much said Vegeta only fought weaker people and avoided stronger people like the Ginyu force, that's litteraly what does during the namek saga.
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Isn't this common sense tho? Why would Vegeta take on Freiza or the Ginyu forces if he knew he had no chance of coming out alive? Even Goku knows when to pull back.

Imo what Vegeta lacked was hard battles that put his life on the line, not fighting people who can 2 shot him.
 
ZERO7772 said:
Dragomer said:
I mean, it's pretty much said Vegeta only fought weaker people and avoided stronger people like the Ginyu force, that's litteraly what does during the namek saga.
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Isn't this common sense tho? Why would Vegeta take on Freiza or the Ginyu forces if he knew he had no chance of coming out alive? Even Goku knows when to pull back.
Imo what Vegeta lacked was hard battles that put his life on the line, not fighting people who can 2 shot him.
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Avoiding Freezer is common sense but the Ginyu, Dodoria or Zarbon was simply 'i never take on someone without having a massive power advantage'.

I doubt Guldo could one shot Vegeta.
 
About the 'furry drug' in DB Kakarot, Oolong mention that he is a full blooded beastman so not all furries were due to the drug, it's just that it was a fad for a while and now it's over so there aren't as much around but actual beastman still exist and are still around.
 
So I got a question. Goku supposedly got stronger after UIO1. He went from fighting SSJ2 Caulifla as a SSJ2 to fighting her in base. This implies he got 50-100x stronger than before, would this mean UIO2 is that much stronger than UIO1?
 
Goku didn't grow 100 times stronger.....

It's mentioned that he could fight her like that due to him being a superior martial artist not because he's stronger. Not to mention Caulifla catched up with him pretty quickly.
 
SS Cabba is as strong as SS Vegeta in the Universe 6 arc but:

  • Base Black scales to SS2 Goku and is stated to be holding back
  • Base Black stomps SSB Vegeta
  • Post-HBTC SSB Vegeta thrashed a much stronger SSR Black
Assuming this was purely consistent and Black was in base form, this means Vegeta grew at least over 5,000x more powerful after training in the Time Chamber. Even if we assume Black was using SSG's power in base form (Beyond God from the RoF film) that would still come to Vegeta easily becoming over 50x more powerful since he fought Cabba.

We have no reason to think Caulifa is massively stronger than Cabba, or for Cabba to have grown much stronger since he fought Vegeta. So Base Goku scaling to SS2 Caulifa is actually pretty reasonable.
 
ZERO7772 said:
Goku didn't grow 100 times stronger.....

It's mentioned that he could fight her like that due to him being a superior martial artist not because he's stronger. Not to mention Caulifla catched up with him pretty quickly.
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Base Goku was blatantly as strong as her no amount of skill can close that gap just look at Broly. Even then Base Goku being stronger than her SSJ2 state at the beginning of the tournament makes sense IMO. Especially since Base Vegeta one shot Monna despite Cabba needing SSJ2 to overpower her.
 
As for UIS scaling:

  • A heavily weakened Post-UIS Goku Blue managed to briefly pressure SS Kefla, who is stated to have power equivalent to the U7 Spirit Bomb (which should scale above Pre-UIS KKX20 Goku)
  • Post-UIS KK Goku Blue managed to hurt SS Kefla significantly
  • Vados believes a full power SSB Goku would be difficult for SS Kefla to defeat
Overall, Post-UIS1 Goku Blue seems to be about 20x more powerful than before.

  • Post-UIS2 Goku Blue managed to push Jiren harder than UIS1 Goku could
UIS is considered to be 'at least' 40x Blue, on the wiki. So Post-UIS2 Goku is at least twice as powerful as before, although it's worth noting that Goku's stamina had also recovered much more by this time.

Given the pattern above, it isn't wrong to claim Goku likely grew multiple times stronger after UIS3 and UI but either:

  • A) UIS is far more powerful than a 40x boost (Post-UIS1 Goku Blue scales to Pre-UIS1 KKX20 Goku whereas Post-UIS2 Goku Blue would only be twice as powerful if UIS = 40x Blue)
  • B) UIS gives diminishing power boosts after UIS1
So it's overall up to debate regarding UIS scaling and boosts.
 
Base Goku was blatantly as strong as her no amount of skill can close that gap just look at Broly. Even then Base Goku being stronger than her SSJ2 state at the beginning of the tournament makes sense IMO. Especially since Base Vegeta one shot Monna despite Cabba needing SSJ2 to overpower her.

It just to show that Cabba is a fodder and she-Goku is better tham him. Doesn't mean Goku grow 100 times stronger every time he sneezes.
 
Dragomer said:
'Doesn't mean Goku grow 100 times stronger everytime he sneezes

Look at the namek saga .....Yeah, sure.
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I-It's just a PIS I swear....

Real talk, even that wasn't a 100x time boost it was closer to 30 times when Zenkai was THE ****.
 
ZERO7772 said:
Dragomer said:
'Doesn't mean Goku grow 100 times stronger everytime he sneezes

Look at the namek saga .....Yeah, sure.
Click to expand...
I-It's just a PIS I swear....
Real talk, even that wasn't a 100x time boost it was closer to 30 times when Zenkai was THE ****.
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8000 to 3 million in just a bit of gravity work out and a fight, it's a 375 time boost and the 33 time boost was from getting his ass kicked once, the bulk of the increase was training and it's not like Goku didn't get his shit kicked in a lot in DBS, hell Black exploit it to even more bulshit height.
 
Doesn't mean Goku grow 100 times stronger every time he sneezes.
Yeah, we know thats just broly.


But goku does get ridiculous zenkais consistently.
 
So? You just mixed 6 days of training under 100x gravity and Goku getting almost killed and compared it to "Goku sneeze and get 100 times stronger"

Dragon balls power ups in genreal are inconsistent as hell with Vegeta getting a 6,000 boost from his first and second zenkai but magically getting a 500,000 boost from his third one. Same apply to goku.

I don't disagree with you that Goku get a lot of power-ups in most stupid ways and him getting 100 times stronger isn't out of the image, but nowadays every time a saiyan gets roughed up a little people start screaming "muh 5,000 times zenkai boost" which annoys me tbh.
 
Ovrhide said:
Doesn't mean Goku grow 100 times stronger every time he sneezes.
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Yeah, we know thats just broly.


But goku does get ridiculous zenkais consistently.

And DBS introduced 'limit breaking', which are Zenkai on steroid and without the need to be healed.
 
He sorta stopped getting Zenkais after that big one.

Does Kakarot explain why they stopped getting Zenkais?
 
BlastX said:
He sorta stopped getting Zenkais after that big one.
Does Kakarot explain why they stopped getting Zenkais?
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They never stopped having Zenkai, ever, we just stopped getting power level numbers so we don't know the details.
 
Pretty sure the DBS manga mentioned that they stopped getting zenkais long ago.

Of course, because in the anime everything is on steroid and taken up to 11 no such concept exist
 
IIRC the only kind of explanation was given by Future Trunks in the manga. He said that since Goku and Vegeta were always training to break limits even when they were already at their limits, they couldn't do it naturally anymore via healing.
 
ZERO7772 said:
Pretty sure the DBS manga mentioned that they stopped getting zenkais long ago.
Of course, because in the anime everything is on steroid and taken up to 11 no such concept exist
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Even the manga doesn't commit to it, they start getting zenkai by the next chapter, that's like when Vegeta had mentionned they were near their limit and it turned out to be bulshit.
 
They are always getting zenkais, and they have hit no limits. That shit was thrown out a long time ago. Even the broly recap states how they got stronger from the encounter
 
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